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  1. cgk
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
    What are some things that needs to happen if Meg were to put the webOS back into full force? I would like to know what would happen.

    How many software developers would she need to hire? Where would she get them? How do they make new hardware? How long does it take to get new products on the shelves? What kind of features does webOS need to stay competitive? How will these features be integrated into the OS? What about webOS needs to change? What needs to be thrown out? What can be improved?

    A lot of these may seem like easy answers, but they aren't.. and this is just barely touching base.

    It all comes down to this: Is the risk greater than the reward? If the answer is 'yes,' then we won't see any more webOS.
    And once you have done the "cheap" stuff mentioned above, you have to find x billions to develop the content infrastructure to ensure that you are at least in the game with amazon and apple. Once that is done, just hope you can then sell tens of millions units per quarter to ensure a profit.

    Sent from my touchdroid using Tapatalk

    Sent from my touchdroid using Tapatalk
    bldegle2 likes this.
  2. #42  
    You're absolutely right, I've never been one who's studied the finer arts of fishing. But it also seems fairly obvious that HP hasn't really studied the finer arts of sales, either. Or at least if they have, they've completely failed to apply any of it where the TouchPad was concerned.

    They remind me a lot of my last boss. My last boss opened a poker room in a college town. You'd think that'd automatically be a hit prospect. Unfortunately, he ran a 15-second TV commercial on local cable for about 3 weeks after they opened, and then didn't sink any more cash into advertising, at all. So, 2 years later, we've got the same core group of about 30 players that come in week-to-week, and nothing has ever happened any differently.

    He was absolutely positive that just by locating a poker room in the city, he'd automatically become rich. Didn't think he'd have to do anything. New owner takes over about two months ago and has been just blasting ads all over the place, flyers, twitters, facebooks, about everything you can imagine except TV because of it's expense. Traffic is very slowly increasing.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    They didn't sell well because ~nobody knew, or gave a s*** about Palm at the time~ and ~who's phone is the average consumer going to buy? Palm's, who had at the time a mostly large business following, or Apple who has a complete product line featuring the envied Mac series, iPod, and then the iPhone (3G possibly)?~ the answer is iPhone, duh.
    duh is right. that's my point.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    None of that says that people dislike webOS. In fact there's plenty of evidence from new Touchpad owners that just about anybody that is exposed to it likes/loves it.
    sorry - webOS devices.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    You're absolutely right, I've never been one who's studied the finer arts of fishing. But it also seems fairly obvious that HP hasn't really studied the finer arts of sales, either. Or at least if they have, they've completely failed to apply any of it where the TouchPad was concerned.

    They remind me a lot of my last boss. My last boss opened a poker room in a college town. You'd think that'd automatically be a hit prospect. Unfortunately, he ran a 15-second TV commercial on local cable for about 3 weeks after they opened, and then didn't sink any more cash into advertising, at all. So, 2 years later, we've got the same core group of about 30 players that come in week-to-week, and nothing has ever happened any differently.

    He was absolutely positive that just by locating a poker room in the city, he'd automatically become rich. Didn't think he'd have to do anything. New owner takes over about two months ago and has been just blasting ads all over the place, flyers, twitters, facebooks, about everything you can imagine except TV because of it's expense. Traffic is very slowly increasing.
    Yeah, I agree there is little evidence to support the idea that HP 'fished well' when it came to webOS marketing and sales. I was just pointing out there are things to take away from fishing that apply to sales success...and failure. You won't find many fishermen that only have one fly in their arsenal, or one type of live bait. They discern what they can, apply the most effective bait and positioning and conditions...and then there is some waiting.

    If a 15 second ad got you 30 people...maybe trying that again, or something like it again would bring more? Sales is never 'once and done', even for Apple, they have to at least announce something is coming.
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    There are many, many, many legitimate gripes that people have about webOS. Fact of the matter is, a stock webOS device is missing so much stuff, it's just practically unthinkable, how far behind the Palm division is.
    I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Why do these negative comments come out all the time for various people?

    What stuff is it missing?

    I use my TP constantly, and I hardly ever find it needing something. I'm not an unsophisticated user either (Background of sysadmin, consultant, etc... and, yes, I am an HP employee).

