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  1. #41  
    once again, great game.

    you'll have to listen to 'deactivate' event and to pause the game once the app is 'minimized'

    ohh, and if you intend to upload it to the app catalog one day, you'll have to rename the application and remove the 'pre' from it...
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by kayahr View Post
    As long as Palm is charging annual fees for app authors (Even if they create free software) I'm not going to put any app into their app catalog...
    Yeah, I completely understand and agree with you on that. Doesn't make any sense! Thank God for Filecoaster/Preware.

    I love watching software like yours evolve. Some feedback on others' comments- yes, using the keyboard for games really sucks (on most any game). In asteroids, the best solution might be to skip the accelerometer for the basic controls and go with the multitouch idea- having a touch areas:

    thrust ....................... fire
    .............. warp ...............
    left............................ right


    Of course, I am a fan of "choices", so it is always even better to have options so the user can choose keyboard, multitouch, or touch + accelerometer. My only real problem at the moment (other than using the keyboard) is that on higher levels with more items on the screen, it starts to slow down significantly.
    Last edited by crxssi; 01/02/2010 at 09:13 AM. Reason: ASCII art fix
    The power behind WebOS (and Android, and Maemo, and Google itself) is Linux!
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by palmpreacher View Post
    ohh, and if you intend to upload it to the app catalog one day, you'll have to rename the application and remove the 'pre' from it...
    Is that so? Ok, I wasn't happy with the name anyway (Playing Presteroids on a Pixi sounds wrong). So let's brainstorm for a new name. I have absolutely no idea.
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
    I love watching software like yours evolve. Some feedback on others' comments- yes, using the keyboard for games really sucks (on most any game). In asteroids, the best solution might be to skip the accelerometer for the basic controls and go with the multitouch idea- having a touch areas:
    I already tried accelerometer for ship rotation and it was impossible for me to control the ship. Playing it with keyboard is MUCH easier.

    Multitouch isn't working or at least I can't find out how to use it (See https://developer.palm.com/distribut...hp?f=11&t=4146).

    So my current plan is to let the user reconfigure the controls. For every action the user can choose a key, screen touch, pitch or roll (From the accelerometer API). The user could also define the pitch/roll ranges and dead zones. So if a user is able to really fly the ship with accelerometer he could use the phone in landscape orientation, could configure ship rotation to the "roll" value of the phone, configure a screen touch for accelerate and the space bar for fire.
  5. #45  
    I love your app but just a little tip.... may want to add control help in the app. I didn't read the install page and it took me like 5 minutes to figure out that I needed to pull out the keyboard for it to work and then another 2 minutes to figure out which controls did what. LOL Maybe as soon as it launches to have a help and start button. Just my two cents but keep up the good work!
  6. #46  
    Tudos on this very fine game! I love it already and i think it's got great potential. Here are some suggestions from my side:

    - I'd like to see the shield be recharged after each level (or a couple of levels). That way you wouldn't have to worry too much about small mistakes that can be very annoying sometimes (:. Also without the ability to recharge the shield there is really no point in using one at all. You could just use a stronger hull.

    - Alternatively to recharging the shield after completing a level you could randomy spawn little shield packages that you can pick up in order to restore your shield.

    - Other things like additional weapons or thruster upgrades could be made available in the same way. This would add a lot more variety to the gameplay.

    - I like your idea about multiple difficulty levels, especially the part where you would disable the automatic rotation throttle.

    - Here is something that i would really dig: Conservation of impuls. When you get hit by an asteroid the ship could be knocked around a little. Also the damage done on the ship could vary depending on the strength of the impact. When you destroy an asteroid it would also be quite nice if you would make sure that the overall impuls is conserved, meaning that when you hit a big asteroid moving towards you the resulting pieces would still move towards you. And what about a tiny recoil when you fire your weapon?
    Maybe as a physicist i'm getting a little overexcited here but i'd love the game to be a little more ... physical (:
    If you like (and if i have the time) i'll have a look at the code and see how i may be able to help.

    I know that all this is way beyond what the original asteroids game did but as one of the rare dynamic 2d games on webOS i'd like this game to reach its full potential. Maybe for reasons of nostalgia you could make two games: Asteroids Classic and Advanced Asteroids.

