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  1. DrSuSE's Avatar
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    #2281  
    Meh... in my experience, when "smaller" companies "go out of business", they just do so... they don't give advance warning.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it wouldn't be nice or whatever... I just don't think it is as devastating a crime as you seem to.

    Personally speaking, if it were me and something came up (i.e. work, family, health, vacation, etc) and I came back to this thread... I'd browse elsewhere and never look back. Who wants to return to these sorts of posts? heh.
  2. #2282  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrSuSE View Post
    Meh... in my experience, when "smaller" companies "go out of business", they just do so... they don't give advance warning.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it wouldn't be nice or whatever... I just don't think it is as devastating a crime as you seem to.

    Personally speaking, if it were me and something came up (i.e. work, family, health, vacation, etc) and I came back to this thread... I'd browse elsewhere and never look back. Who wants to return to these sorts of posts? heh.
    Yeah I agree. I wouldn't want to come back if people are bad mouthing my project. We don't know what happened to him. Something could be wrong and he can't get to the computer. So be patient. Hopefully he will come back but if not he did leave us with a working app.
  3. #2283  
    Facebook Chat Now Available Everywhere | Facebook
    This should make it easy for Grepper to add Facebook Chat to FriendsFlow..
  4. grepper's Avatar
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       #2284  
    1. I'm not dead.
    2. I am probably not going to be adding more features to FriendsFlow. I will fix it if it breaks.
    3. I am fairly sure WebOS does not give the necessary access to make an XMPP client that doesn't have to go through a gateway. I believe there are XMPP (jabber) clients for webos already.
  5. #2285  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    1. I'm not dead.
    2. I am probably not going to be adding more features to friendsflow. I will fix it if it breaks.
    3. I am fairly sure webos does not give the necessary access to make an xmpp client that doesn't have to go through a gateway. I believe there are xmpp (jabber) clients for webos already.
    he's alive!
    Juan

    2010-2011 Champions!

  6. #2286  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    1. I'm not dead.
    2. I am probably not going to be adding more features to FriendsFlow. I will fix it if it breaks.
    3. I am fairly sure WebOS does not give the necessary access to make an XMPP client that doesn't have to go through a gateway. I believe there are XMPP (jabber) clients for webos already.
    Thanks for your work Grepper. It's a great app and it was around when nothing else existed. Thanks again. Take care bro!
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  7. #2287  
    Thanks for the response Grepper. Good luck in your future endeavors man!
  8. #2288  
    Question what is friendsflow's license and does it allow us the freedom to write patches for it? If not may we have permission to create patches for it?
  9. DrSuSE's Avatar
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    #2289  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneRyno View Post
    Question what is friendsflow's license and does it allow us the freedom to write patches for it? If not may we have permission to create patches for it?
    From the first post... not sure if Grepper's position has changed:

    The only reason you should modify the source code is to send me a patch or for your own personal use. Any other source code modification is explicitly forbidden.
  10. grepper's Avatar
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       #2290  
    You may write whatever patches you want with the following conditions:

    1. You may not disable the ads in the free version
    2. The inclusion of your patch does not change the copyright ownership of the rest of FriendsFlow. (Therefore, you can not distribute your new SuperFriendsFlow without my permission)
  11. squeff's Avatar
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    #2291  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    You may write whatever patches you want with the following conditions:

    1. You may not disable the ads in the free version
    2. The inclusion of your patch does not change the copyright ownership of the rest of FriendsFlow. (Therefore, you can not distribute your new SuperFriendsFlow without my permission)
    Since it sounds like you're just plain done with this project, might I suggest that you turn this over to someone else that IS interested in continuing the work?

    It's a testament to your work, so far, that someone might actually want to build a "SuperFriendsFlow" based on what you've done.

    But, if you're really as "done" with it as you seem to be, don't hold it hostage from someone taking it over, supporting it, etc.

    Or should we see your wishing to hold on to it as a sign that you do actually care about it?
  12. grepper's Avatar
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       #2292  
    I have two responses to that:

    1. I am still earning money from FriendsFlow. Your suggestion is like saying that Microsoft is "plain done" with Office 2007 and might as well give it away and let others create derivative works.
    2. I may continue to work on FriendsFlow. I reserve the right to do so unless someone purchases that right from me.

    For what it is worth, I have written other software (Application Layer Packet Classifier for Linux, http://althea.sourceforge.net/) "just for the fun of writing software" which is open source, given away for free and I welcome others to create derivative works of those.

