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OS market too full for webOS?
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Old 01/10/2013, 01:37 PM   #81 (permalink)
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It is beyond amazing that some believe the success of the iPad is due to advertising.
He's not talking about advertising alone, but the the whole system. Apple knew how to launch a product, and as a result became a market leader rather than "also-ran".

HP has practically invented the tablet PC, but Apple has made that form factor work by turning its tablet offering into an oversized phone (ARM cpu) instead of a keyboard-less laptop (x86). The choice of ARM architecture meant that the iPad was able to make use of iPhone apps right away, with their touchscreen-centric UI and also avoid the extra heat and fan noise inherent to x86-based machines.

HP came back to see that all of the hard work has been done for them, no real need to innovate from scratch. They took an off-the-shelf CPU (Apple bought a company that then designed their proprietary A4 chip for the iPad), already had webOS as the result of the Palm purchase and like i said, the road has been paved for them. They would have had much more of an excuse for failing if they had no example to follow. But they screwed up anyway.. (bad launch strategy + Apothecker)
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Old 01/10/2013, 02:41 PM   #82 (permalink)
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The iPad was released less than a year after the Pre and more than a year before the Touchpad. The iPad 2 beat the Touchpad to market. The Touchpad was dated upon release.
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Old 01/10/2013, 02:52 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The iPad was released less than a year after the Pre and more than a year before the Touchpad. The iPad 2 beat the Touchpad to market. The Touchpad was dated upon release.
AFAIK, even the original iPad had a better CPU. And better build quality.

However, HP had a chance to price the TP lower than the iPad 2, as the "budget product" offering, the way Amazon has later done and continue selling with a barely-there profit margin. It would have sold well anyway...

Instead they chose to just dump everything and liquidate the remaining stock at $100, below manufacturing cost... while even at $250, they would have sold like hotcakes. Hare-brained CEO and blundering marketing dept... nice combination
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Old 01/10/2013, 03:20 PM   #84 (permalink)
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The iPad was released less than a year after the Pre and more than a year before the Touchpad. The iPad 2 beat the Touchpad to market. The Touchpad was dated upon release.
and yet its still a good device even now, be it webOS or cm10 the touchpad handles every "normal" app quite well, even my cheapo <85 android tablets work perfectly fine on everything, its only high end 3d shooters/etc that struggle with them but thats 1 minor niche of the whole tablets usage.

using the ipad3, 2x touchpads, 2x android tablets its only those insane 3d games that make any difference, if your using normal apps then there is very little difference in all of them, the bigger difference is how open they are for me to install/use what i want.

so for me the apple products fail hard even tho they have the best hardware, theres just no way to use that awesome hardware for stuff that interests me (emulators/ubuntu etc), androids nto bad being a good 1/2 medium but its apps are too full of junk adverts or they just dont work right, leaving me with my reliable touchpad thats doing everything i want.

to each their own but after all these years "shiney" looking stuff dont interest me beyond maybe 1 days worth of "oooooh" then they bore me when the shine and sparkle vanish very fast and instead they start to infuriate me, its why my ipad3 is now the most expensive and smallest television ive ever bought.

is the touchpad "old" in current terms, hell yes, does that make it a bad device, imho.... no, its why ive bought 4 of them now, 2 for me and 2 for family (tho i did slap cm10 on as their both android phone users).
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Old 01/11/2013, 12:45 AM   #85 (permalink)
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It is beyond amazing that some believe the success of the iPad is due to advertising.
The iPad rode the wake of the iPhone. After the iPhone hype, Apple could have sold a hammer and a nail as new tech...
Best advertising is people showing off their new Apple product.

And advertisement is just a part of marketing...
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Old 01/11/2013, 12:52 AM   #86 (permalink)
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The iPad rode the wake of the iPhone. After the iPhone hype, Apple could have sold a hammer and a nail as new tech...
Best advertising is people showing off their new Apple product.

And advertisement is just a part of marketing...
They could but they didn't. They created fantastic device and created whole new market. Apple set standard so high that even today others can't follow. Original Ipad is still one of best tablets with great performance.
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Old 01/11/2013, 01:05 AM   #87 (permalink)
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The iPad is and was a good product.
Having a good product is as much a part of marketing, as getting the pricing right, having the right distribution channels and getting the customer eager to buy the product.

