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  1.    #1  
    I wonder about these two things a lot...and since i'm stuck inside for days because of this ice storm in Atlanta, i may as well ask.

    1. Can comm hardware from some (whichever) other LTE phone be forced to work in a Pre2?
    The FrankenPre process proves the hardware is swappable. What if we could build/buy a new modem and just upgrade Pre2's to LTE?

    2. Can "we" (whoever) do what HP never did and make us a "final version" Doctor that fixes all known issues, like a "v. 2.2.9 for 2014"? Something that addresses the app cert issue and applies all the innovative fixes that this community has discovered over the past two years? Something we can run on any 'new' phone we buy today?

    I'm talking about limitations aside from legal. That's just a matter of permission. I am wondering about the availability of hardware and installation modifications required.

    I'd like to discuss if it's possible and what it would take.

    Even if it's highly unlikely, if it's possible i'd like to know. So don't reply if you only think "no". Please do reply if you think "Yes but..."

    - Can a set of "2014 Doctors" be made for Pre3, Pre2, and Veer?
    - Can I open up Sprint LTE phone, yank out its comm guts, and transplant them into a Pre2 for a "FrankenPre '14"?

    BORED FROSTBITTEN MINDS WANT TO KNOW.
    ananimus, boovish and treacl like this.
  2. #2  
    Ho hum! I don't know, but it's never stopped me before!

    Quote Originally Posted by TJs11thPre View Post
    I wonder about these two things a lot...and since i'm stuck inside for days because of this ice storm in Atlanta, i may as well ask.

    1. Can comm hardware from some (whichever) other LTE phone be forced to work in a Pre2?
    The FrankenPre process proves the hardware is swappable. What if we could build/buy a new modem and just upgrade Pre2's to LTE?
    Maybe, probably. If you can get the parts (retail), if it's the same size to fit the phone. Then there's the question of the device driver. If there's some Android LTE out there supported by an open source driver..? I wouldn't hold your breath...

    2. Can "we" (whoever) do what HP never did and make us a "final version" Doctor that fixes all known issues, like a "v. 2.2.9 for 2014"? Something that addresses the app cert issue and applies all the innovative fixes that this community has discovered over the past two years? Something we can run on any 'new' phone we buy today?
    I imagine this is also possible. It may require a lot of work by a dev when technically, you can do it now by applying the various patches or fixes. Although it depends what you mean by "all known issues".

    I'm talking about limitations aside from legal. That's just a matter of permission. I am wondering about the availability of hardware and installation modifications required.
    Given that you 'own'or at least have a license for all the software on your phone, there is likely a way to back it up and I think there are already scripts to download and dissect the freely available doctor files. So you could probably knock something up, stuff in some HB goodness and reinstall. Like a windows service pack. But again that's a lot of work for someone and you have the flexibility and choice of mixing and matching your own patch selection already. I suppose a simple service pack that addressed the App catalogue, youtube and recent hotmail/security cert issues would be of general usefulness. Also, most all warranties are likely expired now, so...

    I think this will be easier with the Port as it will all be open, good patches can go in new distros and people will be more interested as it's... the future!

    BORED FROSTBITTEN MINDS WANT TO KNOW.
    Look after yourself in that weather and keep warm - at least your internet is still on! ;-)
  3. #3  
    Maybe one day the world will be covered with free wifi and you won't be pining for LTE anymore
    MartinH@webos likes this.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Ho hum! I don't know, but it's never stopped me before!
    THAT'S the can-do attitude i like!
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I imagine this is also possible. It may require a lot of work by a dev when technically, you can do it now by applying the various patches or fixes. Although it depends what you mean by "all known issues".
    of course we have great homebrew and patches. and as simple as WOSQI is now, it's still daunting for some. Nothing beats the "plug n' play" simplicity of the webOS Doctor. it's one of the best features of webOS!

    i don't mean 'customizations', just known operating issues, like you mentioned. plus the BT sux on 2.2.4, some other 'must have' tweaks i can't think of right now but we know them. these patches should just be part of the original install with a fresh doctoring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    I think this will be easier with the Port as it will all be open, good patches can go in new distros and people will be more interested as it's... the future!
    yeah but i'm not excited about the Port at all. BECAUSE I CAN'T PORT IT TO AN EXISTING WEBOS PHONE SO WHAT'S THE POINT?