    Well, i think thats all for now (:
    Keep up the good work!
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Maggun View Post
    - Alternatively to recharging the shield after completing a level you could randomy spawn little shield packages that you can pick up in order to restore your shield.
    That's what I've planned. I think I'm using the UFOs for this. If they are destroyed they will drop some loot. The first drop I'm going to implement will definitely be some shield energy.

    - Here is something that i would really dig: Conservation of impuls. When you get hit by an asteroid the ship could be knocked around a little.
    I like this idea. Wouldn't be that difficult to implement. I just need to add a part of the asteroids velocity vector to the ships velocity vector when they collide.

    Also the damage done on the ship could vary depending on the strength of the impact.
    Another good idea. I may steal it, thanks

    When you destroy an asteroid it would also be quite nice if you would make sure that the overall impuls is conserved, meaning that when you hit a big asteroid moving towards you the resulting pieces would still move towards you.
    I already thought about that but decided against it. If the player shoots the asteroid before it nearly hit the spaceship then the spaceship will still get massive damage because the four smaller asteroids will most likely hit the ship directly after the large asteroid exploded. The player should be rewarded for preventing a collision by shooting an asteroid and the "Wow, that was close" feeling would not be there if the smaller asteroids always hit the spaceship after such an action.

    And what about a tiny recoil when you fire your weapon?
    The ship is outfitted with sophisticated recoil dampers which collect energy from the recoil and can convert the recoil energy into power for the next shot with an efficiency of 100%. Well, I think about it. But I think it really gets a little bit too much "physic" for such a simple game. It's not a space flight simulation (I tried to do this first with a simple 3D engine but the Pre really sucks at this (Got only 10 fps for a pretty simple scene)).

    Maybe for reasons of nostalgia you could make two games: Asteroids Classic and Advanced Asteroids.
    Don't worry, I'm not planning to write a fully compatible Asteroids clone. So cool ideas are always welcome.
  8. #48  
    I just need to add a part of the asteroids velocity vector to the ships velocity vector when they collide.
    That would be called inelastic collision. You could assign a mass to every object in the game (such as the asteroids and the spaceship) and then calculate the velocitys of each object after the collisions using the accurate formulas (:. You could also define the coefficient of restitution which determines how much of the energy is transformed to heat and deformation energy (thus damage to the ship). You could even give some momentum to the shots from the spaceship and the ufos.

    If the player shoots the asteroid before it nearly hit the spaceship then the spaceship will still get massive damage because the four smaller asteroids will most likely hit the ship directly after the large asteroid exploded.
    Actually thats what i liked about the idea. You'd have to give more thought to whether you should rather get out of the way instead of just shoot the damn thing. Maybe that would be a possibilty for the higher difficulty levels.

    But I think it really gets a little bit too much "physic" for such a simple game. (about the recoil)
    Shouldnt be too hard to implement though and it would be kind of cool (:

    The great thing about all that is that it could all be (relatively) easily achieved by extending the game engin with the relevant methods for the conservation of momentum. I could help you out with the physics if you want me too (:
  9. #49  
    Hey kayahr, thanks for a great app. I've been really enjoying it. I would just like to add support to some of the previous ideas being offered.

    I have seen many people arguing about that the firing of lasers would cause a loss of forward momentum. Photons don't have mass, but have negligible momentum, therefore would not alter the ships momentum significantly enough to warrant adding it to this game.

    However, I like the idea of asteroid impacts knocking the ship around, or causing less damage based on angle/speed of impact. Also that wouldn't be too difficult to work out.

    I love the idea of having a recharging shield for completed a level. Say 10% each level, that would mean every 3 levels you can take a small asteroid hit yes?

    Also here is some idea for UFO death droppables:

    - Homing/Non-Homing missile, that homes into largest target. So maybe it could completely destroy a large asteroid, and its 4 smaller bits in one go.
    - +50% insta-shield drop?
    - 5 seconds of invunerability drop?
    - Maybe if you could overcharge the shield? For instance if you have 100% shield, and get an +50% shield drop. That would give you 150% shield, which you would slowly lose 10% every level, until it went <= 100%.
    - Repair 50% hull?
    - Maybe a fighter drone, that would circle your ship and fire at asteroids. Nothing complex just a sphere that goes around your ship. Maybe if you were in danger of getting hit by something, it would take the hit for you.
    - Maybe a droppable mine, that would float in space until it was hit by something, and the mine would have the same momentum as you when you drop it, so it would wrap around the screen?