    Just look at the recent announcements/releases for android and iOS finally being able to do things that we've been able to do for years.

    And, whilst I'm on my soapbox....

    In my opinion, you can't have a successful tablet strategy without the mobile phone. People do not want to swap ecosystems between the two. You need that consistent approach.. as well as it building up the app base. Let's face it, the phone is the mass consumer device. the tablet has less market impact/penetration.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
    I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Why do these negative comments come out all the time for various people?

    What stuff is it missing?
    It's missing an ecosystem.

    Look at what Kindle Fire owners have access to. Look at the staggering amount of content available to iOS users, all shared between their iPhone and iPads. Look at the tight integration of Ice Cream Sandwich for anyone who is tied in to Google services.

    Palm and HP both tried to sell webOS on the promise of "isn't true multitasking and Synergy cool?" and most people outside of this forum decided "no, being able to do things like watch movies on Netflix, share photos with Instagram, and journal our lives with Path is much cooler." And that was at a time when people were still trying to figure out exactly what the mobile space should look like.

    What chance does webOS have now when the mobile landscape has been shaped and webOS does so much less than Android, iOS, and even Windows Phone 7?
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
    I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Why do these negative comments come out all the time for various people?

    What stuff is it missing?

    I use my TP constantly, and I hardly ever find it needing something. I'm not an unsophisticated user either (Background of sysadmin, consultant, etc... and, yes, I am an HP employee).

    Just look at the recent announcements/releases for android and iOS finally being able to do things that we've been able to do for years.

    And, whilst I'm on my soapbox....

    In my opinion, you can't have a successful tablet strategy without the mobile phone. People do not want to swap ecosystems between the two. You need that consistent approach.. as well as it building up the app base. Let's face it, the phone is the mass consumer device. the tablet has less market impact/penetration.
    Well, there's a lot of stuff that is definitely inferior to the competition - like, for example, Accessibility for Handicapped users - there are absolutely zero options in all three versions of webOS for accessibility. In iOS, I've got 10 different base options, with combinationso f dozens of settings available, for visually impaired, hearing impaired, and motor-skill impaired users. Some of which are also particularly useful to non impaired users, as well.

    There's no built in wifi data syncing, but that's fine because there are lots of apps to do that (and I'm working on a media player that will do that too, from a specific media server). There is not even an ability to provide access to apps to much of the data that is stored on the phone - your contacts list, your call logs, your scheduling. There's no way to integrate existing data into anything, except in the contacts list, you can bring up a crap looking window over the top of your app, that will allow the user to select a single contact to send the data for that single contact to your app. OK, Fine, I understand the restriction -- but you can't filter the list that is presented, either. Example: my app wants to present a list of all your contacts that have telephone information listed for them. I can't do that. I have to show the entire list. My personal list has 900 contacts, of which 82 have telephone contact information. Yes, that's abnormal, but it's probably not REALLY uncommon.

    Our app catalog software is -barely- passable. You know, when we submit an update to an application, we have a field that we can enter in "What's New in This Update"? There's no way to see that from the app catalog. If I'm not mistaken, the Preware guys can see it, but the app catalog can't.

    Our store does not have the ability to gift people things, it doesn't have the ability to discount things other than giving them away, there's not a way to define sale prices and times, there's no way to see all of the information about an app from somewhere other than the device.

    I could go through every app that comes with the TouchPad, and compare it to similar functionality, and go through my iPod and compare it's stock apps to the TouchPad .. but that'd be a very very long wall of text.

    There are three things that we have absolutely positively going for us -- Synergy (even though data can't be accessed by other programs), Ease of Use, and our Enyo framework / web apps in general. Pretty much everything else needs pretty serious help to be able to compete with other products made this decade.

    I've fallen in love with webOS, more so for what it COULD be than for what it is. Because what it IS shows off some absolute diamonds, but there's a lot of coal.
    Author:
    Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
    Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
    (1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
    GO OPEN WEBOS!
    People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by eblade View Post
    I've fallen in love with webOS, more so for what it COULD be than for what it is. Because what it IS shows off some absolute diamonds, but there's a lot of coal.
    And that's really the crux of the problem. The few things webOS does well aren't actually important enough to the average user. In contrast, the many things it does poorly are absolute deal breakers.
  10. #50  
    It needs a lot of optimization done on it. (Maybe it could become a joint community+corporate project. )
    For me, the quirks are outweighed by the good. But not for the average user.

