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  1.    #1  
    So I wanted the touchpad a while back when it first come out and knew that there where phones that run the same operating system. Well I ended up not buying it and going with a android device that was really clunky. So this year I bought a new phone xperia z ultra and I love it everything was going well until I began to run in to problems. When booting up it would not connect to internet or anything it wouldn't run slow I just couldn't do anything because it would not pick up service or connect to internet. I eventually called sony and got everything sorted out to send the phone back. So I sent the phone back a couple days later. I ended up on ebay searching for phones and for some reason started looking up older phones. I am a person that loves old and technology. I just love technology. I wanted a real small phone so I can have a huge phone when I needed it and a huge phone. I began searching ebay and something hit me to look up webos phones. I looked up the veer 4g and the pre 3 both looked really nice but the pre 3 was a little pricy for just a back up phone. Even though I already wasted 99.99 on a phone that doesn't work with no returns stupid me. You live and you learn.

    So I bid on a veer 4g not really thinking I was going to get. I bid around $36 but the shipping made it $42. I was the first to bid so I was thinking someone was going to bid over me anyway. I mean it had two days left and it was only $42 but no one bidder over me I ended up getting the phone a couple days later opening it and having problems with downloading apps but after reading the forums on here figured out to fix it and downloaded a twitter app and Facebook app. I actually unlocked it also and had it running on t-mobile which it can connect to t-mobile 3g from what I can see.

    Well after using the phone for a couple a days I actually like it better than android and probably find it hard to go back to even after a few days. It is fast it looks pretty and now I kind of knew of it before and instead of dishing out 680 for my phone now getting a pre 3. I wish a new phone with webos would come out with a faster processor and a better camera. The one thing that I don't like about webos is they are low on the apps and they are not as good as the android apps. But android has years to update and get better unlike the webos device where the os is kind of dead. I am actually thinking about bidding on a pre 3. I really don't want to do this and get caught up in another phone. I hope I will actually be able to go back to my ZU but I am not missing it much more because of my veer. I wish this os was not dead and they would bring it back it would be amazing and my next phone. Haha a guy can dream right? New dream phone is not running android anymore. My dream phone would be running webos.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 12/04/2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: paragraphs are your friend - fixed thread title
  2. #2  
    Why oh Why?

    So many theories so many issues, first, the Pre, look over the forum, Sprint issues, software issues (webOS 1.x, updating every month), but the main issues was hardware issues...

    I can only tell you from the view of a Verizon PrePlus (Still my daily driver)...

    It came with webOS 1.3.5, which was quickly updated to 1.4.0...1.4.5, (there is an update to webOS 1.4.5.1 but I was already on 2.1.0 when it was released)...

    The biggest issue to me is the Carrier, Palm should have taken control over the hardware and software, not allowing the Carrier to approve...

    Most PrePlus's out side of the user in this forum, never went to webOS 2.1.0, why Carriers did not approve the update... Only O2/SFR did...

    Palm biggest down fall next was advertising, they could not tell people why webOS was better, as been reported once you go to webOS all other Phone OS's will seem like 1990... Even iOS 7.x seems so 1990, (My wife has an iPhone4S and an iPad Mini) or Android Jelly Bean (I know Matias Duarte is trying to morph into webOS), but it still does not have the UI like webOS did...

    HP - why announce Veer, Pre3 and Touchpad when you can not deliver...

    Then the big kicker, lets release the Touchpad throw a few AD's that do not really show the UI, then price it at the same as an iPad... Come on... Dumb Dumb Dumb...