    I very grateful for your speedy turn-around with the updates. Keep up the good work.
    Last edited by phufbq; 01/05/2010 at 04:13 PM. Reason: I messed up.
  10. #50  
    I have seen many people arguing about that the firing of lasers would cause a loss of forward momentum. Photons don't have mass, but have negligible momentum, therefore would not alter the ships momentum significantly enough to warrant adding it to this game.
    Depends on the energy of the laser, but essentially right
    Last edited by Maggun; 01/14/2010 at 05:33 PM. Reason: you're welcome...
  11.    #51  
    I just published version 0.0.8. Only difference is that you can now change the controls in the preferences screen.

    You can configure left, right, thrust, fire and menu. Each of these actions can be either mapped to a key (All keys except the Orange key are available), a tap on the screen (No multitouch support because it looks like there is no JavaScript API to work with multitouch yet...) roll left/right and pitch up/down (accelerometer).

    Additionally you can configure the range and the dead zone used by the accelerometer support. So if you define a roll range of 45 degree, then a roll of -22.5 degree will rotate the ship to the left with 100% power. -11.25 degree rotates the ship to the left with 50% power. +22.5 degree rotates it to the right with 100% power. I think you got it. The dead zone defines the range where values are ignored. 5 degree means that the range from -2.5 degree to 2.5 degree is handled as 0 degree.

    Accelerometer is usable in all four screen orientations. Using pitch only makes sense when you put the phone flat on your desk because that's the "0-position".

    Let's see what you guys make of this. My opinion is that playing this game with accelerometer sucks completely. I'm so glad the Pre and the Pixi has a real keyboard. And I'm so disappointed that multitouch isn't usable in JavaScript (Or at least it is completely undocumented).
  12. Daemon's Avatar
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    #52  
    You're right that using the accelerometer is a bit wacky.
    When using the keyboard the automatic rotational
    braking is quite effective, but with the accelerometer and a small
    dead zone, it's much harder to get it to stop rotating consistently.
    I found I ended up having to do much of the braking myself, and rarely
    could stop where I wanted.

    I found that increasing the dead zone from 5 degrees to 10 degrees helped
    a lot as I could return to the braking zone much easier.
    That got me into level 3 at least. But I'm curious about something.
    Does the dead zone move the zero points of the map of
    degrees of roll to % of rotational thrust? I'm getting the strong
    impression that the map is still always starting at zero degrees of rotation,
    so when I get to the edge of the dead zone it jumps directly to a larger
    turn rate. Thus, the larger the dead zone, the harder it is to do any sort
    of small turn correction. I think the map should always start at the edge of
    the dead zone and reach to the max degrees. That'll make the curve
    steeper, but means you can make finer turn corrections right at
    the edge of the dead zone, while still having a nice large braking zone.

    BTW, if you want an idea of unadulterated inertial navigation, try
    max degrees of 45 and dead zone of 0 degrees, and then just try
    flying around between the asteroids with thrust and minor turn
    corrections (with no automatic turn braking). It's kinda fun.

    In fact, I've just found that increasing the max rotation to 90 degrees
    and dead zone to zero, makes it fairly playable overall. It's still
    doing a little automatic braking but I can also brake it myself with
    more precision. Made it to level 6 that way.

    isn
  13.    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    I'm getting the strong
    impression that the map is still always starting at zero degrees of rotation,
    so when I get to the edge of the dead zone it jumps directly to a larger
    turn rate.
    You are right. I'll fix it.

