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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Didn't Palm do the same thing? Pre + a year after the Pre? The Pre 2 six months after that?
    Moot point.

    The Pre- was a wreck when it launched on Sprint. The Pre+ launched on Verizon instead and the first adopters on Sprint were all quite pi**ed, being stuck on contract with a slow, buggy Pre- on a third rate carrier.

    The Pre+ had double the memory (a major usability boost) and replaced the gesture area button with a three LED strip, shipped with a Touchstone-capable back by default. The loose battery was tightened in place by using a sticker. All in all, they were fixing what sucked, in order for Verizon to even consider selling the Pre.

    The Pre2 reused a fair amount of Pre parts and shipped with a faster CPU, further addressing the lag issue while upgrading to Java-free webOS 2.1. Still did't make it to Sprint, but here you finally see a "respectable" phone while Palm continued to use up the old parts.


    Apple has always had the luxury of working out product issues before launch, while Palm here played catch-up, releasing a half-baked product and patching it with OTA updates. Money issues and tight deadlines are obvious in Palm's case, a company at the edge of death. If anyone upgraded in droves, it was a small but technical group of Pre- users, who built FrankenPre2's without breaking the Sprint Pre- contract.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    The Pre wasn't a "hit". By the time of the Pre Plus, the iPhone 4 was being released, the EVO was out and people were still in the contracts with the Pre until 2011 (with a 2 year plan).
    so was the newer pre more like damage control or was it a much needed update?
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    so was the newer pre more like damage control or was it a much needed update?
    The Pre+ was getting their **** together to launch on another carrier

    It's a miracle that the Pre- was working as well as it was by the Sprint launch deadline, but it was not even close to making a good first impression for webOS. Not enough money, not enough time, not enough engineers. The Pre+ was a chance to straighten out some of the flaws
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Moot point.
    You can't dismiss reality and simply say moot point. You are making excuses for the Pre and Palm. The reality is they released 3 updates of the Pre in a year and a half.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    so was the newer pre more like damage control or was it a much needed update?
    They were like other smart phone manufacturers. New, improved phones get released. No big deal.
    Last edited by rnld; 07/11/2013 at 11:31 PM.
  6. cgk
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    difference is that people here are still using old pre models and are happy with it, if they were true "sheep" they would do the expected thing for sheep and all upgrade to veers or pre3's without fail.

    thats the major difference to the hardcore enthusiasts here and "sheep" elsewhere.
    But that's what someone with the one true faith would say...
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You can't dismiss reality and simply say moot point. You are making excuses for the Pre and Palm. The reality is they released 3 updates of the Pre in a year and a half.
    Why not?

    Palm was at the edge of bankruptcy and could only afford to spend money on incremental improvements, and preferred to reuse old parts and moulds as much as possible.

    The Pre- design predated webOS and by the time webOS was created (first by two guys, striking out on their own and later built out with the help of a few other engineers), component orders have already been placed and nothing could be done about having inadequate RAM size.

    The Pre+ is a Pre- with doubled RAM, a revised gesture area and a "free" soft touch/matte Touchstone back, which was previously a somewhat expensive add-on. The loose battery issue was "solved" and it debuted on a better CDMA carrier. Another "freebie" on VZW Pre+ was a 5GB hotspot plan.

    The phone want from turd to decent (usable!), even though the hardware was still not on par with now offerings like the iPhone 4. The Pre2 had an updated screen and mainboard while still reusing chassis, backs, batteries and commboards, and was an attempt to bridge the gap.

    The Pre2 was finally a worthy webOS phone, something that in the perfect world Palm should have launched with instead of the Pre-, but they couldn't just hop from point A to point C.

    Believe what you want, the information is out there.