    i don't just like the OS, i love the hardware form factor. there's nothing worth porting to. in fact, after using a Pre3 AND a Veer, i now totally understand what Goldilocks was saying: the size of the original Pre/Pre2 chassis feels "just right". (yes she said that right before being eaten by angry bears)
    Quote Originally Posted by Preemptive View Post
    Look after yourself in that weather and keep warm - at least your internet is still on! ;-)
    my internet is "on" thanks to my diehard FrankenPre2. my only internet source for the last 6 mos has been Sprint 3G through the phone. like 15 hrs a day. i'm vacuuming up 11 gig a month. ssssh
    Last edited by TJs11thPre; 02/13/2014 at 02:17 AM.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    Maybe one day the world will be covered with free wifi and you won't be pining for LTE anymore
    yeah that'll happen - right after they release a Pre4...in my dreams!
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJs11thPre View Post
    I wonder about these two things a lot...and since i'm stuck inside for days because of this ice storm in Atlanta, i may as well ask.

    1. Can comm hardware from some (whichever) other LTE phone be forced to work in a Pre2?
    The FrankenPre process proves the hardware is swappable. What if we could build/buy a new modem and just upgrade Pre2's to LTE?
    I doubt it but who knows. I guess some drivers would need to be embedded etc.
    2. Can "we" (whoever) do what HP never did and make us a "final version" Doctor that fixes all known issues, like a "v. 2.2.9 for 2014"? Something that addresses the app cert issue and applies all the innovative fixes that this community has discovered over the past two years? Something we can run on any 'new' phone we buy today?

    I'm talking about limitations aside from legal. That's just a matter of permission. I am wondering about the availability of hardware and installation modifications required.
    Yes, theoretically you could create a Doctor that includes all you need. I know John Steffes can do this
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJs11thPre View Post
    2. Can "we" (whoever) do what HP never did and make us a "final version" Doctor that fixes all known issues, like a "v. 2.2.9 for 2014"? Something that addresses the app cert issue and applies all the innovative fixes that this community has discovered over the past two years?
    I get the app cert but as for the other fixes, who is the final arbiter as to what gets included? It's one of the things I love about WebOS, I pick the patches to personalize the phone. I get to decide the priorities via Preware and WOSQI. Setting up a new phone was exciting and when the patches and tweaks were coming weekly, it was fun! I love me some tweaks!
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    I doubt it but who knows. I guess some drivers would need to be embedded etc.

    Yes, theoretically you could create a Doctor that includes all you need. I know John Steffes can do this
    I updated my scripts, tested them, but the issues that I found is HP/Palm did not release the IPK on their web site only on their app catalog, so I would have to put together a document on how to backup the certs from an existing device or backup the IPK and detail how a user would rip it apart to extract the certs...

    Once you have the certs in a directory in the meta doctor directory the scripts (which I have not published because of the above issue), build the doctor with the new certs already in place (including updating the app catalog as well)...

    I also created a script that would extract the existing cert then modify the certs via patching to new cert but although it seemed to work a few times it did not always work on other devices (I use a MAC for my webOS meta doctor scripts), even created a on-device script but again it did not work on all devices (with all versions of webOS)...

    So I can release the scripts to github and have rod update meta doctor application, but then I would also have to document how users would get the certs, which I was hoping HP/Palm would just put it on their web site.

    Then I also was going to update the GlobalSign Root CA (as they did publish the update cert file on their web site), just have not had the time to update the scripts for that cert...

    Remember HP/Palm are the only ones who can distribute their IPK or certs (copyrighted portions)...

    As for updating the doctors I have attempted to make the Super Doctor script the best of the best...

    I even have Super+ doctor scripts which (from backups sources) use App Catalog updates and build a doctor with the latest versions of QuickOffice/Adobe PDF, Kindle, Maps, etc...), but again I would have to detail how users backup their IPK's and where to put them to build Super+ doctors...

    I even created Open webOS scripts which ported the Open Source Applications (which where worse then the doctor versions), I also created scripts which took the x86 SDK and ported the doctor versions and turned a x86 into a working app catalog device (impostahed as a Touchpad)...

