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The WebOS think tank.
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Old 02/14/2013, 04:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I guess my question to you is, what do you think is the best way to save our platform?

Give your opinion and ideas here? Do you think buying and supporting the old hardware is the best way to support it?

What do you think the site should do differently?

Finally, what is the best thing you can do personally, to support the WebOS community?
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Old 02/14/2013, 04:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think the users We can't do anymore, We'd do a lot for Webos than Hp, Palm, Gram or any company. Is time to Webos (Hp) do something for the users, launch Android version with LunaCe launcher on a very impressed phone, and finally 'the users' can be enjoy a good product with or beloved system. It's time that Hp do something for We.
P.S. sorry for my bad english
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Old 02/14/2013, 05:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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ok...yes
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Old 02/14/2013, 05:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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its ok dont fret
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Old 02/14/2013, 06:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Joint the HTC & Gram, creating two kind of smartphones: one cheap & one top.

The HTC is in bad situation... very, very bad, but know make smartphones with a impressive quality in hardware (except photos) and his first problem is that the devices are very, very, very expensive to a brand with low space in market. The second problem is the Android´s trap told by Nokia: using Android was good in begin but; now, is suffering because there is no diference in market. Like Nokia, started with Windows Phone, doomed since the begin.

The webOS is an excellent SO, wonderfull interface that can be very beautifull & fantastic in some SuperLCD screen. Just need hardware and spread around the world. No more, no less.

If you know the HTC One X, try to imagine with webOS...

The question is: "-Two failures cannot make a sucess (Nokia & M$); so, two weaks can make one strong?"

I don´t know... but... why not?


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Old 02/14/2013, 06:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm not sure anything can be done. Thousands of ideas have been thrown out here on this board over the years and the situation is getting worse. I agree with an earlier post that the ball is in HP's court.

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Old 02/14/2013, 08:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The HP is lost.


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Old 02/14/2013, 09:11 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I would do backflips for HTC phones rolling with webOS. Heck they even own the Beats brand now (not that it really matters more than a hill of beans).

HTC is getting creamed by Samsung in the Android space. Anyone who knows about the Android culture will buy the phones most likely to get updates or whatever comes with the latest version of Android. That ain't HTC phones right now so they aren't going to be selling as well as the Samsungs that are selling with Jelly Beans.

webOS would be a refreshing option for the mid level phones and would be competitive on a high end phone. There's so much they could do with it and with the hardware getting more standardized going the way it is I don't imagine there's that many chipsets to build for anymore. Heck, nearly every Android phone is the same underneath anymore, just minor differences in screen size, camera and the software underneath. Gram needs to step up and get the driver support and convince one of these companies to go for the "open webOS Pro" or whatever they brand it on their devices....
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Old 02/14/2013, 09:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If HP had gone with webOS we would all be cheering and the tech press would all be asking if HP were mad to try again with a failed OS.

The reality in my opinion is that of all the failures in the webOS story, the one thing that didn't fail WAS the OS!

The failures were (skip this if you've seen it before - oh, of course you have!) Hardware, Finances, Marketing, Management.

If HP had gone with one of the other new or minority OS's, it would either create a flurry of interest or another 'are they mad?' response - and it would also be game over for webOS.

Had they chosen windows, again, game over.

Android is an open source, Linux based system. (open)webOS is an open source, Linux based system. This is why porting to Nexus devices is easiest. If HP can produce a 'nexus-like' phone, it should be possible to boot webOS onto it - in fact, HP should actively ensure it is possible.

By choosing Android as an option, HP are choosing the easiest route to market with the biggest OS player, but it also doesn't necessarily prevent other options - even on the same handset. Dual boot if there's enough memory or a basic OS downloader in firmware or a program like webOS doctor that will load the OS of your choice via the USB cable.