    Apple released incremental upgrades because their customers have money and will drop everything to get the newest version. Palm released incremental upgrades because their product sucked and they didn't have the money to fix it in one shot.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by cgk View Post
    But that's what someone with the one true faith would say...
    maybe, but at least i take comfort in the fact you dont mean me, i have heaps of mostly android and some apple stuff lying around, own various consoles/computers, new and old.

    and i dont believe in any form of "faith".
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmarquis9 View Post
    After buying a new iphone 5 and installing ios 7 on it I decided to get my veer and see which one is better. So i because with the multitasking and in my opinion despite its a beta webos seems more natural and fluid. IOS however seems dull and boring because the preview of the apps are simply snapshots while webos shows a live view of the programs currently running. Next was the web browser, On the veer due to its outdated webkit most pages were laggy, with ios 7 it was the same effect since again it is a beta. Apps on the veer launched flawlessly while iphone apps mainly crashed. I will admit webos may not have many apps while the apple app catalog is massive but all apps for webos barely have any problems and that's why i love webos! Next were the cameras due to the veers lack of zooming and 5mp camera the photos were ok. The iphone 5 pictures looked fresh and amazing but the camera would crash so often it seemed pointless to use. Although i this is a beta it was pretty stable. So my decision is webos is better due to the fact we have amazing users and developer who want to revive webos. I truly hope LG is coming up with a gamer changer!
    Two thirds of iOS apps are never or infrequently downloaded.
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  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Why not?

    Palm was at the edge of bankruptcy and could only afford to spend money on incremental improvements, and preferred to reuse old parts and moulds as much as possible.
    You are making excuses. The bottom line is that Palm released 3 Pre's in a year and a half. You are starting to move the goalposts. Palm did exactly what the other manufacturers did.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    The Pre+ was getting their **** together to launch on another carrier

    It's a miracle that the Pre- was working as well as it was by the Sprint launch deadline, but it was not even close to making a good first impression for webOS. Not enough money, not enough time, not enough engineers. The Pre+ was a chance to straighten out some of the flaws
    Then why have the Pre 2 less than a year after the Pre +? I don't see an issue with it, it simply refutes the Apple "sheep" having new product to buy.

    It can't be explained away that Apple "sheep" had more money as that's silly.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by NoApple View Post
    Two thirds of iOS apps are never or infrequently downloaded.
    Apple's 'Zombie Apps' Cloud App Store's Birthday
    We've had our arguments about app count vs the apps that people actually use. I believe that basing a platform's success off of an app count is ridiculous. I really wish the so called tech "journalist" will stop using the app count as a basis for buying into a platform. Quality of apps available should be used instead of sheer numbers. I still have not found an app/server combo on Android that's as good as Kalemsoft's offering for webOS (I finally settle on Bubble PnP/MX Player but it is not the same). I still prefer the Kindle App on webOS to the one made for Android and the Communities to Tapatalk HD. I'll take a platform with a few good quality apps over one with a bunch of crappy apps anyday.

    iOS does have some good quality apps and, unlike Android, they have a bunch of tablet specific apps. Problem I have with iOS (and Android) is the interface. I think that iOS' interface sucks and Android's is not much better. I think a horrible user interface (on the OS side) takes away from having a bunch of apps. I don't know if any of you were around for Windows 3.11 but it using iOS/Android remind me of using Windows 3.11.
    Rnp likes this.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You are making excuses. The bottom line is that Palm released 3 Pre's in a year and a half. You are starting to move the goalposts. Palm did exactly what the other manufacturers did.
    Yeah, 1st gen Pre and its three revisions (all on the same chassis), the first of which was an exclusive on a small CDMA carrier and a piece of junk. Palm wanted to move beyond that to have any hope of survival. But by your logic, survival and paying back the shareholders are just "excuses"

    Giving the Pre- a "facelift" to convince a different carrier to sell it is a pretty standard practice. This isn't a communist country and carriers reserve the right to pick winners and losers, to sell one product, to stock but "unsell" another and completely reject a third. The Sprint Pre- and Verizon Pre+ were two completely separate markets, but pretty much the same device, the latter with less build quality issues.

    If Palm were on AT&T the whole time and selling each new version to repeat customers, this would be a 1:1 comparison, but it's not
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by xandros9 View Post
    You're kinda comparing webOS to a build of iOS not meant for public use.
    True. But on the other hand: is webOS meant for public use? IMHO it is. But I know a lot of people on here have critized Palm/HP more than once for not getting basic things together, not working on the performance issues etc. So if I count that in then that means webOS hasn't ever been ready for public use either.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Giving the Pre- a "facelift" to convince a different carrier to sell it is a pretty standard practice.
    Indeed. Look at the Samsung Galaxy S3/4 for example with slightly different h/w for each carrier. Or the Lumia 920 vs 928.
    Remy X likes this.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    Then why have the Pre 2 less than a year after the Pre +? I don't see an issue with it, it simply refutes the Apple "sheep" having new product to buy.