    But the history is all there for all to read why their were issues... The biggest one that was not discussed is the Carrier and their Approval... Developers I will not even get into that...
  3. #3  
    One of the biggest problems with the original Pre, in retrospect, is that they were simply under-clocked. They run sooo much better starting at 800mhz. Laggy (I hate that word) scrolling and general lack of snappy-ness were not overlooked by anyone that was not a webOS fan (read: general consumer familiar with Android or iOS). Also, there were a number of APIs Palm never (or too late in the case of camera and sound capture) provided to developers to allow certain apps users were asking for (Shazam anyone?) I have always been a huge webOS fan, but I do see the shortcomings the devices have.
  4. #4  
    I think to sell well a phone has to become popular somehow, and that never happened before it was killed. Nothing to do with apps, build quality, etc
  5. #5  
    The first run of the Pre had some hardware issues. Open the slider and get a long reboot. That was a total turn off. Even units in the stores did that.
  6.    #6  
    I mean if I can get webos running a newer phone with a larger screen and better specs I would buy it as quick as I can. It actually quicker to me and I love the keybored. Now android seems really clunky and I never really like iOS. Even though iOS seems to be closer to webos. It may just be me. I am glad I bought this phone as a back up. It runs really well it is quick and it is fun to play with the card style swiping them away and such.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by TechTechGoose View Post
    So I wanted the touchpad a while back when it first come out and knew that there where phones that run the same operating system. Well I ended up not buying it and going with a android device that was really clunky. So this year I bought a new phone xperia z ultra and I love it everything was going well until I began to run in to problems. When booting up it would not connect to internet or anything it wouldn't run slow I just couldn't do anything because it would not pick up service or connect to internet. I eventually called sony and got everything sorted out to send the phone back. So I sent the phone back a couple days later. I ended up on ebay searching for phones and for some reason started looking up older phones. I am a person that loves old and technology. I just love technology. I wanted a real small phone so I can have a huge phone when I needed it and a huge phone. I began searching ebay and something hit me to look up webos phones. I looked up the veer 4g and the pre 3 both looked really nice but the pre 3 was a little pricy for just a back up phone. Even though I already wasted 99.99 on a phone that doesn't work with no returns stupid me. You live and you learn. So I bid on a veer 4g not really thinking I was going to get. I bid around $36 but the shipping made it $42. I was the first to bid so I was thinking someone was going to bid over me anyway. I mean it had two days left and it was only $42 but no one bidder over me I ended up getting the phone a couple days later opening it and having problems with downloading apps but after reading the forums on here figured out to fix it and downloaded a twitter app and Facebook app. I actually unlocked it also and had it running on t-mobile which it can connect to t-mobile 3g from what I can see. Well after using the phone for a couple a days I actually like it better than android and probably find it hard to go back to even after a few days. It is fast it looks pretty and now I kind of knew of it before and instead of dishing out 680 for my phone now getting a pre 3. I wish a new phone with webos would come out with a faster processor and a better camera. The one thing that I don't like about webos is they are low on the apps and they are not as good as the android apps. But android has years to update and get better unlike the webos device where the os is kind of dead. I am actually thinking about bidding on a pre 3. I really don't want to do this and get caught up in another phone. I hope I will actually be able to go back to my ZU but I am not missing it much more because of my veer. I wish this os was not dead and they would bring it back it would be amazing and my next phone. Haha a guy can dream right? New dream phone is not running android anymore. My dream phone would be running webos.
    yeah all your "wishes" are ours too. youre a little late to the (pity) party but still welcome to cry over the cake that spoiled long ago.

    enjoy your veer while you can. dont get caught up in it more than that. it will just hurt more later.
    mdram likes this.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The first run of the Pre had some hardware issues. Open the slider and get a long reboot. That was a total turn off. Even units in the stores did that.
    It true that there were issues with hardware and so forth. But success has more to do with luck, timing, advertising name recognition, cool, etc.

    They could have released a phone that bested the iphone in all respects and it would have mattered little
  9. #9  
    I think the Verge writeup really answered why the devices never sold. They were late to market when they launched the Pre by several months. They made the mistake of launching as a Sprint exclusive. There were a lot of updates to fix things that got pushed out at a delayed pace by carriers. Palm had no money to actually put into improving the devices and competing.

