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  1. #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    No you don't have to ;-)
    We are talking here about the quality of batteries.
    The battery life of the palm pre or pixi is a different story.
    ahh right. Well then I guess I just got lucky? Ha
  2. #342  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    Glad you got it working.



    You may still get some use out of it. The good news is that stock Pre batteries are pretty cheap. You can pick up an OEM Pre battery at Amazon for $8.45 (shipped), although the price has been fluctuating the past week or so.

    Ebay has Centro/Treo 800w batteries for only $3.56 and free shipping, they work fine in the Pre.


    Those are my kind of prices
    thank you for sharing that. Now that my internet is back up and running I'll be sure to browse for a new battery. You also mentioned treo/centro 800w battery compatible with the Palm, I wasn't aware of that. I learned something new. Thank you.

    I am still blown away by how drastic a change the getage and health of my battery is after calibrating.
    The guy over at the Verizon store where I got my phone is a really cool fella'. He said anything that happens to my phone at all,and I mean "anything" even after the 1 yr warranty and insurance expires that he would replace my phone,no questions asked. I'm thinking of seeing what I could do perhaps about getting a replacement battery... I just hope he keeps his job during that time, or until HP/Palm come out with a new phone hopefully.
    Pre|central Peacekeepers

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  3. #343  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoLLEmUp View Post
    You also mentioned treo/centro 800w battery compatible with the Palm, I wasn't aware of that. I learned something new. Thank you.
    Yeah, when the Pre first came out, the subject of using the treo & centro batteries came up. Palm had a bunch of different stories why it was "bad" to use the older batteries, but in my opinion, they wanted to sell new pre batteries. Every time the subject came up, you would hear a different reason why the batteries weren't compatible. There are some threads here where explanations really got to be ridiculous.

    There's a lot of real world testing that has been done. Many people have been using the centro batteries since the Pre came out with no problem. I used Dr. Battery to calibrate one of my old centro batteries and it behaved exactly as the Pre battery. The proper flags were set at the proper time and it was successfully calibrated.

    Still, if people aren't comfortable using them the OEM Pre batteries are cheap enough to make everyone happy.
  4.    #344  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    Yeah, when the Pre first came out, the subject of using the treo & centro batteries came up. Palm had a bunch of different stories why it was "bad" to use the older batteries, but in my opinion, they wanted to sell new pre batteries. Every time the subject came up, you would hear a different reason why the batteries weren't compatible. There are some threads here where explanations really got to be ridiculous.

    There's a lot of real world testing that has been done. Many people have been using the centro batteries since the Pre came out with no problem. I used Dr. Battery to calibrate one of my old centro batteries and it behaved exactly as the Pre battery. The proper flags were set at the proper time and it was successfully calibrated.

    Still, if people aren't comfortable using them the OEM Pre batteries are cheap enough to make everyone happy.
    Agree,
    and remember, the whole charging logic is in the battery chip.
    So if it has the same connection and same chip EDIT: and same voltage?

    EDIT: We need that new advanced scene in Dr.Battery with all readings of the EEPROM to compare ;-)
    Last edited by somline; 09/06/2010 at 11:20 PM.
  5. #345  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    Agree,
    and remember, the whole charging logic is in the battery chip.
    So if it has the same connection and same chip?

    EDIT: We need that new advanced scene in Dr.Battery with all readings of the EEPROM to compare ;-)
    Yep....looking forward to it! Dr. Battery is really a great app and I'm sure a lot of people will get some use out of it. It is one of those things that we've needed for a long time. You've done a great job with it!
  6.    #346  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    Yep....looking forward to it! Dr. Battery is really a great app and I'm sure a lot of people will get some use out of it. It is one of those things that we've needed for a long time. You've done a great job with it!
    Hopefully HPPalm will not remove the access to the interface in 2.0 because you all are wanting new batteries within the guaranty time ;-)

    For example: there are some security bits in the chip, if set you cant write to the registers any more e.g. to set VAE to a higher value for learning.

    EDIT: Thanks for the flowers ;-)
    Last edited by somline; 09/06/2010 at 04:41 PM.
  7. #347  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    Hopefully HPPalm will not remove the access to the interface in 2.0 because you all are wanting new batteries within the guaranty time ;-)
    It could be worse, they could hire Seidio to supply them with batteries.
  8. #348  
    somline you should be able to combine this app and service together into one package. See how some of the webos internals apps are put together like govnah and preware

    and when you are ready to open source, hop over to #webos-internals
  9. #349  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trekker View Post
    It could be worse, they could hire Seidio to supply them with batteries.
    lmao
    Pre|central Peacekeepers

    "Keeping the smart phone world at peace one PALM at a time"

    Me and Dropbox, sitting in a tree. S-Y-N-C-I-N-G. http://db.tt/qetBsiR
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  10. #350  
    Is there any such proof to the notion that battery drain is increased post calibration?

    my other question is this. Does the battery recondition itself after a calibration in any way?
    Pre|central Peacekeepers

    "Keeping the smart phone world at peace one PALM at a time"

    Me and Dropbox, sitting in a tree. S-Y-N-C-I-N-G. http://db.tt/qetBsiR
    Sign up and get 250mb of extra space FREE
  11.    #351  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoLLEmUp View Post
    Is there any such proof to the notion that battery drain is increased post calibration?
    In the IT we never say something is impossible but this time I will break with that:

    Even though I've read that mystery.
    It's impossible that your device drains more than before (because of calibrating). All you did was calibrating the battery. The app is not changing anything within the palm.
    I already tried to explain (in my english) that the x% drain will change since it calculates the drain in % of your (reported) capacity. If the capacity changes the drain % will change. You need to compare average drain in mA.