The best hope for HP is to create a solid piece of hardware - the Pre3 is not a bad example. They could still end up as an also-ran in a crowded and competitive market, but an OS choice would be one differentiating factor. Some buyers will spend the first week or so trying the options. Most will choose Android, some might choose webOS and might even like it enough to ask for new apps or even develop them... webOS might start to increase it's foot print. Other manufacturers might try to offer an OS choice. webOS might actually become popular because it would be easy to switch if it doesn't work out for you.

It's hard to predict what HP will come up with as a compelling offer to the mobile market, but openess & choice on the device should not be too difficult. If they make their own 'Nexus', then putting webOS on it should be trivial.
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Old 02/14/2013, 09:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Here's a question, what do you mean by "save the platform"? what does anyone mean when they say that? Do you want to have more apps for it? Then be a programmer and code some apps and put them up in preware or the app catalog. Maybe if enough users bought enough apps you may be able draw some developers back. HP tried to do that by making enyo which allows code to be easily ported between WebOS and other platforms. and they also did basically open source WebOS 3 with the community edition. In a sense it is saved. The Preware people have what they need to keep it going for the near future. And the users still have a platform that gets them where they need to go.

Do you mean something more than that when you say save WebOS? Do you mean make sure it lives on a decade into the future maybe more? I think that is impossible yet unstoppable. Who uses 10 year old mobile technology? Does anyone really know someone who still carries a Treo around every day? Ten years from now even Android and IOS will be different to the point of being unrecognizable. What makes you think that will WebOS would have been the same?

WebOS will live on as much as anything else because technology has been going back and forth between different companies forever. Palm did steal a lot of Apples idea's when they made the Pre. They even designed the Pre to sync with iTunes which was something that Apple clearly did not want. Why did Apple not sue them when they have no problem sicking the lawyers on Samsung or HTC? Because Apple stole ideas from Palm (so palm os lives on), so it's all a big cycle. What ever Mobile OS(es) are around in ten year will probably have a lot of WebOS ideas in them.

Any OS (mobile or not) is just a platform for apps anyway. That why iOS is so successful despite any short comings. Ten years from now, you will have re-bought whatever apps you have a couple times over regardless what ever platform you happen to be on (who uses 10 year old apps), so relax and enjoy the next few years with what you have and then move on.
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Old 02/14/2013, 09:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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While what you say is true, those who like webOS wish to continue using it. For this to happen there needs to be a virtuous circle of new hardware enabling a user base large enough for developers to make money developing apps (or the OS itself), which in turn leads to user interest and purchases of new hardware etc...

Without this, the system doesn't keep up with developments in services (and APIs) and after a while, stuff doesn't get updated, or fixed and breaks, leaving the user with a choice to do without or go elsewhere. Sooner or later other systems will adopt parts of webOS, but at the moment nothing is like it and if webOS is your choice, it would be better if that system continued...
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Old 02/14/2013, 11:20 AM   #12 (permalink)
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imho us "users" cant do squat, its all down to the clever devs/porting experts to make waves for the rest of us to take advantage of.

if it ever came to fruition id probably use whatever tablet they port too as a backup when i can no longer aquire touchpads off ebay if/when mine break but phones, i like the pre3 form and likely wont bother with the phone side of open webOS.

its a weird situation where the touchpad can do everything i want, unfortunatly for the likes of netflix/tvcatchup that requires cm10 but teh hardware handles anything even new stuff, so "updating" to new devices seems pointless as the newer hardware doesnt actully give us anything useful except maybe a bigger screenres which is largly unnoticed.

