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  • 1 Post By ShiftyAxel
  1.    #1  
    Discussions on this topic have been made but are mostly scattered around this forum, so if I may...let me.

    When I first got my Pre+ (January 2010) it probably had a 2 or 3 minute boot time. I was assured that this would improve as new updates to the OS came out. By the time I stopped using my Pre+, my boot time was about 6:20. Obviously, I added lots of apps, overclocked, patches, email accounts, etc. But I don't think I ever heard anyone having a longer boot time than me...until now...it's me again, on my Pre2. My boot time when I first got my Pre2 in July was about 4 minutes and change. Now it is up to about 7 minutes. The longest I've seen is 7:24.

    I haven't seen another OS that takes more than 2 minutes to boot up. When I've asked people about it, they typically have less than 1 minute boot time.

    This is getting unbearable. I travel often, and I turn off my phone when they tell me to on the airplane (please, don't discuss whether we should or shouldn't, that is a different discussion, and maybe you can find it by searching this forum). I've noticed that some people have only put their phone in airplane mode, so their 'boot time' is not actual, but I've seen people who HAVE completely shut down their device and I see the boot time running around 30 seconds.

    The comment section of the recent story about the LG TV running open webOS touched on this issue. Since it takes so long to boot up, people won't want to have to wait on their TV. Why does it take so long? Can't anyone figure this out? Can't we ever expect a quick booting device for webOS?

    What's going on inside that little black phone?
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  2. #2  
    From what I can tell on my TP with Warthog, most of the time taken is by fs-ck after an improper shutdown and sometimes a routine check. Other things that take forever are WiFi and Bluetooth. There is some kind of boot tracking program that you can enable, but I've never tried it.
  3. #3  
    In general: I believe the theory is that it is a phone and except for a few occasions you will always leave it on.

    webOS, however, seems to have a lot of reboots and Luna restarts as we mod our devices. It's a tradeoff. I recognize that there is a way longer boot time than most mobile OS's.

    I believe it must be something in your personal mix of patches, mods, apps that pushes your boot times to such an extreme...

    Why not use Airplane mode when you board that jet airliner? It would save you a lot of heartache.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

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  4. #4  
    cant a sort of savestate like emulators use be implimented to restore a "norm" bootup faster, then load up the extras afterwards?

    didnt old computers like the c64 do the same, i remember having a tape loaded program or some disk loaded programs that took AGES, then mr handy freeze frame and mr action replay came along and BAM you had laser saves that all took <10 to load but as a tradeoff ate more disk space to save into.

    surely a "boot to normal" stage would never change, wouldnt a ram/etc snapshot type affair do just the same but skip a ton of slow work. (obviously not that simple but similar situatiosn exist for other applications).

    not sure if i got what i meant accross properly.
    Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
  5. #5  
    Someone could investigate adding hibernate modes to the system, I'd think. However, there might be issues with bringing the hardware back up after a hibernate. It'd probably be worth looking into, though, if it's not too difficult to get running. I have no idea how hibernate works in Linux.

    One theory that I have, since we saw with my experiments trying to run Luna 3.0 on webOS 2, that the boot time was significantly reduced when it was completely unable to even attempt to start apps (whereas ultimately, when I stopped working on that, it was a failure in the display rather than the launching of them, i think) .. would be to try removing all the apps from the file that lists apps to startup on boot, and see if that makes any marked difference.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
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    GO OPEN WEBOS!
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  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    ...Why not use Airplane mode when you board that jet airliner? It would save you a lot of heartache.
    Check HERE for a discussion...and that thread will have a link to THIS ONE. I flew again this week, and the flight crew was very specific...NOT AIRPLANE MODE...OFF...POWER IT DOWN...Don't put it in some hibernation state....turn the device completely off.
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  7. #7  
    The main "boot" time is lunasysmgr and the apps that load before "ready". Minimum at boot you have all radio drivers loading, then lunasysmgr, phone, email, calendar apps, and depending on your settings for phone and calendar I would imagine both are attempting to sync as launch (before you even see the screen as ready).

