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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Excellent. The long delay that used to happen when you hit Later is also related to the webOS 1.4 rescan bug.

    -- Rod
    I wondered if that might be the case. Nice to know. And great fix, as always!
    Blaize, Mistress of Verbosity



    Be nice until it's time to not be nice.--Dalton, "Roadhouse"
  2.    #222  
    Preware 1.0.4 is now in the testing feed.

    'Fixed deletion of disabled feed configs',
    'Fixed double execution of the post-install script',
    'Alternate install method to avoid webOS bugs',
    'No more rescan on remove',
    'Fixed relaunch blank screen bug',
    'Updated German and French translations'

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  3. #223  
    I was getting errors to download with preware, even preware itself.
    I unistalled preware using Quick install, when I looked to download the preware file to reinstall with Quick Install, the link does not work.
    Is this a temporay issue?
    Thank you
  4.    #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by romelarj@yahoo.com View Post
    I was getting errors to download with preware, even preware itself.
    I unistalled preware using Quick install, when I looked to download the preware file to reinstall with Quick Install, the link does not work.
    Is this a temporay issue?
    Thank you
    All blogs and forum posts related to Preware installation are obsolete.

    Always use http://install.preware.org

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Excellent. The long delay that used to happen when you hit Later is also related to the webOS 1.4 rescan bug.

    -- Rod
    Rod -- Just out of curiosity, what exactly is happening when webOS does it's rescan, and does bypassing that rescan cause any issues after installing anything via Preware? I am happy to bypass it so my phone doesn't crash, but just wondering what the repercussions were of doing it

    thanks again for all your work!
    Adam
    I am the creator of the PalmSpot entry “webOS Does, and Does, and Does Some More”, writes Save/Restore scripts and helps manage the script feed, and now writes webOS Nation's Tip of the Day

    Got a good tip for webOS Nation's Tip of the Day? Please send me a PM or use the Contact Us form and select "Suggest a tip"

    Like any of my work:
  6.    #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by Audemars02 View Post
    Rod -- Just out of curiosity, what exactly is happening when webOS does it's rescan, and does bypassing that rescan cause any issues after installing anything via Preware? I am happy to bypass it so my phone doesn't crash, but just wondering what the repercussions were of doing it
    Heh, you asked for it! Here's the nitty gritty details.

    To install a homebrew package, you need to unpack an ipkg file, and then optionally run a post-install script. Then you need to tell the webOS launcher that it should display a new icon.

    To remove a hombrew package, you need to optionally run a pre-remove script, remove the ipkg contents, and then tell the webOS launcher that the icon should be removed.

    Since Preware 0.0.1, we've been doing all those steps manually, calling the ipkg tool on the Linux command line, running the postinst and prerm shell scripts using /bin/sh, and calling the com.palm.applicationManager/rescan service method to notify the launcher of the change in applications.

    This worked fine, all the way up to webOS 1.4.0, where Palm introduced a subtle bug in the undocumented, unsupported (but the only way for us to notify the launcher of changes) com.palm.applicationManager/rescan service method. Instead of working out which applications are new or which have been removed, it seems that it just assumes that they are all new, and goes and forcibly terminates any running instances of the applications. This is what causes the phone, email and messaging applications to close and no longer provide notifications.

    Now, in webOS 1.3.5, Palm introduced an ApplicationInstallerUtility tool, which is called by the com.palm.appinstaller/installNoVerify service method, and which automatically notifies the launcher of any changes (so we no longer need to call the buggy rescan service method if we're using the installNoVerify service method to install the package).

    Note that Palm themselves probably no longer use the stand-alone rescan service method, which is probably the reason why it suffered from what is commonly known as bitrot (bugs creeping into unused code due to changes elsewhere).

    To use this installNoVerify service method, we had to repackage all of our ipkg files to use Palm's non-standard names for the pmPostInstall.script and pmPreRemove.script files. We started doing that before we released Preware 1.0.0, and this is what allows Preware to now be installed using the standard SDK palm-install tool.

    So, setting the "Avoid webOS Bugs" preference to "Yes" causes the Preware underlying package installation service to use the new installNoVerify service method instead of calling the ipkg tool directly.

    However (as we found out last night), the ApplicationInstallerUtility tool does not properly check for an error status returned by the pmPostInstall script, and is therefore not suitable for installing patches (because patch conflicts can only be caught in the post-install script, and if there is a conflict then the installation must be made to fail).