It's something ive noticed when using an ipad3/touchpads/7&8" android tablets, they can all do the same thing, run the same apps but why do we NEED say an ipad3/4 over some cheapo £65 chineese android tablet or your trusty touchpad, esp if they all have the very basics of wifi/bluetooth, the biggest difference is their OS and how i use them, the apps take a back seat.

i have 3 touchpads now so i have no fear when 1 breaks, i mean honestly and seriously what cant the touchpad do that others can? (if you factor in being able to use webOS, cm9/10 and ubuntu all in 1) the touchpad can triple boot and has touchstone, still has decent cpu/gpu performance. (not that much in the way of apps needs it)
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Old 02/14/2013, 08:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I agree the webos user doesn't have much influence over the future of webos. If open webos is adopted by some company(or companies) then it lives on. It may be in a foreign market like china rather than us, europe at first. HP spun off webos in part because it didn't have the resources to make it succeed but it didn't want to shut down completely. (> 1 billion dollars for nothing?) When HP was shopping Palm around, no one wanted it and the money it would take to succeed or not. But there were probably some interested unnamed parties who would use webOS if it was open and low cost/free. That's why HP opensourced it. But if no one takes it (because android is more appealing or plays well with partners) then HP will kill it or cut off funding. Tablets are rapidly becoming commodities with amazon, low cost no name brands. Manufacturers are able to make ok devices at low cost but they don't have the skill to develop an OS which is why android is so compelling. Now that webOos is open sourced it is at least a consideration for new devices if it is distinct enough from Android and HP makes it easy to put into a device. That's probably where Gram comes in. HP probably can sustain this level of support for open webos for a few years but if no one is interested in buying HP servers/services that come with open webos then the plug gets pulled for good. Hp is still trying to monetize webos even if it is huge long shot.
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Old 02/14/2013, 08:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You ("the users") can't save the platform. I've been in communities for failing hardware I've used before where users thought up amazing plans to buy companies, hardware, get manufacturers on board, attract new developers, etc. Nothing has ever panned out. Ever. One notable one that still chugs on today, 20 years later as of this year, is the Atari Jaguar community. Some of its remaining users still swear it's the best system out there, when in reality it's just the best for them.

So you might see where I'm coming from when I get a little weirded out by some of the things I read in threads around here. It's basically a script that plays out every time the life of a product ends and its users keep hanging on by whatever morsel of optimism surfaces. It actually becomes a pretty sad scene.

That "Savior Train" for reviving webOS into a top-tier commercial OS is gone. Accept it. Open webOS is this generation's mobile version of BeOS. Like a script, playing out again.

The question is, "What can you do to support webOS?" instead. Keep using the devices. Keep supporting webOS Ports. Keep producing homebrew apps, and keep your community going. Most importantly, keep having fun with webOS. It's now your sandbox and you actually have the power to shape it for your community rather than live up to some misguided expectation that it should be on store shelves. Sure, you're not going to get the latest game or even strong app support and the latest features, but that doesn't mean it isn't doing what you need or want.

What not to do? Don't disparage other platforms and their users. Don't refuse to face the reality of the situation. Don't pin your hopes on things turning around. Don't keep thinking that webOS is somehow the best for everyone when technologically most other platforms have eclipsed it--it's simply the best platform for you.

That's how you play things from here.
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Old 02/14/2013, 11:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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There is absolutely and utterly NOTHING we, the users can do. The market, the powers that be, those in control have spoken, all be it in vague terms. HP wants nothing to do with webOS, there is no suggestion that any other company does either. True there were mistakes along the way but none that hp couldn't have battled and won with their resources.

Instead, the only ones suffering, are the only ones that care we are suffering... The webOS user community. We are left holding onto an idea that was so great in the mobile space... Still is, an idea that hasn't been reproduced by any mobile platform... Really, did any version of android, iOS, Windows Phone or blackberry OS excite anyone other than their respective *******? No... WebOS had people raving across the board.

That is why it's so hard to let go. It's underlying philosophy is so great as an OS, it had/has so much potential, but HP literally let it all just crumble into pieces when they had the ability to fully realize the potential of the OS.

They've open sourced it, left it to us in the community to pick up its shredded pieces and said here you go guys, have fun. Good luck. **! To all of us.

This OS will live on in some way in the future, just not the way we here at precentral/webOSNation ever wanted.

Cry me a river...

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX, but webOS is always in me...
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Old 02/15/2013, 06:54 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think the ball is in the court of both Gram and Phoenix International Communications, and they are our best hope.

