webOS Online Services Root Certificate Expiry

[GMMan]

I was looking at the root certificate for webOS online services, and noticed it expires at ‎July-‎23-‎13 4:30:48 PM. So if HP does not release an updated certificate at that time, and if webOS honors certificate expiries, that means anything that relies on webOS cloud services and a SSL connection will stop working. What does that mean for anyone who might still be using webOS at that time?

[VasTheGreek]

Very interesting point....

[davidtm]

Interestingly, my Palm profile "tokenExpireTime" in Impostah is 9/30/2021. I guess if the certificate expires and we don't have access, this is irrelevant?

[bluenote]

ATT sold those veers with a 2 year contract so I guess technically the phone would not be guaranteed after July 2013.
But isnt Gram using cloud services? If so, what would be the point of cutting off the old webOS users, especially as the shelf life of a phone is probably no more than a year or so after the 2 year contract mark?

More importantly, can someone just reach out to HP/Gram and ask their intentions instead of us spilling endless ink over this issue? I thought open webOS meant that things would be more...Open.

[GMMan]

The problem with the certificate is they're self signed. The root certificates exist only as a part of a webOS distribution, and does not use standard root certificates from the likes of Verisign and others who provide root certificates. That means they can't just stick a new certificate on their server, but have to create new Doctor builds and OTA updates for every single variation of webOS device. The expiration date is actually pretty standard: 5 years for the certificate, starting in 2009 when webOS was first shipped. There's no fault on Palm/HP's part here. The problem is now that all webOS devices are discontinued, there's a diminishing likeliness of them going the trouble and updating the root certificate in a timely manner, or if at all. Best case is for them to recognize that right now and be prepared to update all devices with a new root certificate, probable case being we're denied cloud services for a couple of months until they can figure out how to do OTA while devices refuse connection with their servers (AFAIK OTA is done over SSL, though I don't know whether they're using the self-signed root certificate or a well known one). Worst case is they'll forget about us entirely and we'll have to replace all their cloud services with our own.

[bluenote]

Well can someone reach out to Enda McGrath and ask?

[endamcgrath]

Got it, will report back when I know more.

thanks

[bluenote]

Originally Posted by endamcgrath

Got it, will report back when I know more.

thanks

Thanks. Appreciate your responsiveness to this issue.

[GMMan]

I sent an email to one of my Palm contacts as well.

[rwhitby]

Originally Posted by GMMan

The problem with the certificate is they're self signed. The root certificates exist only as a part of a webOS distribution, and does not use standard root certificates from the likes of Verisign and others who provide root certificates. That means they can't just stick a new certificate on their server, but have to create new Doctor builds and OTA updates for every single variation of webOS device. The expiration date is actually pretty standard: 5 years for the certificate, starting in 2009 when webOS was first shipped. There's no fault on Palm/HP's part here. The problem is now that all webOS devices are discontinued, there's a diminishing likeliness of them going the trouble and updating the root certificate in a timely manner, or if at all. Best case is for them to recognize that right now and be prepared to update all devices with a new root certificate, probable case being we're denied cloud services for a couple of months until they can figure out how to do OTA while devices refuse connection with their servers (AFAIK OTA is done over SSL, though I don't know whether they're using the self-signed root certificate or a well known one). Worst case is they'll forget about us entirely and we'll have to replace all their cloud services with our own.

If necessary, we can distribute a self-signed webOS cloud services root certificate update via Preware.

In fact, when you install Preware you also install the WebOS Internals root certificate. Our root certificate expires in Dec 2019 - we figured webOS would be around for twice as long as Palm did ...

-- Rod

[njitipairote]

So I will get 2.2.5 on my Pre 3 after all?

[Gwidion]

Originally Posted by njitipairote

So I will get 2.2.5 on my Pre 3 after all?

Only for a Certifikat ? Don't think so!

[RumoredNow]

Originally Posted by rwhitby

...In fact, when you install Preware you also install the WebOS Internals root certificate. Our root certificate expires in Dec 2019...

*...starts calculating battery horde needed to carry devices into 2019...*

[ananimus]

Wanted to bring attention to GMMan's point: Webos Update 2.2.4 2211

Sidenote: Keep in mind webOS cloud services certificates are due to expire next month; it's reported that HP is doing something about it, so I'd expect an update within the next month, lest pandemonium breaks out with people unable to access App Catalog and updates backups.

Perhaps those more knowledgeable or in the loop have some insight on what to expect with this? Bad enough all the APIs are breaking out from under our feet. Hate to see webOS official bits breaking too.

[RumoredNow]

Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick...

[gizmo21]

Be sure to make backups before update comes and check that sync to your synergy services work correctly. Wouldn't be the first time webOS updates fail with dataloss on some devices.

I would prefer a simple certificate downloadlink instead of a "full" webOS OTA update for a longtime discontinued product without live support.

[gizmo21]

any new info on this?


I would prefer a simple certificate downloadlink or Preware package instead of a "full" webOS OTA update for a longtime discontinued product without live support. OTA updates could render a few devices to doctor-needed state combined with dataloss when backup failed.

[gizmo21]

btw Derek: this could be worth a frontpage article to gain some buzz in the community.

And perhaps app purchases should be done soon, if HP forgets us or blews it again no more official app-catalog will be there

[ananimus]

Wow. Didn't realize GMMan was on it this far back!

Indeed. An article to draw some attention might be helpful, though it sounds like there's reason to believe a bump will happen. Maybe they can even include the 2.2.5 bump that Steffes found and worked on recently?

Originally Posted by GMMan

probable case being we're denied cloud services for a couple of months until they can figure out how to do OTA while devices refuse connection with their servers (AFAIK OTA is done over SSL, though I don't know whether they're using the self-signed root certificate or a well known one)

The eventuality of this paradox would make for many sad pandas.

[rwhitby]

Originally Posted by ananimus

Wow. Didn't realize GMMan was on it this far back!

Indeed. An article to draw some attention might be helpful, though it sounds like there's reason to believe a bump will happen. Maybe they can even include the 2.2.5 bump that Steffes found and worked on recently?

There is absolutely no reason to believe a bump will happen.

-- Rod