    I'll try another example:
    Say you have an average drain of 50mA.
    With a true 1150mAh battery this would be a 4,35% drain per hour or
    your device can run 1150mAh / 50mA = 23 hours.

    Now your battery reports only 80% Health = 920mAh
    Same drain 50mA would be 5,4% drain per hour or
    your device can run 920mAh / 50mA = 18,4 hours.

    Same drain but different % drain per hour

    my other question is this. Does the battery recondition itself after a calibration in any way?
    After calibrating the health was corrected. Now the battery is using it's implemented algorithm to estimate aging by counting charge cycles like before. Means your Health will get reduced by this estimating. So 1/2 year after calibration you may get a new 20drop0 problem and should recalibrate the battery again.
    I was ask before: I don't know a way to recondition this battery. I know there are charging devices available (for dump batteries) which are able do recondition batteries. I'm no expert in batteries. I just read the manual of the chip.
    Last edited by somline; 09/06/2010 at 11:23 PM.
  12. emt981's Avatar
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    #352  
    Thanks, went to Sprint and of course they took the phone in back to the tech, I had removed Preware and the patches, uberkernel and govnah. They replaced my battery no problem but did comment about having "mobile developer software" on it and that it would void the warranty, but the tech was overlooking it this time. I dont remember installing it nor could I find it. I think the rep up front may have meant that it was in developer mode. They also commented about it having wi-fi on and that draining the battery quicker. Time for the people at Sprint to learn that Palm is not like the others and they are endorsing the Preware/Homebrew community. Thanks again for the help and opinions on my problem. Keep up the great work.
  13.    #353  
    Quote Originally Posted by sczajka View Post
    ....They replaced my battery no problem but did comment about having "mobile developer software" on it and that it would void the warranty, but the tech was overlooking it this time.... Time for the people at Sprint to learn that Palm is not like the others and they are endorsing the Preware/Homebrew community. Thanks again for the help and opinions on my problem. Keep up the great work.
    Thanks for feedback. Congrats to your new battery. Good you removed that stuff because I forgot one thing to mention (really sorry about it)(EDIT: Good you didn't belief me;-):
    Overclocking voids the warranty. Because you are changing the physics of the device.
    Last edited by somline; 09/07/2010 at 06:38 AM.
  14. #354  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    In the IT we never say something is impossible but this time I will break with that:

    Even though I've read that mystery.
    It's impossible that your device drains more than before (because of calibrating). All you did was calibrating the battery. The app is not changing anything within the palm.
    I already tried to explain (in my english) that the x% drain will change since it calculates the drain in % of your (reported) capacity. If the capacity changes the drain % will change. You need to compare average drain in mA.

    I'll try another example:
    Say you have an average drain of 50mA.
    With a true 1150mAh battery this would be a 4,35% drain per hour or
    your device can run 1150mAh / 50mA = 23 hours.

    Now your battery reports only 80% Health = 920mAh
    Same drain 50mA would be 5,4% drain per hour or
    your device can run 920mAh / 50mA = 18,4 hours.

    Same drain but different % drain per hour


    After calibrating the health was corrected. Now the battery is using it's implemented algorithm to estimate aging by counting charge cycles like before. Means your Health will get reduced by this estimating. So 1/2 year after calibration you may get a new 20drop0 problem and should recalibrate the battery again.
    I was ask before: I don't know a way to recondition this battery. I know there are charging devices available (for dump batteries) which are able do recondition batteries. I'm no expert in batteries. I just read the manual of the chip.

    If I am ever in Germany I shall buy you a beer amigo
    I thank you for that brief explanation with examples.

    * Now this is solely based on what I have noticed. I'm very particular about the drain of my battery. Everyone uses their pre's differently, I know. I do like this app a great deal. It shows how much of a lie our stock pre batteries really are. For that I thank you somline and everyone else involved. *

    I wanted to share that I did experience some uncommon battery drain during idle, post calibration. I was losing 5-10% during the next 2 hours per 10-20 minutes after some extremely light use of the phone. Majority of the time was in fact idle. Still, I lasted a full late afternoon and evening up until around 9:35pm which included some youtube and break tv.

    When I got home and put my phone to charge at 2%.
    Now fully charged, my phone, after about an hour and a half has only drained 5%. This is where I referred to our batteries recondition themselves in other words after a calibration. Lets all look into that, if we can.

    ***EDIT*** I've edited this post now a few times, and in the last 40+ minutes, battery is at 94% Much better than what I experienced earlier in the day after post calibration.
    I must be crazy, but i tell it as I experience it.