    FriendsFlow is a commercial piece of software. I wrote it with the intention of making money. In retrospect I did not make a particularly good return on investment. (I made a few thousand dollars from hundreds of hours of work. My gut guess is I made no more than $10/hour before taxes.) FriendsFlow is a commercial endeavor.

    I'd be happy to sell it to someone for a fair price. You could take up a collection to make it open source and free if you wish.
  13. squeff's Avatar
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    #2293  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    I have two responses to that:

    1. I am still earning money from FriendsFlow. Your suggestion is like saying that Microsoft is "plain done" with Office 2007 and might as well give it away and let others create derivative works.
    2. I may continue to work on FriendsFlow. I reserve the right to do so unless someone purchases that right from me.

    For what it is worth, I have written other software (Application Layer Packet Classifier for Linux, SourceForge.net: Althea - Project Web Hosting - Open Source Software) "just for the fun of writing software" which is open source, given away for free and I welcome others to create derivative works of those.

    FriendsFlow is a commercial piece of software. I wrote it with the intention of making money. In retrospect I did not make a particularly good return on investment. (I made a few thousand dollars from hundreds of hours of work. My gut guess is I made no more than $10/hour before taxes.) FriendsFlow is a commercial endeavor.

    I'd be happy to sell it to someone for a fair price. You could take up a collection to make it open source and free if you wish.
    I think the solution is for your to update your description in the catalog to say that this product is no longer being actively supported and will not be enhanced further.

    I know you've said that you're still "supporting" it, but given the messages here, it sounds like you've been ignoring e-mails.

    Microsoft announced their decommission, in advance. You took people's money, make "promises" (I know you don't view it that way, but from the posts here, it sure likes like some felt you promised some things), went missing for several weeks, and then announced in a terse message that you're not actively developing the product.

    If your reasoning for dumping your customers is that you've not made enough money, do you expect something to change?

    I'm all for you expecting that your rights be purchased. But given the bad feelings you've left here, I'd like to ask that you extend some sort of carrot.

    Or, at least, be honest to those that might still buy your product that you've angry that you've not made enough money and that they shouldn't expect anything from you.

    As for me, I continue to use FriendsFlow, but I find it still has bugs. Plus, given that FaceBook is always making changes that affect third party apps, I have little confidence that it'll continue to work much longer with a developer that has no interest in bothering with it.

    What's your plan to fix bugs and ensure that the product continues to work, at least for the next 12 months? If you can't commit to it, then let someone else take it over. Maybe revenue sharing?
  14. grepper's Avatar
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       #2294  
    Quote Originally Posted by squeff View Post
    I think the solution is for your to update your description in the catalog to say that this product is no longer being actively supported and will not be enhanced further.
    This is false. It is being supported. I have responded to any e-mails asking for support with the product. I have not necessarily responded to e-mails asking if I'm alive or continuing development.

    The product you buy is what you buy. When you buy Office 2007, you don't expect to get further feature enhancements until you buy Office 2010.
  15. grepper's Avatar
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       #2295  
    Also, actually, that's not the reasoning. The reasoning is that the expected return on investment of enhancing the product FURTHER is very low.

    Here's a brief history of the FriendsFlow project.

    When I started development, there was no facebook client and no promise of a facebook client from Palm or Facebook. People were begging for someone to write a facebook client. I wrote one. That made people happy.

    At almost exactly the same time that FriendsFlow became available, Palm announced they were writing a client (with almost identical features.)

    For the month between when FriendsFlow was available and when Facebook by Palm became available I sold a couple thousand copies. Only a few hundred people have purchased FriendsFlow since then.

    When I started development, I was filling a demand for a facebook client in a world without one. That demand isn't there any more. That's the way capitalism works. When there is a demand the market fills it. If the demand dries up, investment dries up.

    Your use of your Palm Pre has been enhanced by the existence of FriendsFlow. At most, you paid me $2 to use it. The product, AS IT IS, is still worth at least $2 in my opinion.

    I am not going to feel at all guilty for not further investing in a business that I know will not make back that investment.
  16. grepper's Avatar
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       #2296  
    PS, there have been a few complaints that ads are showing up in the beta version for paying customers. I am not sure why that would be the case but there is an easy solution.

    The current beta version and the paid version are identical. If you have paid for the paid version you should be able to download that again and use that. It will certainly not have ads.
  17. squeff's Avatar
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    #2297  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    This is false. It is being supported. I have responded to any e-mails asking for support with the product. I have not necessarily responded to e-mails asking if I'm alive or continuing development.

