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  1.    #1  
    It's a mystery to me why jI can't find a WebOS dictionary that I can use even when I'm out of range of phone and wifi. On the Treo Centro I previously used, I had resident English-French, English-Spanish (the Oxford dictionary) as well as many other apps where the data resided on my phone. 16B - I now have 12gb free - is plenty of space for even the largest data sets, not to mention 32gb on my Touchpad. Why have we lost so much convenience when we moved to WebOS? It makes no sense to me.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  2. #2  
    Because it's far easier to code, simply. The device is designed to work online, not offline. As such, it's much easier to use AJAX than a local database. It's not that it can't be done, but it's more effort to code.

    Add to the fact that webOS has a dramatically smaller marketshare than iOS or Android, and there is little desire for most developers to spend the time on it. (Whereas, back in the day, PalmOS has a pretty large market share.)
    Richard Neff

    My tutorials on WebOS development: Beyond 'Hello World!' | Getting Started - WebOS Development

    My apps: Percent Table | SierraPapa
  3. #3  
    +1 on this
    its annoying, but i deal with it + cache stuff beforehand
    :P
  4.    #4  
    Seems to that all it would take is one relational data structure that could be used by anyone who wants to set up a database. And dictionairies are even easier. Heck, even a spreadsheet would work. Aside from that, there's hardly any coding involved. That's why it still makes no sense to me. The device may be made to work online, but the many of us are offline when we need data access; I've been in too many homes where there was no coverage and no wifi, and I needed my Spanish-English dictionary. That's why I still have my Pixi+ with Classic and the Oxford Spanish-English dictionary. But then, I have to carry both devices.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  5. #5  
    i find it ironic, since we have a thousand times more memory and everythings up in the cloud
    i sort of keep Noah Pro on Classic for dictionary needs xD
    i guess they just want us to use more data! (but im using my pre wi-fi only, so hah)
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  6. #6  
    It's a mystery to me to, there are a number of resident dictionaries available, just search the app catalog for "offline dictionary".

    Free examples:
    oshidict
    http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-...plication.html
    offlinedict

    The articles I read about WebOS before buying the touchpad explicitly stressed WebOS as a cloud OS so it doesn't surprise me.

    HP plans cloud, WebOS on PCs
    HP Cloud, webOS Plans Face Google, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle Challenge - Cloud Computing - News & Reviews - eWeek.com
    WebOs and Cloud Computing
  7. #7  
    Also, it's worth noting that in addition to the coding simplicity of using an online-hosted dictionary, you also get the benefit of a dictionary that's constantly being updated. More often than not such apps will be used within cellular coverage, so the coding effort to support a fringe use case often just isn't worth it for the developer.
    "'Form follows function' that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union."
    Frank Lloyd Wright
  8. #8  
    It would take some kind of native coding, outside of our normal web-app type of thing, to actually be able to do this, unless the database were created either (a) at first app startup or (b) over time inside the app. Either that, or accessing it via some kind of non-random-access file, which could take upwards of forever to search through.

    It would certainly be best to do with some kind of database setup, but there's no way to load a pre-created database file with an app. A dismal failure for Palm to not realize that some people might need to ship a large volume of data with an application, without spending a huge amount of time filing it into the system database.
    Author:
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    GO OPEN WEBOS!
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  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    It would take some kind of native coding, outside of our normal web-app type of thing, to actually be able to do this, unless the database were created either (a) at first app startup or (b) over time inside the app. Either that, or accessing it via some kind of non-random-access file, which could take upwards of forever to search through.

    It would certainly be best to do with some kind of database setup, but there's no way to load a pre-created database file with an app. A dismal failure for Palm to not realize that some people might need to ship a large volume of data with an application, without spending a huge amount of time filing it into the system database.
    If you had a WebOS general-purpose database (like SQL, for example, or DB2, or the relational database that ran on Palm), that any developer could use, they could simply build the database, populate it, build the front end, put it into a package and make it available on Preware or the App Catalog. Searches don't take too much time when you use indexes (but you need to be careful to limit the number of indexes). Sure, I'm simplifying the process, but once you have the database, it's really not hard.

    I will look for "offline dictionaries". But dictionaries are just one example.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  10. #10  
    OfflineDict may work for you but its far from an ideal solution. You'll be providing your own dictionaries (there are a few download sites) which arent very large. Also, as I recall, there is a limitation requiring the splitting of databases (10k entries each).

    The solution using Classic may be a better one as the PalmOS dictionary DBs are by far more complete. Because of this, I have a burning hope that Classic gets opened up or patched for the Pre3/TP to allow full screen or Hi-Res + resolution (320x480).

    OfflineDict is not too bad though, given the situation, and for recognizing and addressing the need, the dev has my gratitude.

    HoshiDict is also worth looking into although I cant say much about the StarDict DBs.

    Edit:
    got HoshiDict working w/ the large Wordnet DB from here.
    Last edited by p41m3r; 03/26/2012 at 12:30 PM.
  11. #11  
    shneor, sure, there's a database in the system, that any app can use. However, there's no way to get it to use pre-existing database information .. so for something large like a dictionary (number of record wise) it's going to be quite a lengthy process to build that database, doing thousands of inserts, even when batched.

    When I first came around here, there were a lot of developers asking around about ways to use their own sqlite data files .. only way to do that is to build sqlite into your app as well, because the system one can't be co-opted to read pre-built data.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  12.    #12  
    I'm not talking about a database that is already built in. I'm talking about installing a WebOS equivalent to SQL and for that matter, Excel. Maybe with fewer bells and whistles. Once that data structure is installed, it's easy to create databases with preset indexes. Speed should not be an issue, particularly with the Touchpad's dual core processor. So the data structure (similar to SQL) needs to be built once, anyone who wants to pout together a datase can use that same structure, then make it available to everyone who had the data structure installed. Maybe instead of data structure I should call it a database system? Not a data base, until someone puts data into a database.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by RickNeff View Post
    Because it's far easier to code, simply. The device is designed to work online, not offline. As such, it's much easier to use AJAX than a local database. It's not that it can't be done, but it's more effort to code.
    You're joking right?
  14. #14  
    I only have 4.8 gigs free on my Pre3

    And I don't have any music loaded on the device (I do have some podcasts downloaded).
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  15. #15  
    Well, assuming that you're storing a dictionary that has 150,000 words in it, and each word has a row in the database, when you first start it up, that's going to require doing 150,000 inserts to the database (or staggering it out over time). That will take a -very- -long- -time-.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  16. #16  
    Dude. 150,000 inserts? Even a crappy programmer could get that into a regular database in under 10 seconds. But since I don't know the structure or if indexes are in place, it seems reasonable that the install could get 150k rows in under a minute?

    I don't know much about the palm db tho...

    Anyways, the point is that even if it were a structured sorted file, even without a database, you coud easily do a word lookup in less than 1/100th of a second.
    Last edited by LizardWiz; 03/26/2012 at 04:35 PM.
  17.    #17  
    Of course you'd have indexes. But for dictionaries, a spreadsheet format would be much more lightweight. So what if it took a minute or even five to load the data? The important thing is that you can load many databases into a database management system. What's needed is a standard build that every developer could use, with multiple data types to accomodate different requirements. And these could be added over time. There are good models out there, including open-source.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  18. #18  
    my 144 MHz Zire 71 searched a 5 megabyte dictionary db (Noah Pro) in 3 seconds (on the SD card too)

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