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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Bada? It has been very successful in the markets they have targeted and for the phones it is released on - certainly more successful than flops like webos or WP7.





    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    Not true. Bada has also marketed my country (The Netherlands) and stores aren't even selling the new Bada phones anymore because "[...]we tried to make people want it, but we don't see it taking off."
    I also see noone with Bada out on the streets and I do travel almost every day with public transportation and in the cities, so I do get to see a lot of people with phones. Never ever saw it.

    But even if stores here are declining the new Bada phones, than it means that at least in my country it didn't take off and my country was one of the countries thatyou call targets.

    Plus, even Samsung itself calls it a faliure: http://badahub.com/2012/05/samsung-i...-mid-2013.html
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    The other thing is that I think a lot of the current OEMs rather than adopt another OS will simply go out of business or exit the sector.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    Hmmm... Mobile computing is on the rise at the expense of desktop... Mobile is increasingly where the money is at...

    Mobile Computing Is Killing the Desktop PC — Tech News and Analysis

    Uh-oh, PC: Half of computing device sales are mobile — Mobile Technology News

    Infographic: Mobile Statistics, Stats & Facts 2011*|*Digital Buzz Blog

    And you believe in and champion the idea that multiple OEM corporations will just quietly walk away or die without fighting???

    Really???

    You always mention the $$$ that companies want. It's your mantra. Now you espouse that they will just shrivel up and ignore a future source of income that appears to be sustainable for quite some time...

    I'm not sure I understand your philosophy at all. Companies want money, but won''t do anything to ensure they can achieve that goal. Is that right? What am I missing? Please provide some sort of information other than "CGK says..."

    Last edited by RumoredNow; 07/15/2012 at 02:27 PM.
    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    If word of mouth was great or was the key to WebOS, it would not have sold fewer and fewer phones with every release.

    The Touchpad didn't make any kind of dent in the marketplace until it was put on sale at the same price as the worst of the worst tablets. Even that didn't result in any meaningful word of mouth.
    it was available for a month or so, and the pre3 1 day, hardly time to pickup momentum when a few got it.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    it was available for a month or so, and the pre3 1 day, hardly time to pickup momentum when a few got it.
    WebOS has been in the US marketplace since June 2009.
    dignitary and SnotBoogie like this.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmPixi_User23 View Post
    Why do you say no chance in HELL that could happen in 2012 or 2013? It's not that impossible for a device to show up by the end of the year running on WebOS, its up to those stupid people from HP to play their cards right and speak with the manufacturers to make devices with an offer for an alternative OS operating system than Android or Windows Mobile. But again we are talk about an incompetent company like HP that their innovation shortly lasted with the invention of the printers. And talking about limited coverage of the Press, its also HP making their voices be heard with the press with sending statements of probably making an event to discuss the new Open Source project for WebOS and maybe some members might get re-excited by the news out of WebOS that maybe get more than little coverage.

    Look at Microsoft, with how they are talking to manufacturers to make windows mobile 8 devices and even some promising some will become available by the end of this year. The company Microsoft doesn't play with their thumbs(sitting on their laurels) waiting for someone to approach them, instead they are the ones pushing the platform forward with their deal talks with HTC, Samsung and LG. Why HP couldn't do the same ?, That's right its all HP, wasting their times while other companies makes their moves into the mobile market space with smartphones and tablets. Smart HP !!!
    Seriously, I admire your optimism and passion but none of what you say is based in any reality. You mention microsoft as a model with their surface tablet. MS has is in a completely different business - they have been in the mobile business (to varyijng degrees of success) for years, HP only dabbled here and their track record is sketchy.

    Since the cancelling of webos hardware HP has never made any comment about getting back in the phone business. There was an offhand comment from Meg early on about possible tablets but even that was nothing concrete. Whether we like it or not (and you clearly dont) openwebos is a face saving exercise for HP - shows they are still making commitments to the platform (albeit very limited) by spending a minimum of cash.

    HP have already lost millions on webos (much of it down to their own poor decision making) but if you expect them to simply start throwing money on marketing and putting together a team to engage with other OEM's to sell and promote openwebos you are dreaming. I'm sorry to say, but this will never happen.
    Touchpad 4G, Pre3
    dignitary likes this.
  6. #46  
    Why are you still discussing Bada, when Samsung is already working on reusing the good stuff, building it into Tizen? Bada is gone. Parts of it will be reborn in Tizen. Tizen is bigger, marketwise and has the support of other partners, like Intel...