    As far as the hardware goes, the Pre2/PrePlus/Pre all share the same guts and can swap parts around, the Pixi/PixiPlus share the same guts and can swap parts, even the three different Pre3's can swap around, but no other hardware vendor has produced a comm board like HP/Palm that I have ever seen.
    Last edited by John Steffes; 02/13/2014 at 10:40 AM.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
    I updated my scripts, tested them, but the issues that I found is HP/Palm did not release the IPK on their web site only on their app catalog, so I would have to put together a document on how to backup the certs from an existing device or backup the IPK and detail how a user would rip it apart to extract the certs...

    Once you have the certs in a directory in the meta doctor directory the scripts (which I have not published because of the above issue), build the doctor with the new certs already in place (including updating the app catalog as well)...

    I also created a script that would extract the existing cert then modify the certs via patching to new cert but although it seemed to work a few times it did not always work on other devices (I use a MAC for my webOS meta doctor scripts), even created a on-device script but again it did not work on all devices (with all versions of webOS)...

    So I can release the scripts to github and have rod update meta doctor application, but then I would also have to document how users would get the certs, which I was hoping HP/Palm would just put it on their web site.

    Then I also was going to update the GlobalSign Root CA (as they did publish the update cert file on their web site), just have not had the time to update the scripts for that cert...

    Remember HP/Palm are the only ones who can distribute their IPK or certs (copyrighted portions)...

    As for updating the doctors I have attempted to make the Super Doctor script the best of the best...

    I even have Super+ doctor scripts which (from backups sources) use App Catalog updates and build a doctor with the latest versions of QuickOffice/Adobe PDF, Kindle, Maps, etc...), but again I would have to detail how users backup their IPK's and where to put them to build Super+ doctors...

    I even created Open webOS scripts which ported the Open Source Applications (which where worse then the doctor versions), I also created scripts which took the x86 SDK and ported the doctor versions and turned a x86 into a working app catalog device (impostahed as a Touchpad)...

    As far as the hardware goes, the Pre2/PrePlus/Pre all share the same guts and can swap parts around, the Pixi/PixiPlus share the same guts and can swap parts, even the three different Pre3's can swap around, but no other hardware vendor has produced a comm board like HP/Palm that I have ever seen.
    John,

    It would be great if you could share this with us! Based on this I might also have some other ideas I could work out I think for the IPK you can just point to [How To] Retain App IPKs from App Catalog
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJs11thPre View Post
    i don't mean 'customizations', just known operating issues, like you mentioned. plus the BT sux on 2.2.4, some other 'must have' tweaks i can't think of right now but we know them. these patches should just be part of the original install with a fresh doctoring.
    I'm inclined to agree that a combined patch for the basic & serious issues would be a good idea. Who wants no app catalogue, crappy youtube and out of date security certificates? I use the BT rarely and don't l know about issues, but this is more upgrade than a fix for something broken - maybe a bigger job.

    yeah but i'm not excited about the Port at all. BECAUSE I CAN'T PORT IT TO AN EXISTING WEBOS PHONE SO WHAT'S THE POINT?

    i don't just like the OS, i love the hardware form factor. there's nothing worth porting to. in fact, after using a Pre3 AND a Veer, i now totally understand what Goldilocks was saying: the size of the original Pre/Pre2 chassis feels "just right". (yes she said that right before being eaten by angry bears)
    Again from ignorance: I expect it is technically possibly to continually 'Franken' a pre by adding modules or replacements of worn parts and patching new drivers into the OS. Good luck. Option two would be to go 'Full Frankenstein', build a Chassis, solder together your favourite parts from other devices and 3D print a nice casing for it all. Part availability? OSS drivers? General compatibility? All these are problems YOU will have to solve. Option 3... the ARA modular phone? There are suggestions that the jolla 'other half' could include a slide out keyboard. Or throw another log on the fire, wrap the blanket tighter and dream of... the LG Pre4.

