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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    How do you know that the iPhone just sells to repeat customers?

    Didn't Apple move to additional carriers? You are saying it's OK when Palm does it (updates) yet bad when Apple does it. That's my only issue here.
    I didn't say it was bad (why?) when Apple upgrades, but all of us here who are debating you, are saying that it's the compulsively upgrading (before the contract is up) repeat customers who are blinded by love (and think Apple could do no wrong) that qualify for the "iSheep" label.

    I personally haven't used that label against anyone, but I don't like those types of people either. They think they are somehow superior (not that the platform is, but they personally are), and I prefer to leave them thinking that if they want to, but emperor has no clothes.

    We know how webOS is still half-baked in many regards and will readily admit that, but for those people it is often "holy war" if anyone criticises Apple even slightly
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
    My wife has an iPhone4S, she had Android (Gingerbread, Motorola Droid), she hated android...

    She did not like my phone, she is not techie and wanted something that works, without learning the OS...

    She loves here iPhone4S, not because it is apple, but because it just works for her, to her it is like a toaster, you put bread in you set the dial lite, brown, dark and her bread is toasted to her likings...

    The iOS experience is just that it is transparent to her needs, she does not want to muck with patches, she does not want multi-tasking, she wants to use her phone, perform an action, and then put it away...

    She does use apps, but one at a time, and she prefers that...

    The apple experience works for so many because it puts one in control of their actions...

    There are others who wish to modify the source (webOS and Android) and create a OS that suits them, but some just like the plain toaster...

    iOS7 to her is scary it is trying to change her toaster to a counter top oven, yes it can toast, but it can cook meats, pizza's and turkeys... She is a vegetarian why does she want to cook a turkey...

    Apple is going to change what some people like as a transparent OS, to a Mutli-tasking, swiping up for settings, down for notifications, some people are going to hate iOS7... can we stop the OTA updates they will ask...

    webOS works for so much of us because we want to modify our Phone to our design and make it do things the original source code did not do, but some just want a toaster, iPhone works well for that...
    Thanks for bringing the thread back on topic

    The inane, pointless debate should not have become the "centerpiece" and the main attraction
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    I didn't say it was bad (why?) when Apple upgrades, but all of us here who are debating you, are saying that it's the compulsively upgrading (before the contract is up) repeat customers who are blinded by love (and think Apple could do no wrong) that qualify for the "iSheep" label.

    I personally haven't used that label against anyone, but I don't like those types of people either. They think they are somehow superior (not that the platform is, but they personally are), and I prefer to leave them thinking that if they want to, but emperor has no clothes.

    We know how webOS is still half-baked in many regards and will readily admit that, but for those people it is often "holy war" if anyone criticises Apple even slightly
    It sounds like you are doing the same thing. People buy things that work for them. Simple.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    It sounds like you are doing the same thing. People buy things that work for them. Simple.
    How so?

    I have a Verizon Pre+ with a crack on the USB port side and my contract is up (since April of last year). By your logic, I should have upgraded to a Pre2 when it was available and then hunted down a Pre3. I haven't.

    I don't think that owning such a humble phone makes me any worse or better than anyone else. I don't obsess over what people think when they see me using a phone
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    How so?

    I have a Verizon Pre+ with a crack on the USB port side and my contract is up (since April of last year). By your logic, I should have upgraded to a Pre2 when it was available and then hunted down a Pre3. I haven't.

    I don't think that owning such a humble phone makes me any worse or better than anyone else. I don't obsess over what people think when they see me using a phone
    And this relates to apple how?

    I have a Pixi on Sprint where the back and sides are peeling off. That's my only phone.

    I think the iPhone is slick, hate Android and believe WebOS was not thought out correctly from the start. It was a better graphic, step down from Palm OS. That's why it failed. It didn't do anything well other than opening multiple cards.
  6.    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Why not?

    Palm was at the edge of bankruptcy and could only afford to spend money on incremental improvements, and preferred to reuse old parts and moulds as much as possible.

    The Pre- design predated webOS and by the time webOS was created (first by two guys, striking out on their own and later built out with the help of a few other engineers), component orders have already been placed and nothing could be done about having inadequate RAM size.

    The Pre+ is a Pre- with doubled RAM, a revised gesture area and a "free" soft touch/matte Touchstone back, which was previously a somewhat expensive add-on. The loose battery issue was "solved" and it debuted on a better CDMA carrier. Another "freebie" on VZW Pre+ was a 5GB hotspot plan.

    The phone want from turd to decent (usable!), even though the hardware was still not on par with now offerings like the iPhone 4. The Pre2 had an updated screen and mainboard while still reusing chassis, backs, batteries and commboards, and was an attempt to bridge the gap.

    The Pre2 was finally a worthy webOS phone, something that in the perfect world Palm should have launched with instead of the Pre-, but they couldn't just hop from point A to point C.

    Believe what you want, the information is out there.

    Apple released incremental upgrades because their customers have money and will drop everything to get the newest version. Palm released incremental upgrades because their product sucked and they didn't have the money to fix it in one shot.

    He is 100% correct on that actually.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmarquis9 View Post
    He is 100% correct on that actually.
    That's all revisionist history.

    On one hand he says the iPhone was a "turd" to "decent" but the reason for upgrades was because the user base had money burning a whole in their pockets - to the Pre was bad band needed to be upgraded.

    It's been my point in this thread.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    And this relates to apple how?
    You're trying to compare me to my definition of the "iSheep" syndrome and i'm telling you how the comparison doesn't stick. Apple didn't create the "iSheep" BTW. They were always there, before appearing in the context of mobile industry. Most likely, they were obsessing over handbags instead... Or other kinds of fashion accessories...

