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  1. dan-o's Avatar
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       #1  
    I'm not a programmer so I have no idea. Wonder what the webos gurus here think.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/te....html?_r=1&hpw

    a few snips....

    WebOS turned out to be something of a toxic asset. Several former Palm and H.P. employees involved in WebOS say that there was little hope for the software from the beginning, because the way it was built was so deeply flawed.

    Mr. Mercer was well known in the design world for his contributions to several of Apple’s most important products, and Palm recruited him. After some internal debate, the company chose to have WebOS rely on WebKit, an open-source software engine used by browsers to display Web pages. Mr. Mercer said that this was a mistake because it prevented applications from running fast enough to be on par with the iPhone.

    Matias Duarte, vice president of human interface and user experience for WebOS, left a month after the acquisition for a job at Google. Several people said his departure was a major loss. “He was WebOS,” the former member of the WebOS software team said of Mr. Duarte. “When he left, the vacuum was just palpable. What you’re seeing is frankly a bunch of fourth- and fifth-stringers jumping onto WebOS in the wake of Duarte’s leaving.” Mr. Duarte did not respond to a request for an interview.

    Sam Greenblatt, chief technology officer at H.P., acknowledged in an interview that earlier versions of WebOS could be slow. But he said recent improvements in WebKit and WebOS over all had sped up performance. He shared H.P.’s continued ambitions for WebOS — that it would eventually expand into computers, televisions, even cars. “The No. 1 objective is to take the code to the next level,” he said.

    But Mr. Mercer insisted that WebKit would still leave WebOS underpowered relative to Apple’s software.

    “If the bar is to build Cupertino-class software in terms of responsiveness and beauty,” he said, “WebKit remains not ready for prime time, because the Web cannot deliver yet.”
  2. jdod's Avatar
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    #2  
    Sprint since 01/06/99: Sanyo SCP-4500 -> Audiovox PPC-6700 -> Palm Treo 755p -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre 1.4.5 -> Jailbroken iPhone 4s
  3. #3  
    The coding super-gurus will probably give better detail on this, so I'll refrain, but essentially, that article is largely wrong. It may have been more applicable during the infancy of webOS, when everything was based on the Mojo framework, but not so much now with Enyo/hybrid apps, and certainly not with pure PDK apps, which are fully pre-compiled into native machine code just like iphone apps.
    Last edited by sq5; 01/03/2012 at 09:06 AM.
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  4. dan-o's Avatar
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       #4  
    I didn't see that one but i would argue it was posted under the wrong forum!
  5. gbp
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    #5  
    The guy who wrote this article conveniently quoted the negatives by ex Palm staff. It looks like he is out there to tarnish webOS. There are many other reasons why webOS gadgets failed, not innovating quick, not releasing phones with other form factors, holding best gadget while selling the worst (Pre3 Vs Veer). Basically not putting enough effort is the main reason. Not Ruby, not Matias and not definitely Mr.Mercer
  6. #6  
    he writes the article as if webos will never exist again

    when in reality it still exists, and shall continue to exist, and will possibly perpetuate

    this is a marathon, not a sprint
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  7. #7  
    Puuuuuuuuuutzzz... Everybody in press still insist that the problem was the SO?

    The real problem was "not releasing phones enough". Remember: the PrPrPré³ $was$ $not$ $sold$ $in$ $USA$, $webOS$ $was$ $available$ $only$ $in$ $few$ $countries$, $the$ $Touchpad$ $was$ $expensive$ $in$ $agressive$ $market$...

    The Android devices is selling because there is MANY diferent devices in MANY different prices. If is cheap and "looks a good smartphone" (reality or not), form factor go to second place.

    iOS devices is selling because there is many, many, many, MANY ads pro-Apple. The biggest part of his users only use call and text, but buy a expensive device because "saw in some place that is the best" (reality or not), and really don't know what can do with him.


