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  1. #21  
    So Rod do you believe we have no more appcatalog/backup/profile login for 2.x in august?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo21 View Post
    So Rod do you believe we have no more appcatalog/backup/profile login for 2.x in august?
    If HP does not provide the devices with an updated root certificate, I expect that will be the consequence.

    You can test this by changing the time on your device, rebooting and then trying to access the app catalog or activate a palm profile. Watch /var/log/messages for the SSL failures.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  3. #23  
    So shouldn't that be enough to raise our voice?

    Today it's only exactly 2 month left to fix this.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo21 View Post
    So shouldn't that be enough to raise our voice?

    Today it's only exactly 2 month left to fix this.
    HP/LG has positively acknowledged in this thread back in November 2012 that they know about this issue and the impact it will have.

    So realistically, I see two options:

    1) HP is making enough money from the 30% cut of webOS app catalog purchases that they consider it a going concern and will do the work required (between a staff week and a staff month probably, so less than $10K) to solve it.

    2) HP are not making enough money to be concerned about it, and have no legal obligation to continue to provide service (have the carrier 2 year contracts expired yet?), so will use this as an excuse to let it die.


    For 1), they have two options:

    a) Solve it for all people, through an OTA push of a new certificate. This would be the upper end of my estimate (i.e. at least a staff month to verify it for all devices).

    b) Solve it just for the vocal minority, by providing a new certificate that can be packaged by WebOS Internals in Preware. This would be the low end of my estimate. Lemke could do this in a day.


    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  5. #25  
    re. (b) - How 'vocal' may we have to become?


    TP 32Gb 4G. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Pre3 16Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ TS2 BT Audio-Dock ~ HP iPaq. hx-2790b.
    TP 32Gb Wifi. 3.0.5 / CM10. ~ Veer (Wht.) 8Gb GSM. 2.2.4. ~ HP Omen-15-5206tx. 256Gb SSD. i7-O/C@3.39Ghz. Win10.
  6. #26  
    Some questions.

    1) What happens to devices never activated, if there is no update to solve this problem.

    Example i buy an HP Veer today and try to activated after the 23 of July.

    2) With this instruction WebOS Survival Kit - WebOS Internals
    I'm still able to use webOSDoctor and activated my device?

    3) If the solution come from preware, my device needed to be activated or if i never activated (I don't have an account) i can't do anything anymore?

    4) What happens to my device without the tokens and restored with webOS Doctor that need to be activated (With account and activation in the past)


    Thanks in advance.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by wMarck90 View Post
    Some questions.

    1) What happens to devices never activated, if there is no update to solve this problem.

    Example i buy an HP Veer today and try to activated after the 23 of July.

    2) With this instruction WebOS Survival Kit - WebOS Internals
    I'm still able to use webOSDoctor and activated my device?

    3) If the solution come from preware, my device needed to be activated or if i never activated (I don't have an account) i can't do anything anymore?

    4) What happens to my device without the tokens and restored with webOS Doctor that need to be activated (With account and activation in the past)


    Thanks in advance.
    1) You will need to bypass activation, and it will never be able to communicate with the HP servers until the certificate is fixed on your device.

    2) You can bypass activation, but not connect to HP servers.

    3) If HP supplies a certificate, Preware can install it on any device (either activated, or activation bypassed).

    4) You cannot activate with an expired certificate, regardless of the previous state of the device.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  8. #28  
    From LG's 2/25/2013 press release,
    ... "Also under the agreement:

    LG will assume stewardship of the open source projects of Open WebOS and Enyo.
    HP will retain ownership of all of Palm’s cloud computing assets, including source code, talent, infrastructure and contracts.
    HP will continue to support Palm users.(emphasis mine)"

    So it would seem reasonable to press hp a bit on this.
    Palm III, Palm T3, Palm Treo 650, Palm Pre+, hp Pre 3, Touchpad
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    2) HP are not making enough money to be concerned about it, and have no legal obligation to continue to provide service (have the carrier 2 year contracts expired yet?), so will use this as an excuse to let it die.
    I'm relatively certain the Veer FauxG was still being sold on AT&T contract after the firesale and collapse, as well as versions of the EU Pre 3 (and possibly VZW Pre 2?). I want to say it was still late 2011/early 2012 before those worked out of their systems, but according to this article it was mid-August 2011 at the earliest as that's when the 3 launched in Europe:
    HP: webOS Still Coming to PCs and Printers, Pre3 Launching - Ina Fried - News - AllThingsD
    SIM-free Pre3 now available via Palm Europe for £299.00 [UPDATE x2: Statement from HP] | webOS Nation

    So I have to believe there are still Veers and EU Pre 3's floating around out there on contract past July.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrhoades View Post
    From LG's 2/25/2013 press release,
    HP will continue to support Palm users.(emphasis mine)"

