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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by chowd View Post
    Yes. I have debian setup and installed. I followed this tutorial: Debian - WebOS Internals

    However, I did receive an error when trying to complete the last step of sharing the display: mount -o bind /tmp /media/cf/tmp. Mounting failed due to "no such file or directory."
    You need to do that from webos root, not the debian chroot. Once you run the last command before that addendumed command, "/usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf ", that puts you into the debian chroot.

    So either type exit, which takes you back to the WebOs root and then run it, or if you are starting from scratch do them in this order, I think.

    mount -o loop /media/internal/debsmall.img /media/cf
    mount --bind /dev /media/cf/dev
    mount -t devpts none /media/cf/dev/pts
    mount -t proc none /media/cf/proc

    then

    mount -o bind /tmp /media/cf/tmp

    then

    /usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf
  2. philbw's Avatar
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    #62  
    That is correct. All that binding /tmp does is allow you to use :0.0 for display instead of localhost:0.0

    Also, everyone having trouble with the window manager. Do either apt-get install fvwm or apt-get install icewm from within debian. Icewm will probably work best for most people. I'm modifying fvwm to work well on a touch screen, out of the box though it won't look like what you saw in the video.

    - phil_bw -
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbtrade View Post
    I too got stick at adding fvwm, I do have debian chroot setup and could ssh into another from that.

    I was looking at apt-get, is that the right direction?
    I went to the official fvwm website:

    FVWM - Download

    and looked for a debian based version. As expected, the compiled versions are specific for i386 machines.

    Does anyone have a version compiled for the pre hardware that they could share? I'm afraid I do not have much experience compiling in general and none for the Pre.
  4. philbw's Avatar
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    #64  
    use apt-get for everything, it'll automatically use the arm package from the repository

    - phil_bw -
  5. chowd's Avatar
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbtrade View Post
    You need to do that from webos root, not the debian chroot. Once you run the last command before that addendumed command, "/usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf ", that puts you into the debian chroot.

    So either type exit, which takes you back to the WebOs root and then run it, or if you are starting from scratch do them in this order, I think.

    mount -o loop /media/internal/debsmall.img /media/cf
    mount --bind /dev /media/cf/dev
    mount -t devpts none /media/cf/dev/pts
    mount -t proc none /media/cf/proc

    then

    mount -o bind /tmp /media/cf/tmp

    then

    /usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf
    Perfect! That worked for me. I had already entered your first four commands, but I re-entered them again and then added the last two to get to the debian chroot. To get back into debian after closing a terminal, I just entered your last two commands:

    mount -o bind /tmp /media/cf/tmp
    /usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf

    Then, I could use apt-get install icewm to add the window manager.

    However, I can't seem to use IceWM. When I launch the xorg server or xterm, I only see the gray hatched screen with the x cursor. If I type the icewm command into the debian chroot, I get this message:

    "IceWM: using /home.root/.icewm for private configuration files.
    IceWM: Can't open display :<none>. X must be running and $DISPLAY set."

    I must still be missing something.
  6. chowd's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by chowd View Post
    Perfect! That worked for me. I had already entered your first four commands, but I re-entered them again and then added the last two to get to the debian chroot. To get back into debian after closing a terminal, I just entered your last two commands:

    mount -o bind /tmp /media/cf/tmp
    /usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf

    Then, I could use apt-get install icewm to add the window manager.

    However, I can't seem to use IceWM. When I launch the xorg server or xterm, I only see the gray hatched screen with the x cursor. If I type the icewm command into the debian chroot, I get this message:

    "IceWM: using /home.root/.icewm for private configuration files.
    IceWM: Can't open display :<none>. X must be running and $DISPLAY set."

    I must still be missing something.
    I think I figured it out. I typed this command into the debian chroot:

    export DISPLAY=:0.0

    Then I typed icewm and the window manager came right up!