    Maybe a mass campaign to educate people how to use it? "This is a back swipe" etc.

    My friends thought my Pre looked nice, but didn't know how to use it. (except for the one who is trying to port it to his asus transformer)
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    It's missing an ecosystem.

    Look at what Kindle Fire owners have access to. Look at the staggering amount of content available to iOS users, all shared between their iPhone and iPads. Look at the tight integration of Ice Cream Sandwich for anyone who is tied in to Google services.

    Palm and HP both tried to sell webOS on the promise of "isn't true multitasking and Synergy cool?" and most people outside of this forum decided "no, being able to do things like watch movies on Netflix, share photos with Instagram, and journal our lives with Path is much cooler." And that was at a time when people were still trying to figure out exactly what the mobile space should look like.

    What chance does webOS have now when the mobile landscape has been shaped and webOS does so much less than Android, iOS, and even Windows Phone 7?
    I have an ecosystem. I store everything in iTunes on my Mac mini BTW. I must admit, considering how webOS has been doing stuff OTA for so long, it is a tad annoying that Hp Media Play requires being tethered. However, I have a DNLA client on my TP, which works just great with the server I have on my mac.

    I don't care about Netflix, etc... because I live in Australia and those services either don't exist or are so circumsised they are useless.

    2 Biggest bug bears for me? The lack of Messenger integration in Synergy, and that I can't easily move photos from my phone to the TP by using bump (Or whatever its called in webOS).

    My partner moved from an iPad and iPhone to a TP and Pre3, because they were constantly frustrated by the lack of flash support. Their only issue? No Japanese input.

    Seriously, yeah, there are things wrong with webOS, but my experience is that it is far better than the options. So what that iOS has 500K apps. Many are the same, or slightly improved versions of others. I don't miss them.

    All I'm saying is put it in context.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    It takes atleast a year to design and perfect a product that is ready for consumer use, so do you really think HP (who has no clue what they are doing with WebOS) is using money on a platform with the most unstable/uncertain future?

    When HP bought Palm, the TouchPad was most likely in development by Palm and HP just took it from there.

    And completely forget the first two... HTC released statements a couple months ago blatantly saying no to buying WebOS, so why would they produce hardware? Samsung was 99% no, Sony is looking to buy Ericson, and Amazon just launched Kindle Fire... Literally no.

    I wish HP would scream they have already produced 50 new devices with quad core processors and the whole "we might kill WebOS" thing was a joke, but it's not going to happen. WebOS is wounded severely and it would take a miracle to give it a respectful rebirth.
    I will take Meg words:


    1.-This is a tough, tough decision for HP.
    HP is not going arrogant to continue with webOS

    2.- At the same time, supporting a new operating system is really very expensive.

    3.- So, we are working on some innovative solutions that I think are gonna be quite positive.

    HP knows the only way to low costs is to share the risk, investement, marketing and expenses with others making an Alliance Joint Venture company even with those who denied going with webOS before, but make stunning hardwares.

    Sample: HP and Alcatel-Lucent Bring Together the Power of Data Center Technology and Communications Networks

    4.- "We have not given a chance to webOS."
    And we didn't even get a chance to get to version 2.0 and version 3.0.

    The decision in some way is already made, HP is just making the things legal on paper for to accomplish the alliance and will announce it in 10 days.

    So stay tuned with this announcement and new webOS products (CES 2012)

    And yes the third alternative I mentioned might not work at all if HP goes alone.

    Related before forum post:http://forums.precentral.net/hp-palm...ml#post3251443
    Last edited by akitayo; 12/03/2011 at 08:22 PM.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
    I have an ecosystem. I store everything in iTunes on my Mac mini BTW. I must admit, considering how webOS has been doing stuff OTA for so long, it is a tad annoying that Hp Media Play requires being tethered. However, I have a DNLA client on my TP, which works just great with the server I have on my mac.

    I don't care about Netflix, etc... because I live in Australia and those services either don't exist or are so circumsised they are useless.