    So we then had to rebuild all the patches to exclude the pmPostInstall script, and update Preware to identify the case where there is no pmPostInstall script but there is an ipkg standard postinst script, and to run that postinst script manually even if the installNoVerify service method is being used to install the package.

    So we're not bypassing the rescan as such, we're optionally using a different installation vector which does a single package rescan automatically instead of a buggy global rescan.

    And that's it in a nutshell

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  7. #227  
    In a nutshell...whew!
    Blaize, Mistress of Verbosity



    Be nice until it's time to not be nice.--Dalton, "Roadhouse"
  8. #228  
    that's a darn big nut!
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Heh, you asked for it! Here's the nitty gritty details.

    To install a homebrew package, you need to unpack an ipkg file, and then optionally run a post-install script. Then you need to tell the webOS launcher that it should display a new icon.

    To remove a hombrew package, you need to optionally run a pre-remove script, remove the ipkg contents, and then tell the webOS launcher that the icon should be removed.

    Since Preware 0.0.1, we've been doing all those steps manually, calling the ipkg tool on the Linux command line, running the postinst and prerm shell scripts using /bin/sh, and calling the com.palm.applicationManager/rescan service method to notify the launcher of the change in applications.

    This worked fine, all the way up to webOS 1.4.0, where Palm introduced a subtle bug in the undocumented, unsupported (but the only way for us to notify the launcher of changes) com.palm.applicationManager/rescan service method. Instead of working out which applications are new or which have been removed, it seems that it just assumes that they are all new, and goes and forcibly terminates any running instances of the applications. This is what causes the phone, email and messaging applications to close and no longer provide notifications.

    Now, in webOS 1.3.5, Palm introduced an ApplicationInstallerUtility tool, which is called by the com.palm.appinstaller/installNoVerify service method, and which automatically notifies the launcher of any changes (so we no longer need to call the buggy rescan service method if we're using the installNoVerify service method to install the package).

    Note that Palm themselves probably no longer use the stand-alone rescan service method, which is probably the reason why it suffered from what is commonly known as bitrot (bugs creeping into unused code due to changes elsewhere).

    To use this installNoVerify service method, we had to repackage all of our ipkg files to use Palm's non-standard names for the pmPostInstall.script and pmPreRemove.script files. We started doing that before we released Preware 1.0.0, and this is what allows Preware to now be installed using the standard SDK palm-install tool.

    So, setting the "Avoid webOS Bugs" preference to "Yes" causes the Preware underlying package installation service to use the new installNoVerify service method instead of calling the ipkg tool directly.

    However (as we found out last night), the ApplicationInstallerUtility tool does not properly check for an error status returned by the pmPostInstall script, and is therefore not suitable for installing patches (because patch conflicts can only be caught in the post-install script, and if there is a conflict then the installation must be made to fail).

    So we then had to rebuild all the patches to exclude the pmPostInstall script, and update Preware to identify the case where there is no pmPostInstall script but there is an ipkg standard postinst script, and to run that postinst script manually even if the installNoVerify service method is being used to install the package.

    So we're not bypassing the rescan as such, we're optionally using a different installation vector which does a single package rescan automatically instead of a buggy global rescan.

    And that's it in a nutshell

    -- Rod
    I read that 4 times and still don't understand what the benefit is. Please, for the very novice of users explain the benefits of this.

    btw, it sounds like whatever you did took a lot of work. You guys accomplish things I could never even think of. I do know that it makes my Pre and Webos incredible to use. Thanks again.
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beach447 View Post
    I read that 4 times and still don't understand what the benefit is. Please, for the very novice of users explain the benefits of this.

    btw, it sounds like whatever you did took a lot of work. You guys accomplish things I could never even think of. I do know that it makes my Pre and Webos incredible to use. Thanks again.
    As I read it in its simplest form, Rod please correct me if I'm wrong, the benefit is to get around the bugs that crept into 1.4.0. The changes allow for a more stable user experience and less problems with functionality.