    In my opinion, it came down to advertising. They didn't advertise much at all, and the ads they did buy were weird and didn't even show people why webOS was a better mobile OS. The Pixi and Veer had a few decent ads, but the marketing push should've been far larger.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by TechTechGoose View Post
    Well after using the phone for a couple a days I actually like it better than android and probably find it hard to go back to even after a few days. It is fast it looks pretty and now I kind of knew of it before and instead of dishing out 680 for my phone now getting a pre 3. I wish a new phone with webos would come out with a faster processor and a better camera. The one thing that I don't like about webos is they are low on the apps and they are not as good as the android apps. But android has years to update and get better unlike the webos device where the os is kind of dead. I am actually thinking about bidding on a pre 3. I really don't want to do this and get caught up in another phone. I hope I will actually be able to go back to my ZU but I am not missing it much more because of my veer. I wish this os was not dead and they would bring it back it would be amazing and my next phone. Haha a guy can dream right? New dream phone is not running android anymore. My dream phone would be running webos.
    I'm sorry for you. Welcome in our world. You now are spoiled, like the rest of us and can't easily switch to another OS.

    I wish you all the best... I'm so spoiled, none of the other mobile OSes out there could satisfy me (will try Sailfish, but I'm not convinced, yet... Windows Phone was a little hope, but looking closer it still is not close to webOS pleasure of use). So I'm spending all my spare time to work on open webOS and hope in getting it of my Galaxy Nexus some day... If you would have asked here before buying a Veer, I probably would have warned you. Now it's too late.
  11. #11  
    Apps. Its (mostly) about the apps, though i guess that was a symptom of the disease - that very few really supported it. There is no kindle for the phones, only the touchpad and by then android and IOS has kindle apps for years. The only ebook app (aside from preader) was kobo and they never bothered to updated it for webos 2.x. There's no netflix app at all, and a lot of popular games never bothered with webos.

    That said, I can see why they did what they did with sprint. AT&T had the iPhone. Verizon had the droid, at lease Palm could be the big fish in the pond somewhere and get the posters on the front window of the store.

    that's why everyone was hopeful when HP bought them. HP was going to do what microsoft is doing now for their mobile platform - keep pushing the things until there is some traction, no matter how long it takes
  12. Alberto8's Avatar
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    #12  
    In my experience a lot of people where psyched about the original pre. There was a lot of good will from the public when it launched. I bought one for my son and he loved it. However, palm and later HP failed to keep the momentum going by not introducing newer handsets. I have a pre3 which I love but I don't use much anymore due to having too small of a screen. As I am getting older, I need a bigger, brighter screen than I used to so I can see well. In contrast, my BB Z10 has a phenomenal sharp and bright screen. I miss using the Pre3. I still have my trusty 4g touchpad. I use it every day.
    HelloNNNewman and Vistaus like this.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    One of the biggest problems with the original Pre, in retrospect, is that they were simply under-clocked. They run sooo much better starting at 800mhz. Laggy (I hate that word) scrolling and general lack of snappy-ness were not overlooked by anyone that was not a webOS fan (read: general consumer familiar with Android or iOS). Also, there were a number of APIs Palm never (or too late in the case of camera and sound capture) provided to developers to allow certain apps users were asking for (Shazam anyone?) I have always been a huge webOS fan, but I do see the shortcomings the devices have.
    Shazam? We have SongID. It's far off from being as good as Shazam but point is: it does prove there's an API for that.
  14. #14  
    IMHO the phones are pretty much dead in terms of mostly apps. However, the Touchpad still has some of the nicer apps compared to other platforms and as a developer for the Touchpad, I'm still seeing a life ahead for the Touchpad.

    Btw, am I the only one who actually loves the Pre 3's keyboard layout? I mean, I did try out a Q10 in store the other day and typing on it went pretty well but it lacked in comparison to the Pre 3. IMHO the Pre 3's keys are easier to hit and using symbols (from the kb itself, not the special ones on-screen) is more intuitive.
    ananimus likes this.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    Shazam? We have SongID. It's far off from being as good as Shazam but point is: it does prove there's an API for that.
    My point (which I guess could have been more clear) was that the API needed for Shazam-like apps came years too late. People gave up waiting. SongID was too little too late for consumers (no offense to the dev, it looks like a nice app). Thanks for the app name though - I was trying to think of it the other day.