    Now is there a way to create a script that can enter these commands to automatically launch the window manager?

    mount -o bind /tmp /media/cf/tmp
    /usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf
    export DISPLAY=:0.0
    icewm
  7. #67  
    what about using matchbox instead of fvwm? its setup pretty well for embedded touchscreen devices and is in the debian repositories. I have it running on mine, and it seems alright from a first launch. I'll post a screenshot in a sec if I can.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by tedrampart; 04/10/2010 at 05:02 PM.
  8.    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by tedrampart View Post
    what about using matchbox instead of fvwm? its setup pretty well for embedded touchscreen devices and is in the debian repositories. I have it running on mine, and it seems alright from a first launch. I'll post a screenshot in a sec if I can.
    Matchbox is good stuff--it's what I have my setup using.

    It has a nice launcher similar to the pre's, and is pretty usable immediately like you said. One thing is that because it was designed for use with a stylus some of the buttons and whatnot can be a bit small, although that's probably relatively easy to change via config somewhere.

    Screenie's always welcome .
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  9. vreihen's Avatar
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    #69  
    This may be the stupid question of the day, but does anyone know what the maximum file size is on the USB partition? I was just trying to copy a ludicrously-large Debian chroot filesystem onto my Pre+, and the copy bombed with a write error suspiciously close to the 4GB mark.

    If there is a legitimate file size cap of 4GB on /media/internal, will this impact the current Preware plans that apparently call for putting X apps onto a loopback filesystem?????
  10. #70  
    I attached a screen.. just one thing, I noticed when I launched pidgin, is there were no toolbars, just a menu bar. does matchbox not have any window decorations? I've never used it before to be honest, I just remember it on the zaurus and some nokia handhelds..

    I guess this is what man pages are for.

    EDIT- biggest d'oh ever..

    seems I only ran the desktop, didn't see matchbox-session...my bad
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    This may be the stupid question of the day, but does anyone know what the maximum file size is on the USB partition? I was just trying to copy a ludicrously-large Debian chroot filesystem onto my Pre+, and the copy bombed with a write error suspiciously close to the 4GB mark.

    If there is a legitimate file size cap of 4GB on /media/internal, will this impact the current Preware plans that apparently call for putting X apps onto a loopback filesystem?????
    That is why our plans call for a fuse filesystem which is not a monolithic file loopback.

    -- Rod
  12.    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    This may be the stupid question of the day, but does anyone know what the maximum file size is on the USB partition? I was just trying to copy a ludicrously-large Debian chroot filesystem onto my Pre+, and the copy bombed with a write error suspiciously close to the 4GB mark.

    If there is a legitimate file size cap of 4GB on /media/internal, will this impact the current Preware plans that apparently call for putting X apps onto a loopback filesystem?????
    rwhitby answers the bit about how this affects our future work (it doesn't, or at least shouldn't if we do things right), but regarding maximum filesize, it IS 4GB--that's a limitation of fat. See File Allocation Table - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for more information.
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  13. chowd's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    This may be the stupid question of the day, but does anyone know what the maximum file size is on the USB partition? I was just trying to copy a ludicrously-large Debian chroot filesystem onto my Pre+, and the copy bombed with a write error suspiciously close to the 4GB mark.

    If there is a legitimate file size cap of 4GB on /media/internal, will this impact the current Preware plans that apparently call for putting X apps onto a loopback filesystem?????
    Well, I made my debsmall.img image 500 MB like the tutorial said, then quickly proceeded to wreck it by attempting to install Abiword. It apparently installed a ton of dependencies, which completely filled up my image. I think I'll have to reinstall now. This doesn't answer how big is too big, but it might say something about how small is too small.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by chowd View Post
    Well, I made my debsmall.img image 500 MB like the tutorial said, then quickly proceeded to wreck it by attempting to install Abiword. It apparently installed a ton of dependencies, which completely filled up my image. I think I'll have to reinstall now. This doesn't answer how big is too big, but it might say something about how small is too small.
    one thing you can try is removing the apt archives. I believe its:
    /var/cache/apt/archives
    thats where all the .deb's are stored. you don't need these really unless you do a lot of reinstalling of programs.

    rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*deb should do the trick. it will free up a lot of space
  15. vreihen's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by chowd View Post
    Well, I made my debsmall.img image 500 MB like the tutorial said, then quickly proceeded to wreck it by attempting to install Abiword. It apparently installed a ton of dependencies, which completely filled up my image. I think I'll have to reinstall now. This doesn't answer how big is too big, but it might say something about how small is too small.
    Well, thanks to Microsoft's influence in WebOS, apparently 8 gigs is too big!

    I'm going for 3.5 gigs now, and am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be enough for short-term tinkering. Every time that I have ever installed X on a Linux box in the past, there never seemed to be enough disk space free to actually use it.....
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by mamouton View Post
    Will we be able to use this on our Pre and a Windows Machine? I read the entire thread and see where it has the linux instructions. Just curios!!
    I hope this answers your question. The following scenario's should work fine:

    1. Run X server on your Windows desktop using something like the Cygwin/X server. Launch an X app on your Pre and display it on your Windows machine.
    2. Run X server on your Pre (what is being discussed in this thread) and run an X client app on Windows (cygwin also has X applications ported) and have it display on your Pre. I'm not sure why you would want to do this, other than because you can.


    An alternative to #1 is to use VNC. I believe you can use a VNC client on your Windows machine to connect to a VNC server running on the Pre and run native Pre X applications inside your VNC session.

    http://forums.precentral.net/webos-i...ml#post2352736
  17. #77  
    Just curious. From the screen shots, it seems like the approach for running an X server on the Pre is to run in "rooted mode" where the entire X desktop, including the window manager and all X applications, run within a single card. Has there been any consideration to run in "multi-window mode" where each X application essentially opens in its own card and Luna would act as the X window manager.

    See Configuring Cygwin/X - Windowing Modes for a better description than what I provided.
  18.    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by meandmypre View Post
    Just curious. From the screen shots, it seems like the approach for running an X server on the Pre is to run in "rooted mode" where the entire X desktop, including the window manager and all X applications, run within a single card. Has there been any consideration to run in "multi-window mode" where each X application essentially opens in its own card and Luna would act as the X window manager.

    See Configuring Cygwin/X - Windowing Modes for a better description than what I provided.
    Good question.

    Yep, we're definitely looking into making a rootless/multiwindow X. There a lot of barriers between what we have now and supporting that, but trust me it's on the TODO list.

    There a number of benefits to this--primarily centered on proper integration into the existing windowing paradigm---heck, we could even eventually have apps send notifications properly by hijacking libnotify/etc. There a lot of cool possibilities, and I'm excited about making them happen.

    HOWEVER--this is all VERY far off (much farther than our solution on bringing a functional set of X apps to you all), so keep that in mind and adjust your expectations accordingly.
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  19. #79  
    big thanks to developing this, its just incredible.

    I'm going to look at some stuff I remember fooling with when I used an openmoko. I remember illume and zhone could somehow work in a chroot debian.
    Debian - Openmoko gives me some ideas.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by dtzWill View Post
    Good question.

    Yep, we're definitely looking into making a rootless/multiwindow X. There a lot of barriers between what we have now and supporting that, but trust me it's on the TODO list.

    There a number of benefits to this--primarily centered on proper integration into the existing windowing paradigm---heck, we could even eventually have apps send notifications properly by hijacking libnotify/etc. There a lot of cool possibilities, and I'm excited about making them happen.

    HOWEVER--this is all VERY far off (much farther than our solution on bringing a functional set of X apps to you all), so keep that in mind and adjust your expectations accordingly.
    I certainly have no expectations for any time frames associated with volunteer development efforts. I do this for a living (well, I used to) so I know it's hard enough to make progress when you are getting paid to do it :-) Thanks again for the great effort.
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