    Oh and WebOS has .... nothing. Well, it has HP which is, on the mobile sector ... nothing.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    WebOS has been in the US marketplace since June 2009.
    the quote I replied to mentioned the touchpad, rather than webOS itsself.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
    Why are you still discussing Bada, when Samsung is already working on reusing the good stuff, building it into Tizen? Bada is gone. Parts of it will be reborn in Tizen. Tizen is bigger, marketwise and has the support of other partners, like Intel...

    Oh and WebOS has .... nothing. Well, it has HP which is, on the mobile sector ... nothing.
    And again, we don't know yet what HP has. Or are you working for HP, knowing all the connections, knowing tha they might have a deal? I guess not. What happens behindthe scenes, we don't know. Maybe they are talking with OEM's, who knows, we only hear it afterwards if something has come out of that.
  9. #49  
    Can I vote for this as "Rowdiest Thread of the Month"???

    Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

    Windows Central Senior Ambassador

    Mobile Nations Devotee
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    the quote I replied to mentioned the touchpad, rather than webOS itsself.
    If you want to narrow it down to the Touchpad, it has now been in the hands of people for a year and where is the word of mouth?
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by steven_farkas View Post
    Since the cancelling of webos hardware HP has never made any comment about getting back in the phone business. There was an offhand comment from Meg early on about possible tablets but even that was nothing concrete. Whether we like it or not (and you clearly dont) openwebos is a face saving exercise for HP - shows they are still making commitments to the platform (albeit very limited) by spending a minimum of cash.
    I didn't mentioned at anytime about HP getting back into the phone business, I only made a few comments about what those people at HP could start doing to place WebOS on the road-map all over again. We're are away(just weeks off) of WebOS hitting "Open Source", yet we haven't seen any action of HP of what they're planning to do with WebOS after the deadline hit on the fall season around September. And HP has so far have said anything, or there hasn't been any kind of words of reports in the media about this open sourcing. Let's hope that whatever those at HP are actually doing, they could at least do something right once and for all(in the history of the entire company). Google, Windows, RIM, Apple showed all their cards on past events on what's to come to those platforms -- Yet the questions remains of what HP has done since January for the WebOS platform ? Could they bring iCloud to WebOS, Voice Control(Ala Siri), UI speed improvements, enhanced multitasking capability, Wifi Sync, more API for developers and ultimately a better browser with Flash 11 compatibility ?

    Quote Originally Posted by steven_farkas View Post
    HP have already lost millions on webos (much of it down to their own poor decision making) but if you expect them to simply start throwing money on marketing and putting together a team to engage with other OEM's to sell and promote openwebos you are dreaming. I'm sorry to say, but this will never happen.
    And About HP loosing millions of dollars that's a bunch of boloney, that I'm not going to believe even if Mrs. Whitman got on hers knees and told me "I Swear to God". The marketing that they did for WebOS(poorly done) only cost them a few millions that probably won't even reach 100 million dollars in total. In my opinion, the most millions they probably poorly invested into any kind of marketing(for WebOS) was those silly commercial hiring actors and the boxer( Manny Pacquiao) to tout a TouchPad on their faces to say a few words on TV. If anyone calls that marketing that pretty much of a stretch(seriously), I wouldn't even know what to call that mess that HP did when marketing WebOS.
    Owner of an HP TouchPad (32GB) and a brand new Palm Pre 3 (16GB) for VZ wireless.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    And again, we don't know yet what HP has. Or are you working for HP, knowing all the connections, knowing tha they might have a deal? I guess not. What happens behindthe scenes, we don't know. Maybe they are talking with OEM's, who knows, we only hear it afterwards if something has come out of that.
    I don't know, you tell me (taken from another thread):
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    With Uberkernel and Muffle System Logging, everything runs buttery smooth. Just put OpenWebOS on it and install those 2 and then it'll fly.
    You appear to be assuming in other threads that Open webOS is being targeted for phones, but no news has ever come out saying any such thing. Are you aware of some information behind the scenes?

    Point being, nobody knows anything about Open webOS, OEMs, or anything until it's finally released and devices are announced. Lots of assumptions flying around here when everything at this point should merely be speculation and opinion.

    As for me, I don't think HP has OEMs lined up nor will they be targeting existing webOS phones--or phones at all--with Open webOS. Am I right? About as right as anyone making guesses around here. My glass is merely half-empty until proven otherwise, based on the long, long string of reasons over the past 3 years that bolster a case for not being optimistic about webOS.