    For example radios are booted a while before the display shows "ready", BT will connect before you get to that point for example. When I say connect I mean fully connected and ready to use with the other device.

    A thought could be that other OS's have some way of booting/powering the radios after the device shows as ready for use.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  8. #8  
    I will add my two cents...

    Power on... Bootie... Kernel... FS-CK... Modules... Luna... System scans (indexer, app scan, Network, etc...

    One can modify in Luna.conf, scancalculatesappsizes, automigrateappsatboot, etc...)
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    I believe it must be something in your personal mix of patches, mods, apps that pushes your boot times to such an extreme...
    It's long even without any patching and modding I believe.

    I thought I heard somewhere about it checking the entire fs, but im not sure on that.
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  10. #10  
    Ever thought of defragmenting the hard drive of the device? Mine was 52% the last time I did it and it runs much faster now, boot time has decreased too.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by lephilwld View Post
    Ever thought of defragmenting the hard drive of the device? Mine was 52% the last time I did it and it runs much faster now, boot time has decreased too.
    How do you defrag the 'hard drive' of a Pre2? Is it done when hooked up as a USB drive and then by running Defrag from within the Windows System Tools (running Windows XP (SP3)? Or, is there a defrag option within webOS....if so, where do I find it?
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
    I will add my two cents...

    Power on... Bootie... Kernel... FS-CK... Modules... Luna... System scans (indexer, app scan, Network, etc...

    One can modify in Luna.conf, scancalculatesappsizes, automigrateappsatboot, etc...)

    John that's more than 2 cents...at least 2 bits...or bytes!

    I apologize as I am not very savvy on terminology...remember, I'm just a simple caveman with a smartphone...and Geico insurance...

    I am running Uberkernal OnDemand 1200.

    What is FS-CK?

    Are you saying I can modify what all is 'checked' or 'scanned' in the boot up that may reduce my 'eternal flame' at bootup? I was wondering where I can do that. I looked at the Luna Manager under Preware and that just gives me three options, to rescan, restart Luna, and to restart Java. Sorry I'm so dense.
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by lephilwld View Post
    Ever thought of defragmenting the hard drive of the device? Mine was 52% the last time I did it and it runs much faster now, boot time has decreased too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbeast View Post
    How do you defrag the 'hard drive' of a Pre2? Is it done when hooked up as a USB drive and then by running Defrag from within the Windows System Tools (running Windows XP (SP3)? Or, is there a defrag option within webOS....if so, where do I find it?
    Do -NOT- defrag flash memory devices. It will make no difference whatsoever, and makes thousands of unnecessary write operations, decreasing the overall lifetime of your flash memory.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  14. #14  
    As I recall, HP bought a company that had developed tecniques to optimize boot time specifically.... Did anyone forget that ?

    Seems like HP did.

    But hey, that seems to be the way HP does "business" : Buy > throw away.

    Edit:
    2010-06-11: HP acquires Linux fast-boot technology
    HP has agreed to purchase the HyperSpace Linux fast-boot technology from Phoenix Technologies in a deal due to be completed later this month. In addition to purchasing HyperSpace, HP will acquire Phoenix's HyperCore and Phoenix Flip instant-on and client virtualization products, with all three products netting $12 million in cash, says Phoenix Technologies.

    Link: HP acquires Linux fast-boot technology - News - Linux for Devices
    Last edited by karstenskov; 10/27/2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Just found it again
    WebOS still makes sense.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbeast View Post
    John that's more than 2 cents...at least 2 bits...or bytes!

    I apologize as I am not very savvy on terminology...remember, I'm just a simple caveman with a smartphone...and Geico insurance...

    I am running Uberkernal OnDemand 1200.

    What is FS-CK?

    Are you saying I can modify what all is 'checked' or 'scanned' in the boot up that may reduce my 'eternal flame' at bootup? I was wondering where I can do that. I looked at the Luna Manager under Preware and that just gives me three options, to rescan, restart Luna, and to restart Java. Sorry I'm so dense.
    File System Checker is run as part of startup to validate each partition, it looks at a flag and if the flag is dirty it checks each file system, if one has a lot of files it can take a long time, one can disable this (we are using linux after all), but I would not.

