Developers abandoning webOS?

Mikey47 · 02/10/2011, 01:38 AM

Would love to hear developer's reaction to today's announcement that there will be no webOS 2.0 on existing devices?

How can you want to put forth any effort to migrate your apps to 2.0 when you know there will basically be no devices for quite a while that will be able to run your app?

Also, how does it feel to have apps that you have put your blood, sweat and tears into on a dead device?

Do you think the HP will not make a decision like this again and force people to purchase a new device to get the next big update to the OS?

Just curious, I read all the statements by users who are upset, are developers as upset?

tshile · 02/10/2011, 06:21 AM

you can see some of it in the thread stickied at the top. quite a few developers are upset, especially some that put a lot of time into developing around the mojo framework.

Walhalla2k · 02/10/2011, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tshile

you can see some of it in the thread stickied at the top. quite a few developers are upset, especially some that put a lot of time into developing around the mojo framework.

ok.. but still it would be nice to hear it from developers.... I´m not a developer, but I could see a potential for them here... even a question is what will happen to the existing applications - like those which need the gesture area (will they run on webos3 - touchpad?)

CGK · 02/10/2011, 07:16 AM

The Web OS developer forum over at HP seems to be largely dead - the few who seem to hang around there don't seem to be very impressed. The biggest problem is time to market - people have to eat and developing for devices that don't actually exist doesn't put food on the table.

neville · 02/10/2011, 07:38 AM

I am a developer and I am abandoning webOS because of this.

edit: i think a poll may be a better representation of this data

Ulairi · 02/10/2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey47

Would love to hear developer's reaction to today's announcement that there will be no webOS 2.0 on existing devices?

How can you want to put forth any effort to migrate your apps to 2.0 when you know there will basically be no devices for quite a while that will be able to run your app?

Also, how does it feel to have apps that you have put your blood, sweat and tears into on a dead device?

Do you think the HP will not make a decision like this again and force people to purchase a new device to get the next big update to the OS?

Just curious, I read all the statements by users who are upset, are developers as upset?

Trying to build your market around the legacy devices isn't going to make any developer money. There arent' enough legacy users out there. Developing apps for the current phones (Pre 2, Pre 3, Veer, TouchPad) is what they'd have to do. I think a lot of the butt hurt comes from Sprint users or hobbist.

CGK · 02/10/2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulairi

Trying to build your market around the legacy devices isn't going to make any developer money. There arent' enough legacy users out there. Developing apps for the current phones (Pre 2, Pre 3, Veer, TouchPad) is what they'd have to do. I think a lot of the butt hurt comes from Sprint users or hobbist.

Virtually nobody has a pre 2, the pre 3,Touchpad are coming out "in the summer", the veer is promised for 'early spring' but with absolutely no dates, carriers or prices.

So you develop an app for the 'current' phones - which nobody has and there no firm dates on arrival - how do you make any money from this strategy?

antonio3 · 02/10/2011, 07:59 AM

exactly what i've been screaming this whole time... posted this in another developer thread:

That developers now have a ZERO user base? and we need to "unlearn" mojo. Current userbase will NOT get 2.0 and there are NO WebOS2.0 devices out there, ok Pre2 but with No marketing no hype how good will it sell, and iPhone just announced? Pre2 is an afterthough/proof of concept...it's a developer phone. And there is no SDK for 2.0 so we can't write anything but on an ALPHA SDK? Def a HUGE setback. Makes me want to pick up a book for andriod or dare i say iPhone

And current user base will start to jump ship like it's on fire... so there are ZERO users now and we won't see a user base till Pre3 is launched AFTER the iPhone5 LoL. who will write apps in mojo now? with the news that has been released? No one. and why would Pre/Pixi users stick around when no more apps are going to written for their phone?

what a crock... this will set developers back about a YEAR till new user base is established. A year for a userbase is a LONG time... i could waist my life doing other things like going out on dates and telling girls lies.

bureX · 02/10/2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulairi

I think a lot of the butt hurt comes from Sprint users or hobbist.