    It's when people start assuming or claiming Open webOS will be on a certain device or that there will be OEMs that people undermine their own case.
    Last edited by dignitary; 07/17/2012 at 01:09 AM.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmPixi_User23 View Post
    Could they bring iCloud to WebOS, Voice Control(Ala Siri), UI speed improvements, enhanced multitasking capability, Wifi Sync, more API for developers and ultimately a better browser with Flash 11 compatibility ?
    1. iCloud: Possible, I suppose. I'd pin this on being a community-based contribution, honestly.
    2. Voice Control: Currently webOS' Voice Control is nowhere even close to Siri--it's like comparing a kindergartener to a PhD--and Google has an entire division working on their own version in Android 4.1. Incredibly unlikely given the necessary investment, and I don't think people understand just how much investment of time and people has to go into such a system, much less making it good enough for everyday use. If the OpenMobile ACL is ever released, there are some decent, well-funded attempts in Google Play worth checking out--but nowhere on the level of Siri or Google's home-grown version. Keep in mind, even Apple had to buy an entire company to get Siri.
    3. UI Speed Improvements: I sure as hell hope so. Open webOS is doomed if they can't get this right once and for all.
    4. Enhanced Multitasking: Like what? There's only so far you can go with this before it becomes a ironically becomes a user experience nightmare. webOS always hit the sweet spot for this, and complicating it with dozens of different ways of pinching, swiping, and zooming to do everything under the sun will turn casual users away in a heartbeat when some action they didn't mean to make manages to clear all their cards or does something they didn't intend to. Fine line.
    5. Wi-Fi Sync: And sync with what popular desktop software people can easily obtain? Possible, I suppose, given even more investment HP won't throw at it. And don't even say iTunes, because that's just not gonna happen; older webOS vets like myself remember what happened when Palm tried directly syncing with iTunes back in the day, and it wasn't pretty when Apple struck back. You'd need to build a multi-platform desktop client to handle this, and HP Play just wasn't up to the task even in rough form.
    6. Flash 11 Compatibility: This would require HP themselves to port Flash 11 to webOS, since Adobe abandoned mobile Flash about 6-8 months ago already. Chrome for Android (the new default Android 4.1 browser) doesn't even support Flash anymore, nor does iOS (obviously). Pointless given that the creator of Flash themselves doesn't even want it on mobile, isn't it? It really is time for people to let go of this idea once and for all: Flash is dead on mobile, and HTML5 is the future. The time and resource investment spent porting a dead plugin to a barely-breathing platform just isn't worth it.
    7. Better Browser in General: For the love of all that is good, I hope that the core browser (presumably Isis) continues to keep up with modern Webkit instead of the ancient (and hardly competitive) Webkit versions they've used up through webOS 3.x. It's just painful to see its HTML5 Test score rank so pitifully for devices that have long claimed to be leveraging the bleeding edge of modern web development. If Open webOS can't keep its browser current, it will die a very hasty death when neither web developers nor app developers will give it a second thought.
    Last edited by dignitary; 07/17/2012 at 01:07 AM.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    And again, we don't know yet what HP has. Or are you working for HP, knowing all the connections, knowing tha they might have a deal? I guess not. What happens behindthe scenes, we don't know. Maybe they are talking with OEM's, who knows, we only hear it afterwards if something has come out of that.
    And again, like in Firefox OS and many (actually ALL) of the other products coming out, you WILL and you MUST know beforehand, which devices are coming. You don't start marketing AFTER the product is out for months, you start marketing BEFORE it comes out.

    openWebOS shall be finished in September. If there would be a hardware partner yet, we would have heard of it.

    And if you still don't see the truth in that, think of those miraculously "lost" or "forgotten in a bar" iPhone-prototypes, that showed up a few months before the device actually came.

    So again: NO, they won't keep a deal quiet, that could prepare the market for a device...

    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmPixi_User23 View Post
    I didn't mentioned at anytime about HP getting back into the phone business, I only made a few comments about what those people at HP could start doing to place WebOS on the road-map all over again. We're are away(just weeks off) of WebOS hitting "Open Source", yet we haven't seen any action of HP of what they're planning to do with WebOS after the deadline hit on the fall season around September. And HP has so far have said anything, or there hasn't been any kind of words of reports in the media about this open sourcing. Let's hope that whatever those at HP are actually doing, they could at least do something right once and for all(in the history of the entire company). Google, Windows, RIM, Apple showed all their cards on past events on what's to come to those platforms -- Yet the questions remains of what HP has done since January for the WebOS platform ? Could they bring iCloud to WebOS, Voice Control(Ala Siri), UI speed improvements, enhanced multitasking capability, Wifi Sync, more API for developers and ultimately a better browser with Flash 11 compatibility ?

