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  1. grepper's Avatar
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       #1921  
    I'll let you know. Just hard to find time.

    My current plan to to finish things up and then release two new versions
    FriendsFlow (still $1.99)
    and
    FriendsFlowFree (ad supported)

    Either the next beta version or the one after that will work if you haven't purchased but will display ads.

    (I haven't even started working on the ads. I'm still trying to get the split notifications (for fb notifications vs status updates) to work right.)
  2. squeff's Avatar
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    #1922  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    I'll let you know. Just hard to find time.

    My current plan to to finish things up and then release two new versions
    FriendsFlow (still $1.99)
    and
    FriendsFlowFree (ad supported)

    Either the next beta version or the one after that will work if you haven't purchased but will display ads.

    (I haven't even started working on the ads. I'm still trying to get the split notifications (for fb notifications vs status updates) to work right.)
    This is your project, so I don't want to second guess you. However, I do wonder...

    What are you looking to accomplish with an ad supported version? I think that with the Palm version being free, many people will go with it simply because it's free. However, many of these people are likely to be the sort that will argue "Palm's version doesn't have ads, so why does FriendsFlow?"

    I think there needs to be a compelling reason to go with an ad-sponsored version. Unless it blows the Palm version away, and it's obvious from reviews, people will opt for the totally free.

    The same can be said for the paid version, although I happen to think that there is a different "psychology" there. For example, I'm happy to pay for a quality product, but I find that ads (unless very skillfully done) make a good product seem junky. That's me. Someone else might not want to pay (or can't) and would deal with the ads just to get it free.

    But, and here's my point, if there is a third option that's free and has no ads... how can you compete? Answer: if your product is obviously better.

    So, and this is only one man's opinion, I think working on a classy looking product that does things that Palm's doesn't is the way to go. Trying to offer a product that offers only slightly more than Palm's, but with ads, isn't likely to attract too many. (I admit, I'm selfish because I, as a paid customer, will benefit from an improved product, but I won't from an ad-supported product).

    There is one benefit to an ad-supported (free) product: it lets people try your product in order to tell if they like it. Once people see that your product is better, they might be willing to upgrade to the pay version. That said, your product still needs to be better, look better, and be obviously better than Palm's. (Are you detecting the theme here?)

    In other words, an ad-supported product makes good trialware. But so does a time limited demo. Yes, you'll get ad revenue during the trial. Question is, will the revenue you get be enough to outweigh the time spent on maintaining two versions, having to figure out how to do the ads, etc.? Only you can know.

    Anyway, sorry if I'm telling you something that you've already thought about.
  3. grepper's Avatar
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       #1923  
    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post
    This is your project, so I don't want to second guess you. However, I do wonder...

    What are you looking to accomplish with an ad supported version? I think that with the Palm version being free, many people will go with it simply because it's free. However, many of these people are likely to be the sort that will argue "Palm's version doesn't have ads, so why does FriendsFlow?"
    Why? Because I want to make money or I will stop working on the project.

    Why should they use FriendsFlow instead of Palm's? I think that has been answered several times in the past several pages of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post
    I think there needs to be a compelling reason to go with an ad-sponsored version. Unless it blows the Palm version away, and it's obvious from reviews, people will opt for the totally free.
    I completely disagree. I believe they will try an ad supported version, what do they have to lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post

    The same can be said for the paid version, although I happen to think that there is a different "psychology" there. For example, I'm happy to pay for a quality product, but I find that ads (unless very skillfully done) make a good product seem junky. That's me. Someone else might not want to pay (or can't) and would deal with the ads just to get it free.
    That's why I'm offering both versions. They are targeting different customers. You are willing to pay, you did, and you won't see ads.

    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post


    But, and here's my point, if there is a third option that's free and has no ads... how can you compete? Answer: if your product is obviously better.
    Which, based on what people have said, it is. It needs some bugs fixed, but it clearly offers functionality not offered by Palm's facebook app.

    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post

    So, and this is only one man's opinion, I think working on a classy looking product that does things that Palm's doesn't is the way to go. Trying to offer a product that offers only slightly more than Palm's, but with ads, isn't likely to attract too many. (I admit, I'm selfish because I, as a paid customer, will benefit from an improved product, but I won't from an ad-supported product).
    I don't understand what you are trying to say here? The two products will be identical (or the paid version may have extra features.) I'll spend a few hours to make the ad supported version ad supported, and then I'll have more incentive to make my product better.

    Based on the number of sales recently, I would probably stop development after this next release otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post

    There is one benefit to an ad-supported (free) product: it lets people try your product in order to tell if they like it. Once people see that your product is better, they might be willing to upgrade to the pay version. That said, your product still needs to be better, look better, and be obviously better than Palm's. (Are you detecting the theme here?)
    Absolutely. There are two benefits of having an ad supported version:
    1. For users who are light facebook users who who think it is "wrong" to charge for a facebook app, I can make some money.
    2. For users who want to try FriendsFlow before they buy it, they can use the as supported version for a while and decide if it provides $2 of value.