    And I agree, the Pre3 keyboard is awesome. Even the Pre/2 keyboard felt great until I got used to the larger Pre3 keyboard.
    Last edited by Grabber5.0; 12/05/2013 at 05:46 PM.
  16. #16  
    I agree that the API came too late. But at least we have something now, that's still better than nothing
  17. #17  
    Back in 2009 Palm - a once great company - was already much reduced.
    Nokia and Symbian were still big and IOS and Android already growing very fast.
    Blackberry was still big.
    Windows Mobile had low and shrinking market share and would soon be dropped entirely.

    But Palm still had good engineers and a good name and still some cash left (or at least a sizable chunk lent by Venture Capitalists). And it's engineers managed to create an OS for mobile that was years ahead of the competition - plus a couple of nice ideas like the Touchstone.

    But it was clear that money would run out in the foresseeable future so they had to move fast and get enough market share before IOS and Android conquer everything.

    So they showed a prototype to great fanfare and rushed a marketable product to market.
    But the constraints showed. The many early Touchstones - really nice gadgets - had often trouble due to the placing of the induction spool and many of the early Pres also had issues with its casing (see "oreo" effect and split cases, etc...). Also - while the OS is brilliant - it wasn't quite finished at launch. There were monthly updates for over half a year and it took until CES in early 2010 that we can consider webos to be at 1.0 (video app, market available in more countries and many small fixes).

    The specs of the Pre was competitive with the IPhone - but a rush of new Android devices made people expect ever more hardware features and Palm only had a slight refresh as answer ith the Pre2 (which was not even available in many markets).

    On another front early marketing was a fail. Palm had Verizon as launch parner - but Verizon cancelled the deal. So Palm had to sell via Sprint. It was very similar in Europe where Palm made exclusive deals with O2. Both Sprint and O2 had big ad campaigns (they really wanted a good alternative to the IPhone - which was exclusive at the time - only available via AT&T in the US for example). The problem was that these were smaller networks at a time when almost all smartphone sales where through mobile network providers.

    So launch was riddled with problems on all fronts. Weird ads, not enough marketing budget to fix these quickly everywhere, unfinished software, hardware issues.

    And of course the worst problem: Smartphones need apps. Any old feature phone allows you to make phone calls, take pictures, send messages, even emails, or even do some small organizer stuff like taking notes and appointments. Smartphones can do all these better, but the real deal is that a smartphone is not so much a phone, but a small PC. And like a PC it needs applications. Nobody wants to use Windows or MacOSX or Linux by itself. An OS is just a platform to run applications on.

    Given that webos was the nth platform (after IOS, Android, Blackbery and even soo-to-be-killed Windows Mobile) it had trouble attracting developers. A dev trying to make money had to support IOS and likely Android (especially at that time). Blackberry and Windows Mobile were still old and big enough that they got a decent amount of attention.
    There where some really nice apps available - and the list was growing (and Palm tried to get the most bang for their buck by having a competition going with a couple million in total price money).
    But for many people there was always this or that killer app missing (Netflix, etc...)

    So in 2010 webos had still the most advanced OS, most of the early bugs were fixed and there were a minimal but growing list of apps available with many promising things on the horizon. But a combination of the early problems and an explosion of Android devices made many people doubt that Palm could survive that. And this perception can easily lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy - users and devs and even vendors "invest" time and money (or just shelf space) in platforms they deem likely to be succesful enough.

    All of these problems were fixable. With enough patience and money all that could be solved in a year or 2. After all Android had a rocky start to. In the early days it lacked apps, the devices had issues and there weren't that many apps. All the money was made on IPhones back then.
    But Palm could see their money running out before they got there. So they tried to find a big player to sell themselves to - and found them: HP.

    It seemed like a perfect match at the time. Palm had a great platform - it only lacked money and influence. HP was the worlds bigest PC vendor and had interests in peactically all segments of IT - but lacked presence in the fast exploding mobile market. A HP that takes over Palm could potentially beat Apple at Apples game (integrated shop whcih proves the hardware, the os and controls the app market).

    And that was the plan of the then CEO of HP.
    And for a short while things looked great. HP said the right things, announced new devices (underwhelming in some regards - but still a solid step forward). For a few months it looked like webos now had the resources and connections to grow out of its small niche. And this time bigger partners were on board.