The Touchpad as a hardware wasn't so bad as well (CM10 still runs fine on it). But neither the pricing nor the advertisement were proper.

All I tried to say in my posting is, that you are not handed a market share for free. You have to earn it. You have to MAKE place in the market for you.
Apple did that, when Palm, Microsoft and RIM were having a hold of the market.
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Old 01/11/2013, 01:52 AM   #88 (permalink)
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WebOS phones were dying in the marketplace and running out of users when the Touchpad was released. The Touchpad was not building or locking into a successful product.

The launch advertising was strong.
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Old 01/11/2013, 06:35 AM   #89 (permalink)
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...

The launch advertising was strong.
Maybe in the US. In Europe not so. At least not in the Germany and Austria where I watch TV and/or magazines and newspapers. And Germany was a target market for the Pre+ and Pre3. Austria, Switzerland and other countries weren't even supplied, even though the mobilephone-per-person ratio is quite high in those countries.

HP simply had no touch for the market.
Palm didn't either. At the start of the first decade of 2000 they were resting on their laurels and in the following years they were therefore wiped off the charts in many countries outside America (even by WinMobile in those days).
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Old 01/13/2013, 01:34 AM   #90 (permalink)
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The foothold that both iOS and android have in my mind is too great. Wp8 could bring the competition simply from windows 8 eventually being in ,most homes
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Old 01/13/2013, 02:01 AM   #91 (permalink)
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The foothold that both iOS and android have in my mind is too great. Wp8 could bring the competition simply from windows 8 eventually being in ,most homes
Well... Once people see Windows 8 for the turd it is, they usually downgrade to 7... so i'm not so sure about "most homes". When M$ takes away functionality and changes what used to "just work", that's not innovation...

So i wouldn't give Microsoft too much credit yet. Yes, right now they might be ahead of Blackberry, but they have shown that they can't grow and innovate in the phone arena without leaving a pile of broken and abandoned products (with no aftermarket support either). Customers are still wary, and Android has way more credibility at this point. Unix/Linux-based OSs have more homebrew support... so we'll see
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Old 01/13/2013, 09:10 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Well... Once people see Windows 8 for the turd it is, they usually downgrade to 7... so i'm not so sure about "most homes". When M$ takes away functionality and changes what used to "just work", that's not innovation...

So i wouldn't give Microsoft too much credit yet. Yes, right now they might be ahead of Blackberry, but they have shown that they can't grow and innovate in the phone arena without leaving a pile of broken and abandoned products (with no aftermarket support either). Customers are still wary, and Android has way more credibility at this point. Unix/Linux-based OSs have more homebrew support... so we'll see
Yea I agree windows 8 is painful. My boss thought he was doing a good thing and purchased a new pc and took the windows 8 path...hasn't been good to say the least
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Old 01/14/2013, 09:27 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I don't want to go off topic, but... well everybody else has a bit!

As usual, we all discuss what went wrong and suggest possibilities to rectify the situation, but few of us have any real power.

Firstly, the simple question of the OP has been answered many times over on this thread: The market is never too full for a quality product.

That doesn't mean webOS is going to succeed.

Derek Kessler's recent CES video seems to say it all - nothing appears to be happening. Even the rumours from gram seem... uninspiring. I imagine a bunch of people are tinkering somewhere, but to what end? I'm not saying a plan will result in success, but as they say, failure to plan...

I think there must be a plan somewhere - wouldn't it be great if the outline of it appeared in a gram press release?

It is not impossible to target a niche with a realistic and small scale business plan and end up making some profit. From that foot hold, growth is possible for a quality product, but realistically, a large amount of capital will be needed even for that. Who is going to do it? There is also the Linux type path where enthusiasts tinker for years until the project gets picked up by those who can monetise it, but is a mobile OS like a desktop/server OS? I think mobile specs are more varied than the PC spec. Perhaps when the mobile is genuinely a portable computer with peripherals for different contexts (this is I think is the Ubuntu plan) i.e it's your mobile/desktop/media centre core device. In this instance, the OS would have to adapt the UI to the context. Maybe this will never happen because dedicated, small, networked boxes are the answer or a home server with largely dumb terminals.