    It can't be explained away that Apple "sheep" had more money as that's silly.
    they could have released 50 that year, the sheep thing comes into play if the "sheep" bought all 50 to upgrade to the latest thing, thats what qualifies someone as a tech sheep.

    for a while the same will apply to the newer xbox180 and ps4, nothing is being released on them "so far" that makes them any better than their current breed counterparts and that probably wont change for quite a while. If my ps3 ever started to look dated i might consider the ps4 but i dont see (personally imho) why anyone would upgrade immediatly given that its games will be on par with the latest ps3 offerings, same applies to the xbox's.

    also applies to <insert any other popular tekkie gear here> its not just phones/tablets.
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  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    Indeed. Look at the Samsung Galaxy S3/4 for example with slightly different h/w for each carrier. Or the Lumia 920 vs 928.
    would their "mini models" count as different.
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  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Problem I have with iOS (and Android) is the interface. I think that iOS' interface sucks and Android's is not much better.
    my bigger problem is that if i do find a 1/2 decent app, even their paid for variants are still stuffed full of permissions that are leeching all my details/contacts details and forwarding them elsewhere, on the android side at least you see it ([i]tons dont even look at it or understand it ofc) on apples side ofc you dont even get that luxury, you get all the crap with the good, ignorance surely is bliss (esp when the only app that told you what permissions other apps on apples store used got removed by apple)

    the app, apple removed btw is here : ** Clueful * - * Privacy Monitoring App for iPhone & Android just pick the OS and type in the app name and see what permissions even the apple apps want. (works for android apps now i see, but dont see the point given that you can tell on googles own site anyways, also its worth checking a lot of EA games like the simpsons tapped out and more as often they require some pretty not so funny permissions)
    Last edited by geekpeter; 07/12/2013 at 06:08 AM.
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    Yeah, 1st gen Pre and its three revisions (all on the same chassis), the first of which was an exclusive on a small CDMA carrier and a piece of junk. Palm wanted to move beyond that to have any hope of survival. But by your logic, survival and paying back the shareholders are just "excuses"

    Giving the Pre- a "facelift" to convince a different carrier to sell it is a pretty standard practice. This isn't a communist country and carriers reserve the right to pick winners and losers, to sell one product, to stock but "unsell" another and completely reject a third. The Sprint Pre- and Verizon Pre+ were two completely separate markets, but pretty much the same device, the latter with less build quality issues.

    If Palm were on AT&T the whole time and selling each new version to repeat customers, this would be a 1:1 comparison, but it's not
    How do you know that the iPhone just sells to repeat customers?

    Didn't Apple move to additional carriers? You are saying it's OK when Palm does it (updates) yet bad when Apple does it. That's my only issue here.
  20. #60  
    My wife has an iPhone4S, she had Android (Gingerbread, Motorola Droid), she hated android...

    She did not like my phone, she is not techie and wanted something that works, without learning the OS...

    She loves here iPhone4S, not because it is apple, but because it just works for her, to her it is like a toaster, you put bread in you set the dial lite, brown, dark and her bread is toasted to her likings...

    The iOS experience is just that it is transparent to her needs, she does not want to muck with patches, she does not want multi-tasking, she wants to use her phone, perform an action, and then put it away...

    She does use apps, but one at a time, and she prefers that...

    The apple experience works for so many because it puts one in control of their actions...

    There are others who wish to modify the source (webOS and Android) and create a OS that suits them, but some just like the plain toaster...

    iOS7 to her is scary it is trying to change her toaster to a counter top oven, yes it can toast, but it can cook meats, pizza's and turkeys... She is a vegetarian why does she want to cook a turkey...

    Apple is going to change what some people like as a transparent OS, to a Mutli-tasking, swiping up for settings, down for notifications, some people are going to hate iOS7... can we stop the OTA updates they will ask...

    webOS works for so much of us because we want to modify our Phone to our design and make it do things the original source code did not do, but some just want a toaster, iPhone works well for that...
    Remy X likes this.
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