    And then - as if there was a curse on webos - things started to fell apart. HP kicked out its CEO. It took them a while to find another one. At times like these companies don't make great strategic investments and managers within a big company vie for new positions or try to protect their existing turfs.

    When Leo Apotheker toom over as CEOit again seemed like things were back on track. He said mostly the right things and traveled the world to better understand this big company he has to manage. Later it turns out that he actually tried to avoid to appear at court as a witness regarding a big lawsuit. And in hindsight it seems clear to me that he was hired (and replaced Mark Hurd) to move HP out of consumer markets and make it more like IBM (focused on business). Later revelations showed that HP upper management was busy with turf wars and backstabbing and had no time to actually properly manage their global enterprise in a sane way.

    And then things crumbled very fast. The new line of webos hardware had a lacklustre launch by a company that tried to get out of the consumer business, had lied about their strategy to custumers, suppliers and business partners. Old devices didn't get updates anymore. Within weeks of of the launch earlier promises abput features and sevices didn't materialze or were dropped. And soon after HP had to rush an announcement that it now only loves Enterprise, invests 10 bn into another enterprise company (that later turns out to be close to worthless) and wants to sell it's consumer busines. And as that includes its mobile business it obviously idn't see much point in invsting into market share for webos - when it wants to get out of that market - thus it annunced the end of webos and firesales all devices.

    Within a single year HP switched from a "let's be like Apply" strategy to a "let's be like IBM" strategy and totally botched the execution of that silly plan. It then found out that seelling it's PC business would mean less bargaining power in various markets and therefore higher costs everywhere.

    So instead of saving Palm and webos HP took both down with it.

    I'm still using my Pre3 and IMHO it stil has the best OS on the market. But the devices get ever more outdated and hardly any new apps appear anymore (ironic thing about the earlier collapse was that the firesale lead to a short second spring for webos - with many new apps coming out shortly after HP killed the OS - thanks to a sudden rise in market share - though that was naturally short-term).

    And if only the browser would get updates I would continue to use the Pre3 for at least another year or 2. Most apps are just convenient small device adaptations of web sites anyway. With ever more web sites offering mobile versions apps aren't that important to me (and the existing games are sufficient for my mobile gaming needs).

    I'll propbably switch to Android in a few months as it doesn't look like openwebos is getting any really usable versions out in time.

    I have a Nexus 7 (I prefer 7" over 10") and I would replace Android today with webos if I could just install it and have an up-to-date browser and a handful of core apps.
    Android is nice enough, but webos is still better. On the Nexus I miss the easy flowing gestures, the great Synergy contacts, the Touchstone (all Qi devices so far suffer from being ugly), the better multi-tasking of webos and various other details that IOS and Android are still catching up to - a freakin 4 years after webos arrived (notifications on webos is still better - but Android has almost caught up there).

    Long story short - Palm had the vision and engineering competence - but lacked resources and connections and was also clearly cursed with a string of bad luck events.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  18. #18  
    "If only the browser would get updates"

    If only someone would help me with WebView on the Pre 3. Isis Web is already there, the only thing that needs to be done is get WebView to work on the Pre 3. Yet, even after begging no one wants to help me. Yet, more and people complain about the Pre 3 browser. Instead of complaining, invest that time in helping me, I'd say. Either you help me and get a more modern browser to run on the Pre 3 so that you can continue to use the most awesome phone on earth, or just complain until your hair turns gray and leave us behind to sail to Android shore.
    I really don't get why no one wants to help but keep complaining... that doesn't help you get a more modern browser.
  19. #19  
    I think the big issue for better browsers is Time and Developers, Not to many people understand how to code, and those that do, do not have the time to work on it...

    Just my thoughts...

    I wish I had time to figure out how to update webKit as I want to update all webOS devices not just the Pre3 (Even though I have one it is not my daily driver)...
  20. #20  
    Well, if one has time to write a long *** forum post, one has time for sure to look at the code. You don't need to be an educated dev to help me out, just glancing the code and tell me what prevents Isis from connecting with WebView on the Pre 3 so I can fix it is all that's needed...

    I'm sorry to say this but if that little thing is too much to ask then webOS is already dead because no one has time to help one of the few remaining devs beyond writing complaint after complaint...
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