Anyhow, there needs to be a plan in order for webOS to succeed. It seems to me the list of possible planners looks like this:
1. HP/Palm
2. Gram (assuming they will be seperate)
3. WebOSInternals / Ports
4. Phoenix devices
5. Other independent webOS developers

From the comments above, it seems that HP are doing nothing - a shame as they are probably the only ones with any money!
Gram is either waiting on the HB community to get OWOS into shape (and possibly helping the effort) with a view to being to webOS what Redhat was/is to Linux - professional release with support.... or they're doing not much.
webOS_Internals is maintaining and patching the legacy code, ports is slowly putting OWOS onto a Galaxy Nexus.
Phoenix is... was it webOS as android app?
Other developers I mentioned as a possibility and I know there are other projects happening.

However, as far as I can tell (and I guess all the webOS news that is fit to print appears on this site eventually), there is no realistic plan to get webOS out there on a webOS phone. If any of the players listed have such a plan, here is no hint of it and not much indication that they are even talking to each other.

Blame, as ever, will fall at the door of HP, but if it is the case that they have kindly open-sourced webOS & washed their hands of it, the eye moves to Gram who have some funding. The rest are volunteers and it's unfair to ask or expect anything of them.

Gram may not have 'build a phone' money, but they have a paid staff and one product: OpenwebOS. OpenwebOS had a roadmap. Maybe a new one is due. It might omit commercially sensitive information, but would be a way to energise the community.

A promise of a commercial product for phone or tablet (both?), a plan for a working port, a reference hardware spec, a hope of manufacture (with a partner or subcontractor...?) That's a rough plan. Timings may be vague, but those in the community who can, might then ask, "where can I help?". Users might make buying decisions based on webOS compatability.

Well, it's just my opinion. I think someone (and gram is the obvious candidate) should be the 'Torvalds' of webOS and give the world the idea that it isn't dead yet.
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Old 01/15/2013, 01:55 AM   #94 (permalink)
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...

I think there must be a plan somewhere - ...
One would have thought. After all, HP DID invest alot of money, first into buying the thing, then into turning it to OpenSource and now for creating a company.

But I don't see anything that remotely makes me believe, that there is some plan, some governance model, some faint strategy or whatever.
Ok, I am no HP or Gram insider, so if I don't see it, it doesn't mean that there is none.

BUT (and this is the big, showstopping "but")

There are all the probable companies that might be even faintly interested into putting WebOS on their devices ... I am fairly sure, they see as little as I do. And if they don't see any plan, any strategy and therefore any future to a product, what would be their motivation to put it on their hardware?
... not to speak of the developers we would direly need to water the desert, we call an AppCatalog ...

@HP and Gram: you might not have noticed yet: future needs to be shaped. If it is not, it just happens without you...
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Old 01/16/2013, 07:10 PM   #95 (permalink)
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http://mashable.com/2013/01/15/new-o...ms-smartphone/

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Old 01/16/2013, 07:22 PM   #96 (permalink)
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http://mashable.com/2013/01/15/new-o...ms-smartphone/

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**quoted to make the link work**
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Old 01/16/2013, 07:30 PM   #97 (permalink)
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**quoted to make the link work**
It didn't work? Seems to work fine from Tapatalk HD on CM10 when I click the link. This is my first time posting from this app so I'm a little concerned.

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Old 01/16/2013, 07:38 PM   #98 (permalink)
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It didn't work? Seems to work fine from Tapatalk HD on CM10 when I click the link. This is my first time posting from this app so I'm a little concerned.

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Many of the forum apps do something that makes the vBulletin forum back end spit out unconverted BBcode... usually happens when the server is busy
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Old 01/16/2013, 07:45 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Many of the forum apps do something that makes the vBulletin forum back end spit out unconverted BBcode... usually happens when the server is busy
Ugh! I hope this doesn't happen often. I like Tapatalk HD. Not as much as Communities, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. I plan on posting quite a few responses from this app. Can't have someone fixing my links every time.

Thanks!

I read the article this afternoon and felt that it would enhance this conversation.

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Old 01/17/2013, 12:37 AM   #100 (permalink)
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http://mashable.com/2013/01/15/new-o...ms-smartphone/

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They mentioned webOS in passing in one sentence then went pretty in-depth with all the newcomers instead. That's not exactly favorable; it's lip service that cements it in readers' heads that it's an OS in a coma while a bunch of new experiences are ready to come to market..."and here's how!"
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