    In fact, I've just found that increasing the max rotation to 90 degrees
    and dead zone to zero, makes it fairly playable overall. It's still
    doing a little automatic braking but I can also brake it myself with
    more precision. Made it to level 6 that way.
    Impressive. I tried it and I made it into level 2 but just because I destroyed the two initial asteroids by collision Well, but that's why I implemented the control configuration. If others are able to play the game like this, they can do it now. I'll fix the dead zone and I think I will also add a switch to disable the "automatic turn brake". I don't see anything else I can improve in game control. Next steps will be looking into some of these physics ideas of Maggun and then implement some UFO drops.

    I still need a new name for the game. "Presteroids" will now be the name for the alpha version and will be dropped when the first beta comes out. Currently only the following suggestions were made: "distroids" and "disteroids". My own favorite is a derivative of it: "destroids". This word is a mix of "destroy" and "asteroids". Any other suggestions?
  14. psm9's Avatar
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    #54  
    Love this app! and I really like the new accelerometer controls.. Can't wait to see the updates.

    I've had a weird problem that has hapenned consistently.
    The app plays great and minimizes and maximizes fine, but when I minimize it and try to throw the card away, the screen refreezes and the phone restarts (It's quick, so probably just a Luna restart).

    Anyone else had this?
    Palm V -->m505 -->Tungsten T3-->T5->Centro-->Pre!
  15. #55  
    Great game. Little hard to control with the accelerometer, but so is the small keys on the phone.

    I am happy with where the game is now, will be looking forward to seeing what is to come. Thanks for the great game!
  16. #56  
    I really like this game, although I still long for a feature-by-feature port of the old PalmOS game Rocks, with hyperspace, occasional doubled fighter ships and so forth. (Wonder if it'l run in Classic? Gotta dig out the PRC and try that.)

    Count me as a vote for Destroids. {Jonathan}
  17. #57  
    Like what has been done so far!!
  18. krid's Avatar
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    #58  
    I'm really impressed with the work you've done on this, and I'm amazed at the number of releases -- I wish I could find that much time to spend on Keyring. I'm also pleased that you've released it under the GPL. I've been kind of disappointed at how few open source apps there are on webOS. Thanks for giving us this great game.

    I have a suggestion for an alternate method for accelerometer control. I find it really hard to mentally map tilting to rotation, so I always end up with the ship spinning out of control. My natural tendency is to tilt the phone in the direction I want the nose of the ship to go. When the nose is pointed up, tilt maps to rotation, but once the ship has rotated past 90 degrees, the mapping is wrong, and I get discombobulated.

    So, I'd like to have a control option that would fire the jets such that the nose of the ship would move towards whatever side/corner of the phone is down. I think of this as "gravity control". Yes, this is different from traditional Asteroids, but I don't really care -- I sucked at Asteroids back in 1980. On the other hand, I could actually make the (daily) high score on Omega Race, which had a spinner knob. I think that the gravity control would be the closest thing to the spinner knob.

    I have a delusion that I could someday take the presteroids engine, and use it to implement a crude version of Omega Race. That will probably never happen unless I lose my job, but a guy can dream...
    Author of Keyring for webOS - Easy password management on your phone

    Get Keyring :: Keyring website :: Keyring desktop client :: Keyring bugs :: Desktop client bugs

    Like what I've done with Keyring? Hire me!
  19.    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by krid View Post
    So, I'd like to have a control option that would fire the jets such that the nose of the ship would move towards whatever side/corner of the phone is down. I think of this as "gravity control".
    So you suggest to control Presteroids like Toppleball? So the autopilot of the space ship should try to point the ship into the direction the ball in Toppleball would roll? This sounds interesting.

    Yes, this is different from traditional Asteroids
    I think that's ok, as long as the velocity vector is not changed by the gravity control. So to brake the ship you have to use the gravity control to rotate the ship by 180 degree and then start the thruster. I really like that.

    When I find out how to detect touches in the gesture area and these touches have nothing to do with a touch on the screen (Reminder: No chance to use multitouch in JavaScript yet) then the game could even be played without any keys. Press the gesture area to fire and press the screen to thrust.

    I'm going to invest some time into it. If this works I think this could even become the default control scheme of the game (Which automatically switches to keyboard control when one of the control keys is pressed)
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by mamouton View Post
    I am not a programmer but I love the classic games as well, any chance of getting space invaders?
    We now have Classic Invaders!

    - Craig
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