    So it would seem reasonable to press hp a bit on this.
    All this means is that it's not LG's responsibility to support current users. HP will continue to "support" them with continuous kicks to the teeth.
    Nonononoki likes this.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrhoades View Post
    From LG's 2/25/2013 press release,
    ... "Also under the agreement:

    LG will assume stewardship of the open source projects of Open WebOS and Enyo.
    HP will retain ownership of all of Palm’s cloud computing assets, including source code, talent, infrastructure and contracts.
    HP will continue to support Palm users.(emphasis mine)"

    So it would seem reasonable to press hp a bit on this.
    HP would also bring webOS 2 to the Pre+ because they were still supporting the Pre+ after the takeover and look how that turned out. Not to mention our webOS meme "in the coming months"
  12. #32  
    Rod,

    -> So, if I make a full reset in any webOS device after 23/07/2013 without a new certificate, this device cannot be activated again?

    -> Can you say if some certificate released to OWOS can be used in a webOS device?
    Thanks,


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jcerwinske View Post
    All this means is that it's not LG's responsibility to support current users. HP will continue to "support" them with continuous kicks to the teeth.
    Does 'support' mean anything in terms of the cloud services? Surely they are supplied 'as is' and the support related to warranty issues?
  14. #34  
    There are still many never opened webOS devices out there for sale, that people could potentially buy and feel ripped off if they are unable to get past the first use screen...

    HP should at least take care of this for the sake of the Veers, which, you know, shipped with their name/logo on the back. Who knows how many customers they could alienate with this, who would turn around and never buy a HP product again...

    Maybe I'm just speculating, but IMHO, this has the potential of looking bad far outside our small community of enthusiasts...
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
    Rod,

    -> So, if I make a full reset in any webOS device after 23/07/2013 without a new certificate, this device cannot be activated again?

    -> Can you say if some certificate released to OWOS can be used in a webOS device?
    Thanks,


    Best Regards...
    1) Not with an expired certificate.

    2) It is a root certificate, which is independent of OS.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrhoades View Post
    from lg's 2/25/2013 press release,
    ... "also under the agreement:

    Lg will assume stewardship of the open source projects of open webos and enyo.
    Hp will retain ownership of all of palm’s cloud computing assets, including source code, talent, infrastructure and contracts.
    hp will continue to support palm users.(emphasis mine)"

    so it would seem reasonable to press hp a bit on this.

    well I GUESS IT'S time to sue again!!!!
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy X View Post
    There are still many never opened webOS devices out there for sale, that people could potentially buy and feel ripped off if they are unable to get past the first use screen...
    This wouldn't be without precedent in the electronics industry by a long shot; you can still buy devices new in box from not long ago where this is the case after they've been left for dead; realistically, the expectation here should always be caveat emptor when buying discontinued products.

    Hell, for a good analogue, look at the MMO gaming industry. You can still buy new-in-box copies of MMOs out in the wild that were discontinued--and their servers completely decommissioned--not even a couple of months after release.

    The point: When devices (and games, for that matter) are increasingly dependent on services to function, this is what happens.

    If the buyer feels ripped off, they have nothing to blame but their own failure to do the logical due diligence. Just because there are new-in-box products out there, it doesn't create an obligation on part of the manufacturer to continue support until the very last one is sold.

    And it sure as hell isn't the basis for a lawsuit, as is mentioned in the post above mine. HP's definition of "support" could merely mean keeping the cloud services online for an arbitrarily short time during the transition and providing warranty support (assuming the latter still exists). It shouldn't be taken to mean in any way that there's no expiration date on that "support", because there is.
  18. #38  
    So even if HP get's an update out before July, how can an till august unopened / unactivated device with 2.2.4 update to this new version/certificate if installed cloud certificate fails at this point of time?
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo21 View Post
    So even if HP get's an update out before July, how can an till august unopened / unactivated device with 2.2.4 update to this new version/certificate if installed cloud certificate fails at this point of time?
    That's a very good question.... I think that will be tricky... They could MAYBE push something OTA, but I'm not really sure how that would work. I think any updates currently are only pushed when you're logged in to a profile, not without....

    I believe Rod might know what the options are since he developed a lot of the homebrew bits.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo21 View Post
    So even if HP get's an update out before July, how can an till august unopened / unactivated device with 2.2.4 update to this new version/certificate if installed cloud certificate fails at this point of time?
    Very good point. If the fix is required to be on the device, then it's a catch-22 at this point, so those devices will be useless to anyone who can't work out how to bypass activation and install Preware to fix it (as soon as HP releases a new certificate in any form, we can package it for Preware).

    And they won't even be able to buy the Preware Homebrew Documentation app from the app store for easy-to-follow instructions on how to install Preware!

    [Actually, since I've been thinking about this for a couple of days, there is a small possibility that there could be a server-side fix for this problem ... but I'd have to know the details of HP's server-side implementation to be sure.]

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
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