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  1. ses2017's Avatar
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    #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by kill_Dano View Post
    at one point tech becomes very biological-like. Ever go to the super market and look at fruit? Do you see people squeezing the fruit and checking which one is the one they like the most? Why would they do that? They all came from the same delivery day and possibly even the same tree. Some are alittle riper. Some a little bigger and more green. They are all prob around the same tolerance of ripe and green. there are no rotten ones or ones that have not matured yet.

    There are all in the same vicinity of being a good tomato. Some are great and some not as much. Same thing with CPUs

    Now if you want to get into the minutia of the CPU manufacturing process and what exact materials are the most influential to the tolerances and why this happens from a manufacturing process then let me assure you it is not a simple answer and this is prob not the best place to find info on that. The internet is a big place bud. Go poke around it.
    I can't agree with a process that is under such control and automation. I am still not seeing it in this analogy. CPU are made from a Die, and circuit boards, a blueprint. A piece of fruit can be beset by insects and pesticides. I don't see them as the same. What this string has done has blamed a malfunction on one specific variable, which is probably the least likely variable as logic goes. At what step in the process is the human error? The design of the Verizon and ATT Pre's, its components, etc, are identical save the cdma/gsm workings. And let's be honest, how many runs did Verizon have? One? (the had a larder of inventory). So the logical deduction is that each of those should perform close to identically. Last, I ran every patch from the UBER to the Blackbird. Never so much as a hiccup, no matter what revision. Now there is a problem?

    Lastly for my rant, people, members, posters come to this site, this very thread for answers. However, when they ask or state a position, they are condescended to by people who act in anonymity, in a very juvenile way. If the intent of the forums is to help people, be helpful in doing it. I get enough attitude and angst from my students. Being as such only deters from a healthy Palm community.
  2.    #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by kill_Dano View Post
    novacom boot mem:/ < C:\Users\dANo\uImage-2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430

    gives me "bad error response from ther side: 'err -1 bad command string'
    You missed a slash.
    Live free or DIE!
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by unixpsycho View Post
    Since -80 the min is always 500.

    Now i see the problem being the "weak" Pre's cant run 1.2gig reliably.
    ok right, now even when I tested it after the update to -80 in govanh it still listed my min to be 125mhz though, do you think that could be a issue, that the GOV still sets the kernal at a min of 125 by default regardless of the update to -80?
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    i just removed the file through preware, rebooted then applied the old f105. If your having issues with the rebooting loop, I got through it by first pulling the battery out plugging in the charger (so your phone clocks at 500mhz instead of 125mhz) put the battery back in let it reboot then once rebooted go right to govanh and set the min and max to 500/800 the first option, from there you should be fine to operate your phone and remove the kernal. This way worked for me without doctoring or pulling the image manually.
    That doesn't work for me. I must have a very very girly pre. I have tried to boot with touchstone (worked once) usb (never worked) and wall (sorta worked once... didin't have launcher many icons and no ability to universal search) oddly enough the phone seemed to be running at 1200mhz due to speed noticed. it was plug into the wall.

    I can only get it into bootie mode now (huge usb icon)
  5. #225  
    Running at 1.2gig on this SoC is pushing the boundaries as the CPU in spec can tolerate 1.5v up to 1.8 before you are just melting your phone literally. we are at 1.635v right now
    ( Unixpsycho )

    I think this is a sweet spot.
  6. #226  
    One thing that seems to be left out in this discussion is the fact that even if the CPU can handle 1.2Mhz or whatever, does not mean that all the other associated chips etc. can also handle the same speed. The RAM, ROM, I/O read and writes,etc., my not be up to the task to handle the same speed as the cpu...And yes often a manufacturer may use for instance differ ram chips across the same platform...as long as it meets minimum requirements...(doubt if they actually look at maximum requirements as much).
    Long story short...it can only be as fast as the slowest piece of the equation...
    ie...you have a 10Mbit network card attached to a 1G network....you'll only get the 10Mbits out of it........doesn't matter that the network can handle...if you are the slow dog, thats the way it is...
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by unixpsycho View Post
    You missed a slash.
    Got it. Looks like it's doing something now lol. I hate command lines. They are so whinny!
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by kill_Dano View Post
    That doesn't work for me. I must have a very very girly pre. I have tried to boot with touchstone (worked once) usb (never worked) and wall (sorta worked once... didin't have launcher many icons and no ability to universal search) oddly enough the phone seemed to be running at 1200mhz due to speed noticed. it was plug into the wall.

    I can only get it into bootie mode now (huge usb icon)
    ok right that happened to me a couple of times first, now take out the battery all together then plug your phone into the usb in your computer then put the battery back in and turn it on. let it run its course ( it may take a couple of times) once it comes back up everything on your last two or three pages will be in your first launcher so scroll down to the Govanah app, put in manual mode in preference, click on the the profyle on the start page then click the second option which is 500/800 you may have to do this fast so that the CPU on your phone dosent hicup and reboot you, if it does try it again. Once you set it at the 500/800 then go into preware and remove the kernal, you wont have any problems once you set it to those mins.
  9.    #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    ok right, now even when I tested it after the update to -80 in govanh it still listed my min to be 125mhz though, do you think that could be a issue, that the GOV still sets the kernal at a min of 125 by default regardless of the update to -80?
    Govnah has no idea if the selected freq is actually working. I gave the kernel a hysterectomy from 125 and 250. You have to look at the speed from the CLI to see what I'm talking about.