These are pretty much the only users left on webOS (referring to hobbyists).

neville · 02/10/2011, 08:14 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the pre3 and veer are going to be big letdowns saleswise.

They're late to market and they're scorning existing webOS users. So who else is there to purchase the phones? Who else is there to sell apps to?

As a developer, webOS app sales are pathetically small as-is. Palm effectively eliminated all future revenue for me from their platform.

graffix31 · 02/10/2011, 08:17 AM

I would expect everyone to be back. with webos everntually going to be on pretty much everything hp sells the market is going to explode. i mean chrome beta has some early apps you can get. this is just the begining. hp is not going to let this die. webos will be the future even if it takes a few months for things to materialize.

Ulairi · 02/10/2011, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGK

Virtually nobody has a pre 2, the pre 3,Touchpad are coming out "in the summer", the veer is promised for 'early spring' but with absolutely no dates, carriers or prices.

So you develop an app for the 'current' phones - which nobody has and there no firm dates on arrival - how do you make any money from this strategy?

You're not going to make money on 3 million users. You're investing in the future because you believe that HP has a plan and the ability to deliver on that plan. And, when I say plan not in the "waaaaaaaa!!!!! No Sprint, Not today!" plan that a lot of posters here wanted. HP has the ability to get millions of devices out this year and millions of connected devices that builds an eco system for success.

CGK · 02/10/2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulairi

You're not going to make money on 3 million users. You're investing in the future because you believe that HP has a plan and the ability to deliver on that plan. And, when I say plan not in the "waaaaaaaa!!!!! No Sprint, Not today!" plan that a lot of posters here wanted. HP has the ability to get millions of devices out this year and millions of connected devices that builds an eco system for success.

That's great, how do you *eat* now? How do you eat potential?

What is the incentive to develop an app *at this moment*?

Ulairi · 02/10/2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGK

That's great, how do you *eat* now? How do you eat potential?

What is the incentive to develop an app *at this moment*?

Again, you're missing the point. Developers aren't eating off webOS now anyway. The platform is too small. It's call investment to learn the tools and get your production pipeline up to succeed in the future.

DanPLC · 02/10/2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey47

Would love to hear developer's reaction to today's announcement that there will be no webOS 2.0 on existing devices?

I posted my reactions on Twitter, as well as here: http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ml#post2857519. In short, as a developer of a 2.0-specific app, I was blindsided and feel like a mack truck ran into me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey47

How can you want to put forth any effort to migrate your apps to 2.0 when you know there will basically be no devices for quite a while that will be able to run your app?

I was actually planning on implementing a few 2.0 features into GeoStrings such as Just Type, Quick Actions, and voice memo recording, but those plans are scrapped for the time being.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey47

Also, how does it feel to have apps that you have put your blood, sweat and tears into on a dead device?

As I just posted in my Music Player (Remix) thread, I think the reason HP did it was to start over from scratch (a reboot of webOS). Sure they have an existing user base, 5000 apps, and a set of developers, but they're obviously going for the gold. They want to play with the big boys (iOS and Android), so their current stats are just a blip on the screen. However what they don't realize is that the heart of webOS has been the community (users and developers). Focusing solely on their potential new users and developers and forgetting about their existing community is a mistake.

abegee · 08:50 AM

I'm am leaving webOS behind for NEW Apps (just can't see myself trusting HP again ), I'm going to make my decision tonight on further development and support of my current apps.

App name : Box.net client Rating : 4 Price : 0.99

App name : Weather & Clock Widget Rating : 4.3 Price : .99

App name : findMYcar Rating : 3.7 Price : 0.99

App name : Zemanim Rating : 4.6 Price : 0.99
App name : Bing Search Wallpaper Rating : 3.8 Price : Free

App name : MyClock Rating : 4 Price : 0.99

App name : weatherIcon Rating : 4.1 Price : Free

mikah912 · 02/10/2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulairi

Again, you're missing the point. Developers aren't eating off webOS now anyway. The platform is too small. It's call investment to learn the tools and get your production pipeline up to succeed in the future.