    And I'm sure it did take a lot of work, you only need to take a look at the constant alpha testing in this thread to see the scale of the work that is put in by Rod and webOS internals.
    Last edited by pip smith; 05/19/2010 at 10:06 PM.
  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    As I read it in its simplest form, Rod please correct me if I'm wrong, the benefit is to get around the bugs that crept into 1.4.0. The changes allow for a more stable user experience and less problems with functionality.
    Sounds good. Thanks. I guess that shows what I know, I haven't noticed any stability problems or any problems in general. I am a basic user and probably wouldn't notice. The point I am trying to make is that Preware works great for me.
    Last edited by Beach447; 05/19/2010 at 10:21 PM.
  12. #232  
    Another question and I apologize that this is way off topic, but I just have to know. What does "sticky" mean? Most specifically when it is in the title of these threads.
    Thanks
  13. SirWill's Avatar
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    #233  
    Actually it's more of they were using code in webos that is now essentially deprecated and no longer used. Palm came up with a better method for notifying the launcher of an icon change. Preware now uses that better method. The reason it is better is it is application specific instead of a global rescan of everything.

    Remember to do some of the things that a lot of homebrew apps do, requires the use of unreleased APIs, and unsupported / undocumented parts of the OS. Over time some of these APIs and sections of the code will be officially released, and over time some will be deprecated because they found a better way of doing something. Which is part of the reason why they were not released to begin with. When they make a change in the OS they notify developers of the change when it is in regards to official APIs and supported sections. They don't generally announce a change to the hidden unreleased sections of the OS.
    -----------------
    Palm III, Palm IIIc, TT, T3, T5, TX, Pre from Day 1.
  14. SirWill's Avatar
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    #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beach447 View Post
    Another question and I apologize that this is way off topic, but I just have to know. What does "sticky" mean? Most specifically when it is in the title of these threads.
    Thanks
    Sticky in regards to a thread means it will always show up at the top of the forum section above potentially newer posts. You will never find a sticky below non sticky threads.
    -----------------
    Palm III, Palm IIIc, TT, T3, T5, TX, Pre from Day 1.
  15. #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beach447 View Post
    Another question and I apologize that this is way off topic, but I just have to know. What does "sticky" mean? Most specifically when it is in the title of these threads.
    Thanks
    Haha. I think it comes from sticky note. Its because it is important or is a reoccurring thread generally. oif you go into one of the specific sub areas of the forum you will see all the stickys are at the top. The yellow colour and sticky name is there for users to identify threads of most use I believe.

    And I'm really not that knowledgable myself, I just try to help at what I can.
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirWill View Post
    Actually it's more of they were using code in webos that is now essentially deprecated and no longer used. Palm came up with a better method for notifying the launcher of an icon change. Preware now uses that better method. The reason it is better is it is application specific instead of a global rescan of everything.

    Remember to do some of the things that a lot of homebrew apps do, requires the use of unreleased APIs, and unsupported / undocumented parts of the OS. Over time some of these APIs and sections of the code will be officially released, and over time some will be deprecated because they found a better way of doing something. Which is part of the reason why they were not released to begin with. When they make a change in the OS they notify developers of the change when it is in regards to official APIs and supported sections. They don't generally announce a change to the hidden unreleased sections of the OS.
    Indeed, I was just trying to give the most simplistic answer. But this definitely is a great way to explain the the need to change the implementation. Maybe I was a bit over-simplistic, my bad.
  17. SirWill's Avatar
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    #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by pip smith View Post
    Indeed, I was just trying to give the most simplistic answer. But this definitely is a great way to explain the the need to change the implementation. Maybe I was a bit over-simplistic, my bad.
    Oh no, there is more than one way to say everything. Rod went detailed, you went simplistic (which is what was asked for), and I gave a middle ground type of answers. All is good.
    -----------------
    Palm III, Palm IIIc, TT, T3, T5, TX, Pre from Day 1.
  18. #238  
    They were all helpful in thier own way!! Thanks again
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirWill View Post
    Oh no, there is more than one way to say everything. Rod went detailed, you went simplistic (which is what was asked for), and I gave a middle ground type of answers. All is good.
    Well I guess we covered all grounds then, great teamwork from the three of us
  20. #240  
    Rod,

    All I can say is you rock. Your dedication to WebOS, especially since you are in a country that isn't even close to launching it, is amazing and you should be on Palm's payroll for all you do for it.

    That detail was perfect for a techy guy like me. Thanks for giving us a peak into the detailed analysis that you guys do to make homebrew successful.
    Former Sprint Treo 700p Owner, now Sprint Palm Pre- and HP Touchpad Owner.

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