    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    I have a Pixi on Sprint where the back and sides are peeling off. That's my only phone.
    Eww. If you have an extra $4, you should really get a replacement back for it. Amazon.com: Palm Computing Div. Pixi Touchstone Back Cover: Cell Phones & Accessories

    It only takes 10 seconds to swap covers, once you get it in the mail.
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    I think the iPhone is slick, hate Android and believe WebOS was not thought out correctly from the start. It was a better graphic, step down from Palm OS. That's why it failed. It didn't do anything well other than opening multiple cards.
    I like cards, gestures, the Touchstone and Synergy. I also like Palm's tolerance and even encouragement of homebrew...
    Vistaus likes this.
  9.    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    You're trying to compare me to my definition of the "iSheep" syndrome and i'm telling you how the comparison doesn't stick. Apple didn't create the "iSheep" BTW. They were always there, before appearing in the context of mobile industry. Most likely, they were obsessing over handbags instead... Or other kinds of fashion accessories...



    Eww. If you have an extra $4, you should really get a replacement back for it. Amazon.com: Palm Computing Div. Pixi Touchstone Back Cover: Cell Phones & Accessories

    It only takes 10 seconds to swap covers, once you get it in the mail.


    I like cards, gestures, the Touchstone and Synergy. I also like Palm's tolerance and even encouragement of homebrew...

    I remember back in the day when palm said they encourage homebrew but sprint would force legal action :/
    They should have went with Verizon from the beginning
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmarquis9 View Post
    I remember back in the day when palm said they encourage homebrew but sprint would force legal action :/
    They should have went with Verizon from the beginning
    They tried, but Verizon wasn't impressed with the Pre- hardware..

    Then they went with Sprint, but that was before webOS as we know it was created based on WebKit
  11. #71  
    Sprint was a huge Treo and Centro seller. It wasn't that unusual for Palm to go with Sprint.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmarquis9 View Post
    I remember back in the day when palm said they encourage homebrew but sprint would force legal action :/
    They should have went with Verizon from the beginning
    If they had gone with Verizon, it might have been stillborn. I know that was before the Droid revolution at Verizon, but look at how they crippled the GPS.
    Last edited by Grabber5.0; 07/12/2013 at 06:10 PM.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    If they had gone with Verizon, it might have been stillborn. I know that was before the Droid revolution at Verizon, but look at how they crippled the GPS.
    And then remember how Verizon turned down the 1st gen iPhone because they couldn't own the App Store?
  14.    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    And then remember how Verizon turned down the 1st gen iPhone because they couldn't own the App Store?
    You know this is becoming more of a history class than a forum lol
    Vistaus likes this.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmarquis9 View Post
    You know this is becoming more of a history class than a forum lol
    Yep. If anyone wants more Palm history, read this: Palm: I'm ready to wallow now

    followed by this: Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge

    And speaking of Verizon, here's something to break up the monotony
    [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXa3Ic5BiCg[/YT]
    ananimus likes this.
  16.    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Yep. If anyone wants more Palm history, read this: Palm: I'm ready to wallow now

    followed by this: Pre to postmortem: the inside story of the death of Palm and webOS | The Verge

    And speaking of Verizon, here's something to break up the monotony
    lol
  17.    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    And then remember how Verizon turned down the 1st gen iPhone because they couldn't own the App Store?
    The 1st gen iphone didnt have a app store when it launched. The app store can with a ios 2.0 update! At&t (cingular) already was the exclusive carrier.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmarquis9 View Post
    The 1st gen iphone didnt have a app store when it launched. The app store can with a ios 2.0 update! At&t (cingular) already was the exclusive carrier.
    I mean that Verizon was trying to pressure Steve Jobs to have the iPhone use the Verizon V-Cast store, to sell music, ringtones, etc. He refused and went to Cingular, who had no such ambitions...

    Apple was interested in launching the iPhone on Verizon due to the better network, but Verizon was already used to selling content and believed that the right to do so belongs to the carrier. Apple had iTunes, so the two could never reconcile on how to sell music.


    With the amazing success of the iPhone, starting with the 1st gen, Verizon realized their mistake and in the months and years that followed, started working on their DROID monopoly, which we see now.

    Verizon later used Palm (with the Pre+) to pressure Google for more favorable terms. You see a pattern here?

    The Big Red has always wanted to own everything that they sell. Crippling GPS was "business as usual"
    Last edited by Remy X; 07/13/2013 at 01:02 PM.
  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    I mean that Verizon was trying to pressure Steve Jobs to have the iPhone use the Verizon V-Cast store, to sell music, ringtones, etc. He refused and went to Cingular, who had no such ambitions...

    Apple was interested in launching the iPhone on Verizon due to the better network, but Verizon was already used to selling content and believed that the right to do so belongs to the carrier. Apple had iTunes, so the two could never reconcile on how to sell music.


    With the amazing success of the iPhone, starting with the 1st gen, Verizon realized their mistake and in the months and years that followed, started working on their DROID monopoly, which we see now.

    Verizon later used Palm (with the Pre+) to pressure Google for more favorable terms. You see a pattern here?

    The Big Red has always wanted to own everything that they sell. Crippling GPS was "business as usual"

    Now i do understand and that is true i'm currently with at&t and the only stupid mistake they made was cancelling their unlimited data plan .
  20. #80  
    There were other TV spots than the one Verge picked out. But it does indicate that Palm really had no target user for the Pre.

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