    Actually there is a third benefit. I assume I will get paid in a more timely manner. I still haven't even been told by palm how many downloads there have been or what I will be paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post

    In other words, an ad-supported product makes good trialware. But so does a time limited demo. Yes, you'll get ad revenue during the trial. Question is, will the revenue you get be enough to outweigh the time spent on maintaining two versions, having to figure out how to do the ads, etc.? Only you can know.
    There's a huge portion of the population who never ever wants to pay for an app.

    It will probably take me a few hours to stick an ad at the bottom of the app. Other than commenting that code out, there will be no difference between the versions. (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post

    Anyway, sorry if I'm telling you something that you've already thought about.
    I've considered it. I KNOW that very few people are buying the app at this point. This is another business model which won't take too much work to try out. If it works and I can make money, then I'll continue developing. If people object to a little ad at the bottom of the page and don't use it then I'll probably stop developing.

    I have lots of other things to do with my free time, and very little free time. If I can't make money off this project then I will fix bugs and answer support e-mails but otherwise stop development. Ask yourself, would you continue going in to work if they stopped paying you (or paid you $12/day.)
  4. #1924  
    Sorry to hear your sales are so poor. Hopefully with the release of the Pixi yesterday, there will be a greater WebOS userbase which can only help you. Seriously, that Palm Facebook app is worthless. And quite frankly, I think PalmBook isn't so hot itself. I choose yours out of the 3 any day. The more features you get in yours, the more people will want yours over the free ones. Even if you could get us into our inbox to read messages even though you've said we couldn't respond due to the API, I think that would be huge compared to the other apps.
  5. #1925  
    Quote Originally Posted by volcom45 View Post
    Sorry to hear your sales are so poor. Hopefully with the release of the Pixi yesterday, there will be a greater WebOS userbase which can only help you. Seriously, that Palm Facebook app is worthless. And quite frankly, I think PalmBook isn't so hot itself. I choose yours out of the 3 any day. The more features you get in yours, the more people will want yours over the free ones. Even if you could get us into our inbox to read messages even though you've said we couldn't respond due to the API, I think that would be huge compared to the other apps.
    +1 for sure. Been using it since early beta! Still the FB best app in my opinion.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  6. #1926  
    Quote Originally Posted by Achill3s View Post
    +1 for sure. Been using it since early beta! Still the FB best app in my opinion.
    +2
    Juan

    2010-2011 Champions!

  7. squeff's Avatar
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    #1927  
    Grepper, you totally missed what I was saying. But that's my fault.

    However, given that you're so tired and, frankly, bitter about the whole experience, I'd suggest that you give it up. Don't come here or anywhere else that people are going to comment on your work.

    If you're not having fun, and can't commit to making this a business, then there is no reason to aggravate yourself, or your family.

    I was trying to make observations, from someone that's been with you since the earliest releases here, as well as someone who purchased your product to support you. It sounds like you're just too sick of the whole thing, so I think you need to take a step back. If you're not having fun, why bother?

    By the way, FriendsFlow has had 3748 downloads from the catalog.
  8. #1928  
    I've made good progress in a new theme but so far it is text, color and border styles. I see no way to style images other than the profile pics in the feed view. I want to make app icons smaller and place the text to the right of the image instead of below it and wasting all that space to the right. Link thumbnails seem to be ok. I haven't seen one yet I'd wanted to shrink down and I'm thinking it would be better to wrap text around them as well. Photo posts in the feed is in need of the most polish. It would be best to either have a single thumbnail and the x new photo text to the right or up to three thumbnails in a single row with the x new photo text above or below. The problem is I don't see any existing code in FF to model the changes after. So I don't know if there has to be new code added to provide for them to be objects styled in the CSS or if i just need to know what name to put in the <> to create a new .<element> {} object for them.

    The view that comes up after clicking a post in the feed I don't see any styling for the name of each person who left a comment, the date and time the comment was made, and the enter comment here object. I want to make the enter comment here object to look as it does when it is active and ready to enter text except for the blinking cursor that indicates it is active for text entry. That way it looks like an object and the cursor is the indicator to the users if the box is selected for text entry. It would appear the size of text for comments, it's person's name, the comment date/time, and the enter comment hint are (can be) all styled by a single font size specified in .postmaindiv {}. However I would like to specify each separately but I don't think there are code segments in the CSS for them like there are for the post commented on, the name of the poster, and the date/time it was posted. It appears something is doing some formatting though, because the name of each person who comments is light bluish purple and the date appears to be bold text.

    Also a black line is generated between each comment and between the first comment and the item commented about. However it changes to a much nicer beveled line (is that the right term?) that extends to about 7 or 8 pixels from each side of the screen. I would like that to be the separator no matter how many comments there are. Right now the beveled line only appears if you have to click show more comments button and only between comments no line of any kind is between the first comment and the post after clicking show more comments.