    Quote Originally Posted by petbull View Post
    I get the app cert but as for the other fixes, who is the final arbiter as to what gets included? It's one of the things I love about WebOS, I pick the patches to personalize the phone. I get to decide the priorities via Preware and WOSQI. Setting up a new phone was exciting and when the patches and tweaks were coming weekly, it was fun! I love me some tweaks!
    If Ports include the tweaks framework, then it may become more a question of customisation than patching as improvements from HB will simply be incorporated, but of course, an OSS system can always be patched further. I think that's pretty much how they develop.
  11. #11  
    I think the main problem with the LTE pre 2/3 idea is that most processor makers are integrating the LTE into the chips so their is no separate comm board. (from my understanding) At that point we might as well look into starting from scratch.
    Smartphones: Nokia 5230 > Palm Pre 2 > Nokia 701 (returned) > HP Pre 3 > BB Z10 (save me from it) + HP Touchpad
    Cars: 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD > 2007 Saab 9-3 2.0T


    LinkedIn: Matthew Mers
    Twitter: MatthewMers
    Preemptive likes this.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJs11thPre View Post
    what Goldilocks was saying: the size of the original Pre/Pre2 chassis feels "just right". (yes she said that right before being eaten by angry bears)
    You owe me a new bottle of mountain dew. And a good monitor cleaning. :P
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
    Preemptive and TJs11thPre like this.
  13. #13  
    I'll skip my speculations...

    Quote Originally Posted by TJs11thPre View Post
    BORED FROSTBITTEN MINDS WANT TO KNOW.
    ...and jump to this. Coming from Chicago, COME ON, BUDDY! My roots are alternating between sub-zero temps and inches of snowfall every day this winter. And you tremble at a little dusting? (My family and friends, of course. I retreated from winter break there just in time to miss the worst of it. Back to the beautiful Bay Area! )

    Really though, hope you stay safe and warm. It's miserable (and dangerous ) in areas not accustomed to it.

    Also, something about webOS.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by petbull View Post
    I get the app cert but as for the other fixes, who is the final arbiter as to what gets included? It's one of the things I love about WebOS, I pick the patches to personalize the phone. I get to decide the priorities via Preware and WOSQI. Setting up a new phone was exciting and when the patches and tweaks were coming weekly, it was fun! I love me some tweaks!
    I'd suggest common sense is the final arbiter. There are problems with 2.2.4 that, if HP still supported webOS, would have addressed with an OTA update. That is what I want. A "final version" that fixes what was missing.

    You'll still personalize the phone. But it would be on top of a fresh doctoring that finally eliminates the bugs HP never got.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ananimus View Post
    I'll skip my speculations...



    ...and jump to this. Coming from Chicago, COME ON, BUDDY! My roots are alternating between sub-zero temps and inches of snowfall every day this winter. And you tremble at a little dusting? (My family and friends, of course. I retreated from winter break there just in time to miss the worst of it. Back to the beautiful Bay Area! )

    Really though, hope you stay safe and warm. It's miserable (and dangerous ) in areas not accustomed to it.

    Also, something about webOS.
    the problem isn't the snow or cold. i'm from NJ and this weather is nothing to me. I was driving my truck around just for fun (at 3am when everyone was finally gone) in the snow 2 weeks ago.

    The problem here is that the conventional wisdom is that anything that falls, will melt the next day. Last night at this time there was 2" of ice. Today it all melted. But tonight it refroze.

    Local govt doesn't want to budget for treatment because of this. Ok fine. THEN CLOSE SCHOOLS so people get the signal to take it seriously. 2 weeks ago they were just plain lazy, and the public paid the price.

    There are ZERO plows down here. International city my ****. It's just the biggest hillbilly town.

    Ok enough about that. hey, YOU stay warm too! I've been to CHI in Jan: brrrrrr!
  16.    #16  
    @ John S.

    i've read enough to know that you're one of our Doctor Gurus. Your super scripts i'm sure have helped a lot of people.

    I'm not one of them, however, because that process you explained above is WAY over my head. And i'm pretty technical, i did do my Franken conversion. I can't believe i actually did it. I would need very clear step-by-step to do what you're describing above.

    But there are plenty of people buying these phones used as their first smart phone because they are cheap and plentiful on ebay. These people probably don't have a clue about WOSQI or Preware, let alone metadoctors. Yet right out of the box, they're experience App Cert failure.

    One of the best "plug n play" features of webOS is the Doctor and the OTA updates, and the inability to 'brick' the phone. Without HP support, this feature has died. It deserves reviving. And the paragraph above illustrates the complexity that demands the simplification of a new Dr. release.