I believe they are working hard behind the scenes to make a success of Open WebOS.

In my opinion perhaps their best chance of persuading a manufacturer to make smartphones and tablets for Open webOS, is where these devices dual boot with say Android and Open webOS - basically a piggy-back approach.

This way consumers will naturally be interested in the devices because it has Android but then they will be introduced to the amazing user interface of webOS and then hopefully prefer it.

I cannot see any other way for WebOS to get a "foot in the door" in the smartphone and tablet market, dominated by Android and iPhone.

I am guessing this may happen early 2014 by which time my 2 year Pre 3 and Touchpad contract comes for renewal.

I have happily used a phone for more than 2 or 3 years, without replacing, so am more than happy to be patient and wait until 2014.

Why renew a smartphone every year when the improvements are only marginal and the expense is significant.

Patience is a virtue.
No one company can dominate for ever. Look at IBM, Microsoft, Kodak etc etc.

The same will eventually happen to Apple, Google, even Samsung one day. I'm sure China will have some amazing manufacturers in 5 or 10 years time.
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Old 02/15/2013, 07:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It all been well said.

Remember when Palm OS and Windows Mobile version [whatever] were fighting for dominance in the (then) PDA space? Who would have thunk that we'd be seeing companies associated with fruit and robots dominating the mobile electronics market.

One of these days, even those guys will be replaced, but it will not be by a resurgent webOS. Most likely by some player we may not even be aware of now. Perhaps from Asia, or eastern Europe or even South Africa. But by then, we will not want go back to a many year old OS, however great its potential was in it's day.

(As an aside, I suspect that if webOS brought the same rock-solid reliability and sensible functionality of the old PalmOS software and hardware along with new features of webOS, this would have had a different ending.)

So if you like the features and it does what you need, enjoy the ride. If you need to do something your Pre cannot do, move on - hopefully without taking a dump on all of the good people in the forums here as you leave. If you are prone to techno-envy, no use in staying here waiting for a breakthrough with a 3.5 year old OS and no prospects of new hardware.

I have a number of different platform phones and the webOS phone is still the most 'fun' to use on a daily basis. But I know that at some point - when I can't find batteries, screen protectors, apps, software updates, etc. I will be forced to move on. By then, every OS that is still in play will be better.
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Old 02/15/2013, 08:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think this topic has been discussed a dozen times since I came here last October, but I might as well get my two cents in...

Without carrier subsidies, webOS devices (even if widely available) will only attract a limited audience. WebOS has already been a hobbyist hacker OS for a while, even before HP released its source code, so being maintained and consumed by hobbyists it will likely stay in that narrow space until we, the hobbyists, release a word class product (easier said than done) and Android app support becomes a reality. With that done, we can only hope for Chinese hardware.

So there isn't anyone to swoop in and lift us out of this mess, but anything good we build can add more weight to Gram's effort... Even if things are bleak we can still keep building and working out bugs, and lowering the barriers for its adoption by other hobbyists...
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Old 02/15/2013, 09:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
I think this topic has been discussed a dozen times since I came here last October, but I might as well get my two cents in...

Without carrier subsidies, webOS devices (even if widely available) will only attract a limited audience. WebOS has already been a hobbyist hacker OS for a while, even before HP released its source code, so being maintained and consumed by hobbyists it will likely stay in that narrow space until we, the hobbyists, release a word class product (easier said than done) and Android app support becomes a reality. With that done, we can only hope for Chinese hardware.

So there isn't anyone to swoop in and lift us out of this mess, but anything good we build can add more weight to Gram's effort... Even if things are bleak we can still keep building and working out bugs, and lowering the barriers for its adoption by other hobbyists...
even if it (open webOS) primarily ends up as a tablet OS the lack of carrier support is just fine, it can get solved/sidetracked eventually on the phone side, at least the OS doesnt depend solely on phones.
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