    Lastly loading your feed and show 30 more items things I think would be better if they aren't done as if they are a feed item. I never really gave them any thought before now but after seeing the palm facebook app do like the web browser and have the refresh icon turn to the spinner which is also what tweed does when it is loading your tweets I realized it is much better looking that the big spinner thing. I see no reason to display words about loading feed. The show more items thing I think would look nicer as a button that is 40% the width of the screen and centered. I can make all this happen as long as I have some details to go on to write up the code. I lack certain knowledge of how the CSS interacts with the rest of the apps code to do what it does. In other words how do you know what the the names for each .<element> {} segments are and what they style? And how do you go about making a new thing to be styled in the CSS? The answer to those two questions I think will help me a lot in making FF as visually stunning as possible.

    I'd be willing to help in other aspects as well once done with visual aspects. I believe there may be some small coding additions or changes outside of the CSS to make all the visual things possible.
    Last edited by StoneRyno; 11/16/2009 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Adding a final thought about non visual related coding
  9. #1929  
    I'm not sure if it is just me, however i cannot check notifications after the last 1.3.1 update. I press the notifications button at the bottom of the screen and my whole application freezes. Also, when i use the black theme, i can't respond to any posts, it says something like user not recognized. Anyone else having problems?
  10. #1930  
    Kudos to the developer of FriendsFlow. It is much better than the Facebook for Palm app.
  11. #1931  
    Adding to my previous post in the notifications list view the notification titles doesn't appear to have a code segment in the CSS to use to reduce the font size unless I'm just overlooking something but I have tried a number of segments and ran out of logical ideas as to which one if any in the CSS style it. I would appreciate any pointers anyone can give to help me figure out this and the other styling things I posted about.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexlevy117 View Post
    I'm not sure if it is just me, however i cannot check notifications after the last 1.3.1 update. I press the notifications button at the bottom of the screen and my whole application freezes. Also, when i use the black theme, i can't respond to any posts, it says something like user not recognized. Anyone else having problems?
    There are two things you can do to get the notifications back. The same thing happens with tweed and I assume other apps that do periodic checks and notify such as these do. Toggle off the app's notification settings, close the app, and then toggle them back on. If you still aren't getting notifications, turn off the app's notification settings, close the app, reboot the device, turn the settings back on, close the app, and reboot the device. If you still aren't getting notifications then something more serious is occurring.
  12. #1932  
    Any updates coming down the pipeline to solve the notifications issue? Would be pretty cool.
  13. #1933  
    I'm sorry maybe I wasn't clear in my earlier post. The notifications tab on the bottom of the page that takes you to another page where you can swipe away comments is not working. The app freezes when i click the notifications tab and i have to close the entire app. Everything works until i hit that button. I tired to delete the app and reinstall it. Power off the phone and still nothing works. I liked the ability to check comments and swipe away them after i read them but i can't even get to the screen anymore. Any help?
  14. grepper's Avatar
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       #1934  
    Update:

    I have a version almost ready to release which has the following properties:
    Good:
    I have a version almost done which let you select to be notified about status updates, notifications, or both.
    If you are whitelisted you will not see ads, if you are not white listed you can use the beta but you will see one ad at the top of your screen.

    Bad:
    I can no longer detect if you have the paid version (at least in the way I was before) see the sandbox part of the following Quick Reference – webOSdev – Palm
    I can't reproduce the notifications bug. It works fine for me. I'm guessing you have a notification about some specific application I don't have any notifications about. Can those of you who are having trouble tell me what type of notifications you have?

    I'll probably upload the new version tonight or tomorrow. Or soon. We'll see.
  15. grepper's Avatar
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       #1935  
    edit: Oops double post
  16. grepper's Avatar
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       #1936  
    Oh, PS, everyone who used the beta before 1.3.1 was AUTO-whitelisted. So it is only new users who buy the paid app and then want to use the beta who I can't add to the whitelist.
  17. grepper's Avatar
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       #1937  
    Question:

    How do people feel about the beta program optionally (a preference) sending me debugging info whenever it detects a problem. Currently it just runs Mojo.Log.error (which actually does nothing on your phone because logging is turned off.)

    I could fix problems much faster if every time _your_ phone had a problem I knew about it, but it would probably send me some information about your facebook account. (Which, obviously, I wouldn't read or use other than to fix the bugs.)
  18. #1938  
    I guess that would depend on what information would be sent from Facebook (personal? Data usage? etc) Do you know what type of data would be sent back?
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  19. diomark's Avatar
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    #1939  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    Question:

    How do people feel about the beta program optionally (a preference) sending me debugging info whenever it detects a problem. Currently it just runs Mojo.Log.error (which actually does nothing on your phone because logging is turned off.)

    I could fix problems much faster if every time _your_ phone had a problem I knew about it, but it would probably send me some information about your facebook account. (Which, obviously, I wouldn't read or use other than to fix the bugs.)
    Make it an opt-in option and explain what it is pretty clearly in the preferences menu.. (I'd turn it on..)
    -m
  20. #1940  
    I'd have no problem whatsoever helping you out with data to better the product. Excited about the new version soon! Welcome back! We missed you!

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