    IF WE (meaning, probably, YOU) were to build the Dr's for HP (or whoever owns the rights now?) maybe we could get them to approve and release it as "official". It's not like it'd need a follow-up ever again. Just one last one that fixes what has been found and is correctable. We do the work, they get the credit, but all webOS users reap the benefit.

    Of course that's trying to adhere to legality, which i'm ok with. I'm also ok with 'going rogue' and distributing a guerilla doctor because i have such little respect for HP. but that's just me and i dont expect anyone else to think same.

    i'd do whatever is necessary to make it happen if there was a path we could identify is worth following. I think it's needed, and i think (know) we're the only ones who care. Can we make it so easy for HP to do that they can't refuse? Can we create and give them what we all want?

    and that's just the software part...
    Last edited by TJs11thPre; 02/14/2014 at 04:11 AM.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by mattmers View Post
    I think the main problem with the LTE pre 2/3 idea is that most processor makers are integrating the LTE into the chips so their is no separate comm board. (from my understanding) At that point we might as well look into starting from scratch.
    ...as far as the hardware part, THIS is what is at the core i guess. IS THERE hardware that exists which could be force-fit into the space a Pre2 comm board occupies?

    if its integrated in newer phones, then NO. I think the Pre3 is integrated.

    But SOME COMPANY fabricated that Pre/Pre2 comm board. The CDMA and the GSM board.

    Does that company still make comm hardware for other phones? Can they develop a replacement comm board upon the existing, but with newer chips? The end result being, instead of us seeking new phones, we just seek the part we need, the new comm board.

    THANKS GUYS for your input here. This is what i was hoping for. Gets my gears turning. NIN_RU's innovation with A-Chroot has me wondering what else is possible when you refuse to accept no for an answer.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    John,

    It would be great if you could share this with us! Based on this I might also have some other ideas I could work out I think for the IPK you can just point to [How To] Retain App IPKs from App Catalog
    YOU ALSO have "webOS guru" status in my mind, based on what i've read here, continually working to contribute to the "2014 webOS experience".

    and that experience is NOT dead. a year ago, we were all heartbroken about the ending of the product line.

    but a year later, we're all still using webOS phones. we're all using phones so ahead of their time with regard to innovation and style, that we haven't abandoned them, they are still actually competent, and new users are getting on board every day with ebay purchases and similar.

    these phones WORK. mine is running freetether 12-16 hours DAILY these last few months. it's functioning better than ever.

    but "how-to's" which require using a command line and commands like "mount rw -o remount blah blah blah" are NOT going to work for anyone who can't handle it. That's the purpose of a Dr. in my mind. "click click click, just fix it. heal thyself, phone!"

    idk what i'm talking about anymore. i better go to zzz. thanks again guys.
  19. #19  
    I really would like a doctor that includes the root certificate fix and maybe a few other things but I know that's not very likely. These days I'm just happy when stuff doesn't break or a fix is released to keep things running.
    Devices: Pre3 16GB (AT&T - webOS 2.2.4) | White TouchPad 4G 32GB (AT&T - webOS 3.0.5 + LunaCE)
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJs11thPre View Post
    I'd suggest common sense is the final arbiter. There are problems with 2.2.4 that, if HP still supported webOS, would have addressed with an OTA update. That is what I want. A "final version" that fixes what was missing.

    You'll still personalize the phone. But it would be on top of a fresh doctoring that finally eliminates the bugs HP never got.
    I'd agree with this. 2.2.4 had some nice improvements, but went backwards in places that I couldn't live with. and most patches weren't available to work with it, if I recall correctly.

    An interesting aside, I have been using the Veer since HP's debacle and I have seen people start to come around to my way of thinking. I used to get comments about 'how small the phone is and how can you use it?' and recently, people have been commenting more along the lines of I need something like that. I think the line has blurred between phones and tablets and some people just want to go back to a phone that can be smart, but unobtrusive. Of course the other side is that I panicked for half an hour the other day when I couldn't find my phone and it was in my pocket the whole time and you don't even want to watch my wife try to find it in her purse!

    bottom line is that there is still life left in these phones!!
    guilledil likes this.
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