    I think the limited webos team left in HP is working to maintain the release schedule (which they have hit every milestone to date) and get an actual fully open and working version of the OS to market. Are you a developer? Have you ever written an operating system? Better yet an open source one? HP said from the start that there are proprietary bits of the OS that were not owned by HP that needed to be re-written in order to fully open source webos. I may be wrong here, but I would expect thats where the majority of the development effort is going, and not on adding the functions you list above. I expect they're hoping the community and others will work on those once openwebos is available.

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmPixi_User23 View Post
    And About HP loosing millions of dollars that's a bunch of boloney, that I'm not going to believe even if Mrs. Whitman got on hers knees and told me "I Swear to God". The marketing that they did for WebOS(poorly done) only cost them a few millions that probably won't even reach 100 million dollars in total. In my opinion, the most millions they probably poorly invested into any kind of marketing(for WebOS) was those silly commercial hiring actors and the boxer( Manny Pacquiao) to tout a TouchPad on their faces to say a few words on TV. If anyone calls that marketing that pretty much of a stretch(seriously), I wouldn't even know what to call that mess that HP did when marketing WebOS.
    I love how you throw around numbers like 100 million dollars like its nothing. Why should we expect HP to throw 100 million dollars at marketing openwebos when the return is likely to be nowhere near that? Would you bet your mortgage on a 500-1 shot at the track because you like the horses coat? In addition, my comments about losses were on the entire webos debacle at HP, not just marketing.
    Touchpad 4G, Pre3
    SnotBoogie likes this.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by RumoredNow View Post
    Can I vote for this as "Rowdiest Thread of the Month"???

    seconded!
    Touchpad 4G, Pre3
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by steven_farkas View Post
    I think the limited webos team left in HP is working to maintain the release schedule (which they have hit every milestone to date) and get an actual fully open and working version of the OS to market. Are you a developer? Have you ever written an operating system? Better yet an open source one? HP said from the start that there are proprietary bits of the OS that were not owned by HP that needed to be re-written in order to fully open source webos. I may be wrong here, but I would expect thats where the majority of the development effort is going, and not on adding the functions you list above. I expect they're hoping the community and others will work on those once openwebos is available.
    ....
    No your not wrong. You are most probably right and that was how I read HPs announcement. :Thumbsup: to that.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
    And again, like in Firefox OS and many (actually ALL) of the other products coming out, you WILL and you MUST know beforehand, which devices are coming. You don't start marketing AFTER the product is out for months, you start marketing BEFORE it comes out.

    openWebOS shall be finished in September. If there would be a hardware partner yet, we would have heard of it.

    And if you still don't see the truth in that, think of those miraculously "lost" or "forgotten in a bar" iPhone-prototypes, that showed up a few months before the device actually came.

    So again: NO, they won't keep a deal quiet, that could prepare the market for a device...

    Or the devices will come slightly after the first release of OpenWebOS. Btw, how do you know they're on track for September? They're not even on schedule right now so who knows if they're gonna make the deadline?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
    I don't know, you tell me (taken from another thread):


    You appear to be assuming in other threads that Open webOS is being targeted for phones, but no news has ever come out saying any such thing. Are you aware of some information behind the scenes?

    Point being, nobody knows anything about Open webOS, OEMs, or anything until it's finally released and devices are announced. Lots of assumptions flying around here when everything at this point should merely be speculation and opinion.

    As for me, I don't think HP has OEMs lined up nor will they be targeting existing webOS phones--or phones at all--with Open webOS. Am I right? About as right as anyone making guesses around here. My glass is merely half-empty until proven otherwise, based on the long, long string of reasons over the past 3 years that bolster a case for not being optimistic about webOS.

    It's when people start assuming or claiming Open webOS will be on a certain device or that there will be OEMs that people undermine their own case.
    Yes, I know information that was posted by WebOS Ports. Oh wait, our own dev team is lying about the targets? Oh no, that's a shame. I won't trust them anymore then
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
    ... Btw, how do you know they're on track for September? ..?

    Hence the use of the word "shall" ... (subjunctively, IIRC, but english ain't my mother tongue, so this might have been misleading).

    Oh, BTW, fitting to this thread:
    Jolla signs distribution deal China's largest phone retailer

    So Jolla (Meego-followup) has China.

    HP has ... well ... still nothing.

    hehehehe.
    But go ahead and let hope get the better of you, I rather bet on the known horse: HP does again, too little, too late.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
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