You didn't answer his question. If you're a developer, what, exactly, are you investing in? HP put the brakes on WebOS (not that it had much momentum anyway), and gave NO DATES for when it'll restart.

These devices are coming out when? Summer? That's helpful. Oh, they're going to stick it on PCs? When? Just laptops? All-in-Ones? Netbooks? Users will have the option of using it or not using it? Will it beat the planned Microsoft App store to market? How are they planning to beat the wider reach and similar scope of Intel's AppUp App Store? What's my developer device? The second lowest spec phone you have going forward? Really?

vivajay69 · 02/10/2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanPLC

I posted my reactions on Twitter, as well as here: http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ml#post2857519. In short, as a developer of a 2.0-specific app, I was blindsided and feel like a mack truck ran into me.

I was actually planning on implementing a few 2.0 features into GeoStrings such as Just Type, Quick Actions, and voice memo recording, but those plans are scrapped for the time being.

As I just posted in my Music Player (Remix) thread, I think the reason HP did it was to start over from scratch (a reboot of webOS). Sure they have an existing user base, 5000 apps, and a set of developers, but they're obviously going for the gold. They want to play with the big boys (iOS and Android), so their current stats are just a blip on the screen. However what they don't realize is that the heart of webOS has been the community (users and developers). Focusing solely on their potential new users and developers and forgetting about their existing community is a mistake.

DanPLC has hit it right on the head with his answers. If I was a developer for WebOS, I would see no reason to build anything for an obsolete platform and for a future platform that hasn't gotten off the ground and will not for months. It's a major mistake not to upgrade everyone now so there would at least be a solid base of users using 2.0. I don't think anyone will bother purchasing any further apps in 1.4.5 knowing that in the "coming months" they'll be switching to a new phone anyway.

CGK · 02/10/2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulairi

Again, you're missing the point. Developers aren't eating off webOS now anyway. The platform is too small. It's call investment to learn the tools and get your production pipeline up to succeed in the future.

So that's your advice to Dan (who I think has been developing since 2009?)? There is jam tomorrow - you don't know the favour, you don't know what shops it will be in, you don't know the prices, you don't know the release dates but you are pretty certain there is jam tomorrow.

mikah912 · 02/10/2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivajay69

DanPLC has hit it right on the head with his answers. If I was a developer for WebOS, I would see no reason to build anything for an obsolete platform and for a future platform that hasn't gotten off the ground and will not for months. It's a major mistake not to upgrade everyone now so there would at least be a solid base of users using 2.0. I don't think anyone will bother purchasing any further apps in 1.4.5 knowing that in the "coming months" they'll be switching to a new phone anyway.

This. Depress current users while providing no concrete date on when the next batch will fully launch and how wide that launch will be. What happens if the Veer and Pre 3 get tentative launches like the Pre 2, then stuck in pre-release purgatory?

Why would you introduce a great deal of additional risk on a platform where developers have already "bet so much" on its potential?

02/10/2011, 01:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mikey47 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Western WI Posts: 1,606 Likes Received: 76 Thanks: 108 Thanked 271 Times in 182 Posts	Developers abandoning webOS? Would love to hear developer's reaction to today's announcement that there will be no webOS 2.0 on existing devices? How can you want to put forth any effort to migrate your apps to 2.0 when you know there will basically be no devices for quite a while that will be able to run your app? Also, how does it feel to have apps that you have put your blood, sweat and tears into on a dead device? Do you think the HP will not make a decision like this again and force people to purchase a new device to get the next big update to the OS? Just curious, I read all the statements by users who are upset, are developers as upset?
	Liked by Thanked by darkzone, IcerC, lazslo11, Walhalla2k

02/10/2011, 06:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
tshile Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 97 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts	you can see some of it in the thread stickied at the top. quite a few developers are upset, especially some that put a lot of time into developing around the mojo framework.
	Liked by