    I am recommending this app to everyone competent enough

    Thank you
    Last edited by RoLLEmUp; 09/07/2010 at 03:00 AM.
    Pre|central Peacekeepers

    "Keeping the smart phone world at peace one PALM at a time"

    Me and Dropbox, sitting in a tree. S-Y-N-C-I-N-G. http://db.tt/qetBsiR
    Sign up and get 250mb of extra space FREE
  15. #355  
    I'm sure the calibration feature of this app is very useful for people with battery problems once it works and actually resolves the problem.

    But for me with a fairly good battery (1 year old; no problems) the calibration feature hasn't been as useful. I have never gotten it to work. I followed the procedures as closely as I could.

    1. Downloaded the app and service properly through Preware (with a Java restart after)

    2. Attempted first calibration (without resetting health.) I did everything exactly as instructed to begin the process, and it was calibrating until the charge level reach about 90%, then it failed.

    3. Let the battery fully charge and I reset the health from the app menu.

    4. Attempted second calibration as instructed and it failed at about 90% again.

    5. Pulled the battery.

    6. Attempted third calibration as instructed and it failed at about 90% again.

    The only thing I was able to do with this app is view the real health of the battery which was cool.

    But being unable to calibrate the battery, and the fact that I have reset the health attempting to work the calibration, means its harder to know how much power I have left because the values have changed (gives me 'phone will shut down soon' message at 0% instead of 5%) and I can no longer read the real health (because it was reset and I can't calibrate.)

    I would recommend advising people who do not have a battery problem not to attempt a calibration.
  16. Arpacon's Avatar
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    #356  
    A little background. Seidio 1350 battery. Let it drain and put on charger when prompted by Dr. Battery both times I've tried.

    First calibration failed, I believe around 90%. Reset Health.

    Second calibration failed. I had walked away for a while and when came back both top bar and battery state showed 100% health but a message flashing on calibration screen said calibration failed.

    I reset the phone and did a getfull40 getage and it showed 100% (1363 * 100 / 100).

    May still do another calibration including pulling battery and setting airplane mode.

    My question, and I've read thru this thread but didn't see this referenced, (my apologies if it was and I missed it) concerns the top bar vs dr battery battery state. Mine is showing different for each one, is this normal? For example, top bar shows 98% and dr battery real battery state shows 94%.
  17.    #357  
    Quote Originally Posted by UnExplanatory View Post
    The only thing I was able to do with this app is view the real health of the battery which was cool.

    But being unable to calibrate the battery, and the fact that I have reset the health attempting to work the calibration, means its harder to know how much power I have left because the values have changed (gives me 'phone will shut down soon' message at 0% instead of 5%) and I can no longer read the real health (because it was reset and I can't calibrate.)

    I would recommend advising people who do not have a battery problem not to attempt a calibration.
    Thanks for your detailed explanation and critique.

    did you follow the suggestion from Trekker and proofed from others to use the airplane mode and not using the device when calibrating?

    In next version of the app will be able to set the health to its original value. To do this now you can run this command from terminal or webosQuickInstall (sample is for 95%):
    EDIT: Needs the DrBatterySrv installed. If you don't know how to use it in webosQI I can giude you through.
    Code:
    luna-send -n 1 palm://de.somline.drbatterysrv/SetBatteryAGE '{'percentage':'95'}'
    Can you please tell me the "Manufacturer Rating" of your battery?
    I'm sorry for any inconvenience you had.

    EDIT2: I'm one person creating a free app, so I can't buy different devices with all kinds of batteries to test. This community is needed helping to make this app more stable.
    Last edited by somline; 09/07/2010 at 05:40 AM.
  18. #358  
    Quote Originally Posted by UnExplanatory View Post
    But for me with a fairly good battery (1 year old; no problems) the calibration feature hasn't been as useful. I have never gotten it to work. I followed the procedures as closely as I could.
    Did you put the phone in airplane mode? My first 2 attempts at calibration failed due to interruption until I put the phone in airplane mode, then it was successful.

    I tried a second old Centro battery, put the phone in airplane mode right away and it successfully calibrated on first try.
  19. #359  
    Quote Originally Posted by Arpacon View Post
    My question, and I've read thru this thread but didn't see this referenced, (my apologies if it was and I missed it) concerns the top bar vs dr battery battery state. Mine is showing different for each one, is this normal? For example, top bar shows 98% and dr battery real battery state shows 94%.
    That's normal for a stock Pre. You need to install the "show actual battery percentage" patch available via Preware. That will show the real percentage in the top bar.
  20.    #360  
    Quote Originally Posted by newman314 View Post
    somline you should be able to combine this app and service together into one package. See how some of the webos internals apps are put together like govnah and preware

    and when you are ready to open source, hop over to #webos-internals
    Thanks for the suggestion.
    I've looked at the code of preware. What I've found from that is that they are still using a service. This service is written in c and gets installed through the postinstall of preware.
    ATM it's not worth the effort for me since preware is handling the dependencies very nice and installs the service automatically.

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