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  8. #8  
    I agreed with Rnp. If Palm released Pre+Pixi worldwide, I bet the fate of webOS will be very different. That's the biggest mistake that Palm ever done. And funny thing is this mistake followed by HP. When TouchPad still 2-3 days available in Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia. Leo announced to stop making webOS device. He / HP only counted TouchPad launch failure in USA. They never think that Asia + Australia will be bigger market compared to USA + several Europe countries.
  9. #9  
    As I wrote in the other thread, this is expected... you'll see a spate of articles by "experts" and other kinds of authors on how horrible webOS was/ is. "It's a no-brainier," they'll say, "it never had any chance of succeeding. You are all stupid idiots, definitely"
    Game over!
  10. #10  
    Just a bunch of C++ and Java phanbois is all it is... afraid of the change that is taking place in the world.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    Just a bunch of C++ and Java phanbois is all it is... afraid of the change that is taking place in the world.
    Mercer is probably ****ed since Ruby ditched his Java-based runtime environment in favour of webkit. I would name this article his personal revenge.
    Newness Developments apps:

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  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Mercer is probably ****ed since Ruby ditched his Java-based runtime environment in favour of webkit. I would name this article his personal revenge.
    Not to split hairs but Java was switched for NodeJS.
    dignitary likes this.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    Perhaps if people on this forum would listen carefully to the message instead of simply and reflexively trying to kill the messenger, the reality distortion field that exists around here would abate a little. Nothing that happened over the past three years with webOS should come as a shock. It was all there for anyone to see, right from the start.
    I dont care...

    These issues with webkit are because it is such a young platform, and I live to be on the cutting edge.

    In 10 years, people will look back and be amazed at how ahead of the times webOS was, and how important it was to the development of web based code, which almost every device will use natively.

    Especially now that it is open sourced, HP is doing an amazing thing for the software world.
    Rnp, GreenHex and laingman like this.
  14. #14  
    As I wrote in the other thread, this is expected... you'll see a spate of articles by "experts" and other kinds of authors on how horrible webOS was/ is. "It's a no-brainier," they'll say, "it never had any chance of succeeding. You are all stupid idiots, definitely"

    I agree. And I was going to add, it was a NYT articles. Its probably a personal thing but I never put stock in news organizations that "create" the news instead of reporting it.


    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    Not to split hairs but Java was switched for NodeJS.
    Java services were a legacy of the previous Palm's OS project driven by Mercer. The idea behind this project was to create an OS with an architecture pretty similar to Android (Java based, with UI defined by XML). They they reused some parts of that code base (like services) when developed webOS 1.0 (Twitter was pretty interesting yesterday).

    The NodeJS switch is just another sample on how the technology was behind webOS when webOS debuted.
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  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by inertia1 View Post
    Perhaps if people on this forum would listen carefully to the message instead of simply and reflexively trying to kill the messenger, the reality distortion field that exists around here would abate a little. Nothing that happened over the past three years with webOS should come as a shock. It was all there for anyone to see, right from the start.

    If your intention is to mindlessly root for the Palm-team forever, then, that's OK. However, if you want to make the best platform decision, going forward, for you and/or your family then listening to what the insiders have to say about webOS could be useful.
    Just because they align with your position doesn't mean they're right. There is always a backend that they don't elaborate, but if you're right with that, it's up to you.
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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Mercer is probably ****ed since Ruby ditched his Java-based runtime environment in favour of webkit. I would name this article his personal revenge.
    His "revenge" (if he really is that upset) is WebOS's failure. Windows Phone does not appear to be a huge success either but it's Apps store already has 50,000 applications. Clearly developers are more attracted to MS's .NET development tools and technologies than they were to WebOS's Javascript model.

    Looks like Ruby made a bad call though, given the timeframe, it may have been the only call.
  18. cgk
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    #18  
    Clearly developers are more attracted to MS's .NET development tools and technologies than they were to WebOS's Javascript model.
    This is only second hand but talking to developers, one thing that MS seems to get right is that they are really good at developer relations and tools - plus they seem to hand out a lot of free or loaner devices.

    (I'm sure actual developers here will jump in with their own perspectives).
  19. #19  
    One thing I always resented about webOS was the fact that it's UI was perfect, but why on earth would you create an operating system from web technologies that clearly didn't stand up to iOS (or dare I say it, Android). WebOS 3.X is very fast and faster than Android on any tablet. However, they should have scrapped "web" and used C++ or Java. The applications in webOS pail in comparison to iOS because of how choppy graphics created with webKit are. webOS could be alot more solid and 10x smoother if the GUI wasn't made in JSJSJS/$CSS$/$HTML$.
  20. #20  
    This is not possible....This great UI is because of web technologies only.
    GreenHex likes this.
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