02/10/2011, 07:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
CGK Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,668 Likes Received: 470 Thanks: 89 Thanked 395 Times in 265 Posts	The Web OS developer forum over at HP seems to be largely dead - the few who seem to hang around there don't seem to be very impressed. The biggest problem is time to market - people have to eat and developing for devices that don't actually exist doesn't put food on the table.
	Liked by

02/10/2011, 07:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
neville Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 543 Likes Received: 79 Thanks: 31 Thanked 355 Times in 97 Posts	I am a developer and I am abandoning webOS because of this. edit: i think a poll may be a better representation of this data __________________ Developer of Ultimate Hockey, netSpeed, BatteryMonitor, The Ghastly Headset, netSpeed HD, St4rs and Matrix Exhibition ------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow my webOS projects on my blog and follow me on twitter
	Liked by

02/10/2011, 07:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
antonio3 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 832 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 29 Thanked 99 Times in 65 Posts	exactly what i've been screaming this whole time... posted this in another developer thread: That developers now have a ZERO user base? and we need to "unlearn" mojo. Current userbase will NOT get 2.0 and there are NO WebOS2.0 devices out there, ok Pre2 but with No marketing no hype how good will it sell, and iPhone just announced? Pre2 is an afterthough/proof of concept...it's a developer phone. And there is no SDK for 2.0 so we can't write anything but on an ALPHA SDK? Def a HUGE setback. Makes me want to pick up a book for andriod or dare i say iPhone And current user base will start to jump ship like it's on fire... so there are ZERO users now and we won't see a user base till Pre3 is launched AFTER the iPhone5 LoL. who will write apps in mojo now? with the news that has been released? No one. and why would Pre/Pixi users stick around when no more apps are going to written for their phone? what a crock... this will set developers back about a YEAR till new user base is established. A year for a userbase is a LONG time... i could waist my life doing other things like going out on dates and telling girls lies.
	Liked by

02/10/2011, 08:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
neville Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 543 Likes Received: 79 Thanks: 31 Thanked 355 Times in 97 Posts	I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the pre3 and veer are going to be big letdowns saleswise. They're late to market and they're scorning existing webOS users. So who else is there to purchase the phones? Who else is there to sell apps to? As a developer, webOS app sales are pathetically small as-is. Palm effectively eliminated all future revenue for me from their platform. __________________ Developer of Ultimate Hockey, netSpeed, BatteryMonitor, The Ghastly Headset, netSpeed HD, St4rs and Matrix Exhibition ------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow my webOS projects on my blog and follow me on twitter
	Liked by Thanked By: janric

02/10/2011, 08:17 AM	#11 (permalink)
graffix31 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South of Boston Posts: 950 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 206 Thanked 132 Times in 119 Posts	I would expect everyone to be back. with webos everntually going to be on pretty much everything hp sells the market is going to explode. i mean chrome beta has some early apps you can get. this is just the begining. hp is not going to let this die. webos will be the future even if it takes a few months for things to materialize.
	Liked by Thanked by jkeitz, Walhalla2k

02/10/2011, 08:42 AM	#16 (permalink)
abegee Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 830 Likes Received: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 249 Times in 131 Posts	I'm am leaving webOS behind for NEW Apps (just can't see myself trusting HP again ), I'm going to make my decision tonight on further development and support of my current apps. App name : Box.net client Rating : 4 Price : 0.99 App name : Weather & Clock Widget Rating : 4.3 Price : .99 App name : findMYcar Rating : 3.7 Price : 0.99 App name : Zemanim Rating : 4.6 Price : 0.99 App name : Bing Search Wallpaper Rating : 3.8 Price : Free App name : MyClock Rating : 4 Price : 0.99 App name : weatherIcon Rating : 4.1 Price : Free Last edited by abegee; 02/10/2011 at 08:50 AM.
	Liked by Thanked By: milominderbinder

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