    Now the luna.conf file is on the file system under /etc/palm, this configuration file defines luna's settings (use internalz in master mode to view/modify).

    The are other things one can do clean up databases, remove unused apps, defragmenting is not needed, but leaving holes does cause a slow down, but nand flash is fast so the slow down is not noticed as much. Where it comes to speed it is stopping the processes that are not needed all the time one can modify the etc run tables and system services. But if you stop the indexer, one installs new music/pictures/videos etc, the database will not refresh...

    Same with scanning for new apps, as a developer, I have lots of apps installed via copy from /media/internal to /media/cryptofs which are the discovered and work, but not installed via preware/findapps(app catalog),webosquickinstaller etc...

    One can turn off logging, by default webOS 2.2.4/3.0.5 have a lot of debugging logging turned on...

    One can change the memory management (disk is ram), swap partition, etc...

    There are so many ways...
  16. #16  
    Luna itself actually boots very fast- if you disable the startup/background apps it takes < 10secs.

    Luna 3.x on stock TP install- 15-30sec
    Luna 3.x on Pre3 with startup apps disabled- 5-10sec
    OWO Luna on GNex with no startup apps present- 3sec

    I would imagine this is because of the process-blocking model the apps use. If one's loading all the others have to wait, just like if you were to open a whole bunch of cards at once. Since HP are moving to Qt5 and WebKit2 with OWO, I imagine this will be mitigated somewhat.
    webOS Ports' UI Architect & luna-sysmgr guru.
    OldSkoolVWLover likes this.
  17. #17  
    How do you disable those background applications or have them start after the main screen is shown and ready to use?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    Do -NOT- defrag flash memory devices. It will make no difference whatsoever, and makes thousands of unnecessary write operations, decreasing the overall lifetime of your flash memory.
    Thanks for your reply, it might have been a placebo then
  19. #19  
    this is the information I was looking for. I have been doing some research on faster boot times and there seems to be 2 approaches. 1. Instant-on which uses extra hardware specifically for it, which normally loads up a stopped down version of the OS.. 2. A lot of the faster booting linux load up only the needed parts for the UI to be launched then they start up the rest of the "stuff"

    so if it is loading something that isn't needed right away at boot like Bluetooth or radios on TVs there might be a way to be postpone them till after UI is loaded.

    I am unaware if there is a way hold off when certain apps from loading. so the UI displays but those apps won't be able to be used right away and will load after the UI is loaded.

    any idea if this is possible?


    Quote Originally Posted by ShiftyAxel View Post
    Luna itself actually boots very fast- if you disable the startup/background apps it takes < 10secs.

    Luna 3.x on stock TP install- 15-30sec
    Luna 3.x on Pre3 with startup apps disabled- 5-10sec
    OWO Luna on GNex with no startup apps present- 3sec

    I would imagine this is because of the process-blocking model the apps use. If one's loading all the others have to wait, just like if you were to open a whole bunch of cards at once. Since HP are moving to Qt5 and WebKit2 with OWO, I imagine this will be mitigated somewhat.
    Rocking out Franken Pre2 2.2.4 and TP 3.0.5

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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiftyAxel View Post
    Luna itself actually boots very fast- if you disable the startup/background apps it takes < 10sec.

    I would imagine this is because of the process-blocking model the apps use. If one's loading all the others have to wait, just like if you were to open a whole bunch of cards at once. Since HP are moving to Qt5 and WebKit2 with OWO, I imagine this will be mitigated somewhat.
    As a thought, if this is the way things are happening, would it be possible to programme in a boot task scheduler or something to that effect so that the device is on fast, then radios, then core apps, then everything else
    Nokia Lumia 920 (daily driver ) - HP TouchPad 32Gb (in daily use) - TouchPad 16Gb (out on loan to a friend) - Pre 3 (AT&T - unlocked) - Pre3 (EU - dev mule) - Veer Panda (AT&T - unlocked, dunno what I'm gonna do with it) - Pre (much abused n stored for sentimental reasons)

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