    The product you buy is what you buy. When you buy Office 2007, you don't expect to get further feature enhancements until you buy Office 2010.
    I'm not asking for enhancements. I'm looking for commitment to bug fixed, user support, and the comfort to know that you'll ensure the product will continue to work. Like I said, Microsoft announces decommission dates. How long are you going to COMMIT to continuing to support the product?

    Anyway, here are the bugs I'm having:

    (1) If I push left or right, the "window" pushes off the side of the screen and I have a devil of a time getting it back on track.

    (2) I keep getting notifications that aren't real. When I tap on the link, I'm either sent to an ad (no, these are not notifications being generated by ads) or a Facebook error page. When I check Facebook's site, these notifications aren't listed. Now, FB may be sending you bad data, but this is an issue that needs to be resolved.

    Right now, I have a notification that says "<Name of Friend> you have (1) new message." If I tap the "new message" hyperlink, I get a FB page that says "The page you requested was not found." I confirmed with this friend that they have not send me a message in several months. And, again, FB's notifications don't show it, so it's unlikely a virus message.

    (3) VERY Minor, but there shows a little square in the lower left of "Loading Your Feed" box. Sometimes shows up elsewhere.

    (4) On a Friends page, there are "buttons" for "Wall," "Photo Albums," etc. However, they don't appear as buttons or links. While this is a visual thing, and maybe not the highest priority bug to fix, it's something that should be fixed before you declare yourself "done."

    (5) Display issues with photos, captions, full screen/not.

    Others, but you get the point...
  18. squeff's Avatar
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    #2298  
    Quote Originally Posted by grepper View Post
    Also, actually, that's not the reasoning. The reasoning is that the expected return on investment of enhancing the product FURTHER is very low.

    Here's a brief history of the FriendsFlow project.

    When I started development, there was no facebook client and no promise of a facebook client from Palm or Facebook. People were begging for someone to write a facebook client. I wrote one. That made people happy.

    At almost exactly the same time that FriendsFlow became available, Palm announced they were writing a client (with almost identical features.)

    For the month between when FriendsFlow was available and when Facebook by Palm became available I sold a couple thousand copies. Only a few hundred people have purchased FriendsFlow since then.

    When I started development, I was filling a demand for a facebook client in a world without one. That demand isn't there any more. That's the way capitalism works. When there is a demand the market fills it. If the demand dries up, investment dries up.

    Your use of your Palm Pre has been enhanced by the existence of FriendsFlow. At most, you paid me $2 to use it. The product, AS IT IS, is still worth at least $2 in my opinion.

    I am not going to feel at all guilty for not further investing in a business that I know will not make back that investment.
    You've proven my point. It no longer has value, so what are you really losing by letting someone else (even someone you hand pick) take on the lifting of enhancing the product.

    If you don't expect to make any more money (at least not enough to make continue work for you worthwhile), then you might as well let someone else do it. This doesn't diminish your work. In fact, it shows have "valuable" (even if not in a monetary sense) it is.

    I'm not complaining that you're not continuing to enhance the product. But I wonder what you really hope to gain by not letting someone else take it over.
  19. #2299  
    if I'm not mistaken he did say if someone wanted to purchase it, he would sell it. Why is this bothering you so much? He came out with a product that people needed and used. Now there are other products that is halting his money making. When someone starts a business, they do it to make money. When the money stops, the business stops. Just move onto friendsbook. They are still updating and enhancing. I loved friendsflow, but it's run it's course so I've moved on. If he decides to come out with a super friendsflow and charge for it to make more money than so be it...butleave the guy alone...would it have been nice to get a notice that enhancements weren't being continued? Sure. But we didn't. Whoopity doo. Just move on. It was a $2 investment for a few months of need. Now there are other free options, so no loss. Give the guy a break.
  20. squeff's Avatar
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    #2300  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinamn2224 View Post
    if I'm not mistaken he did say if someone wanted to purchase it, he would sell it. Why is this bothering you so much? He came out with a product that people needed and used. Now there are other products that is halting his money making. When someone starts a business, they do it to make money. When the money stops, the business stops. Just move onto friendsbook. They are still updating and enhancing. I loved friendsflow, but it's run it's course so I've moved on. If he decides to come out with a super friendsflow and charge for it to make more money than so be it...butleave the guy alone...would it have been nice to get a notice that enhancements weren't being continued? Sure. But we didn't. Whoopity doo. Just move on. It was a $2 investment for a few months of need. Now there are other free options, so no loss. Give the guy a break.
    Please understand, this isn't what I was saying. But that you for the comments.

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