    No matter what you set the min speed to be it will always be ignored by the kernel.
    Live free or DIE!
  10. #230  
    On the use of Govnah with this, does the poll setting time only apply when Govnah is open or does this also poll when Govnah is closed? I changed the default setting of 5 seconds to 1 minute because I didn't know if this was polling readings while Govnah wasn't open.
  11. #231  
    Try running the kernel, without govnah and see what happen. Since -80 the min is 500mhz. Some phone doesn't work well at a lower frequency. I'm having no issue at all.
  12. #232  
    Hey, unixphycho what just happened when I booted like that? Did I overwrite the kernel? Did the Pre boot from that file on my PC and if I reboot it will load the rom(1.2ghz) kernel again?
  13.    #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by kill_Dano View Post
    Hey, unixphycho what just happened when I booted like that? Did I overwrite the kernel? Did the Pre boot from that file on my PC and if I reboot it will load the rom(1.2ghz) kernel again?
    It didnt overwrite anything. We use that method to boot up a kernel in case of build failure. If you reboot it will load the kernel installed on your phone.

    So since you booted fine now you can uninstall normally then reboot. You have just avoided the Doctor. Congrats.
    Live free or DIE!
  14. #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by ses2017 View Post
    I can't agree with a process that is under such control and automation. I am still not seeing it in this analogy. CPU are made from a Die, and circuit boards, a blueprint. A piece of fruit can be beset by insects and pesticides. I don't see them as the same. What this string has done has blamed a malfunction on one specific variable, which is probably the least likely variable as logic goes. At what step in the process is the human error? The design of the Verizon and ATT Pre's, its components, etc, are identical save the cdma/gsm workings. And let's be honest, how many runs did Verizon have? One? (the had a larder of inventory). So the logical deduction is that each of those should perform close to identically. Last, I ran every patch from the UBER to the Blackbird. Never so much as a hiccup, no matter what revision. Now there is a problem?
    The manufacture of semiconductor devices depends on the diffusion of gases and light particles/waves at sub-micron feature densities.

    A normal fab may have yields of 50% to 95% depending on the complexity of the device and the maturity of the process - the exact figures are a tightly kept commercial secret.

    All devices are tested as they come off the fab. But they are tested at 600MHz, and some fail at that speed. Others just make it. Other pass with 200% margin.

    Which one you get in your Pre is random.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 07/18/2010 at 06:45 PM.
  15. #235  
    Well I just opened up a glu game, jump o'clock to be specific and it played bloody gorgeously. It launched instantaneously and the gameplay was just super sweet.
    I also streamed some tv over my pre, lovely framerate.
    From these two cpu intensive activities my cpu temp did not jump over 45 at any time and was consistently at 41-43 degrees.
    I should be doing some battery testing tomorrow.
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    Well I just opened up a glu game, jump o'clock to be specific and it played bloody gorgeously. It launched instantaneously and the gameplay was just super sweet.
    I also streamed some tv over my pre, lovely framerate.
    From these two cpu intensive activities my cpu temp did not jump over 45 at any time and was consistently at 41-43 degrees.
    I should be doing some battery testing tomorrow.

    Cheers Mate.
  17. ses2017's Avatar
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    #237  
    So the position is that the devices have varying tolerances, so long as they are performing at this minimum spec? Logical, but that assumes A LOT of leeway in the production. I'm seeing then that the make of the Pre to be very sloppy. Given that, plus a release for Sprint (non-+) a release for Verizon/ATT, no wonder people are so down on Palm H/W being so bad. It's practically a crap-shoot to find out if your device is solid, or merely solid-ish.
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by ses2017 View Post
    So the position is that the devices have varying tolerances, so long as they are performing at this minimum spec? Logical, but that assumes A LOT of leeway in the production. I'm seeing then that the make of the Pre to be very sloppy. Given that, plus a release for Sprint (non-+) a release for Verizon/ATT, no wonder people are so down on Palm H/W being so bad. It's practically a crap-shoot to find out if your device is solid, or merely solid-ish.
    Moto droid uses an identical cpu with the same "sloppy" manufacturing. But that device was considered very well built. I'm pretty sure Rod's statement goes across the board, it wasn't specific for the pre.
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by ses2017 View Post
    So the position is that the devices have varying tolerances, so long as they are performing at this minimum spec? Logical, but that assumes A LOT of leeway in the production. I'm seeing then that the make of the Pre to be very sloppy. Given that, plus a release for Sprint (non-+) a release for Verizon/ATT, no wonder people are so down on Palm H/W being so bad. It's practically a crap-shoot to find out if your device is solid, or merely solid-ish.
    Are you serious? EVERY CPU is made with this way, whether it's an Intel Core i7 (you think they set out to make a chip that only reaches 2.66 GHz intentionally when they're making the 3.2GHz stuff?) or the OMAP3 SoC in the Pre. If it doesn't reach the higher speeds, they'll rate it at a lower speed.

    Honestly, you're making yourself look really ignorant here, so I'd suggest some research.
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by ses2017 View Post
    So the position is that the devices have varying tolerances, so long as they are performing at this minimum spec? Logical, but that assumes A LOT of leeway in the production. I'm seeing then that the make of the Pre to be very sloppy. Given that, plus a release for Sprint (non-+) a release for Verizon/ATT, no wonder people are so down on Palm H/W being so bad. It's practically a crap-shoot to find out if your device is solid, or merely solid-ish.
    There is nothing sloppy about it. The OMAP3430 works perfectly at rated specs.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals

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