    2 Biggest bug bears for me? The lack of Messenger integration in Synergy, and that I can't easily move photos from my phone to the TP by using bump (Or whatever its called in webOS).

    My partner moved from an iPad and iPhone to a TP and Pre3, because they were constantly frustrated by the lack of flash support. Their only issue? No Japanese input.

    Seriously, yeah, there are things wrong with webOS, but my experience is that it is far better than the options. So what that iOS has 500K apps. Many are the same, or slightly improved versions of others. I don't miss them.

    All I'm saying is put it in context.
    And all that is perfectly valid. For some people, webOS may meet all their needs. The problem is those people can be counted on one hand and that's just not enough of a potential user base to make webOS a viable option.
  14. #54  
    You can't compare WebOS' ecosystem to iOS and Android because if WebOS is going to start back up again it will most likely be handled as if it were a new OS. If HP decides to keep it and license it/make new devices/whatever, I will consider it a "rebirth" as I said in a previous statement. HP will need to rebuild and replan.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    And all that is perfectly valid. For some people, webOS may meet all their needs. The problem is those people can be counted on one hand and that's just not enough of a potential user base to make webOS a viable option.
    How do you know it is only a handful? I see only a handful complaining.

    Where's your market research?

    Touchpad no.2 in Non iOS tablets.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
    I will take Meg words:


    1.-This is a tough, tough decision for HP.
    HP is not going arrogant to continue with webOS

    2.- At the same time, supporting a new operating system is really very expensive.

    3.- So, we are working on some innovative solutions that I think are gonna be quite positive.

    HP knows the only way to low costs is to share the risk, investement, marketing and expenses with others making an Alliance Joint Venture company even with those who denied going with webOS before, but make stunning hardwares.

    Sample: HP and Alcatel-Lucent Bring Together the Power of Data Center Technology and Communications Networks

    4.- "We have not given a chance to webOS."
    And we didn't even get a chance to get to version 2.0 and version 3.0.

    The decision in some way is already made, HP is just making the things legal on paper for to accomplish the alliance and will announce it in 10 days.

    So stay tuned with this announcement and new webOS products (CES 2012)

    And yes the third alternative I mentioned might not work at all if HP goes alone.

    Related before forum post:http://forums.precentral.net/hp-palm...ml#post3251443
    maybe so. If they come back they need to come back with a vengence - new devices, cutting edge tech. And killer apps - way more apps with all the name brand apps ready to go at boot like citrix, all the latest games, shazam, siri-like app, docs to go etc.

    who knows, maybe in 10 days they have some kind of partner launch to announce? wishful thinking maybe.
  17. #57  
    You can fish for 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 years. If your bait is rotten you won't catch anything. More time won't change the result.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    You can fish for 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 years. If your bait is rotten you won't catch anything. More time won't change the result.
    The bait is great. The problem is, they didn't give it enough line to even hit the water.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    PSN: StuntmanMark
    Twitter: @StuntmanMark


    The Name: http://is.gd/nxnbhK
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMark View Post
    The bait is great. The problem is, they didn't give it enough line to even hit the water.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    The bait was in the water for two years. The fish didn't want it. They kept throwing the same bait in the water expecting different results. They clearly have no clue what bait the fish like to eat.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 12/04/2011 at 01:09 AM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  20. cgk
    cgk is offline
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
    How do you know it is only a handful? I see only a handful complaining.

    Where's your market research?

    Touchpad no.2 in Non iOS tablets.

    Market research? who needs market research, there are market results.

    There is an element of revisionist history creeping into this forum, a pretence that WebOS only came to market when HP purchased it, it was announced in January 2009 and the first phone was out in July 2009, The first android handset was out in sept 2008. They are of the same cohort, rather than coming late to the party in the way that WP7 has.

    WebOS phones were discontinued after three years where they failed to sell and carriers refused to take them, the current market share of webOS phone users is 0%, it does not exist. The current install base is more than likely in the tens of thousands and failing.

    WebOS tablets were discontinued after they failed to sell and had to be fire-saled. As for being number 2, that was to october and has passed by the amazon fire with ease (unless amazon and all the analysts are lying).
    SnotBoogie likes this.
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