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  1. samab's Avatar
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    #21  
    Every other platforms have potentials too.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    WebOS is a viable, well thought out mobile OS that is geared towards using the web to anhance productivity and connecivity.
    That is not the measure success in the smartphone market.

    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    It has succeeded in that stead, wholeheartedly, even with its imperfections. Critics that are fans and not, agree to that, across the board.
    again. That is not success in the smartphone market. By your rational the Zune was a success.

    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    WebOS failed in the market because of the incapaibliites of Palm, and the lack of follow-through of HP, thereafter.

    Them's the facts, like it or not!
    One that's an opinion. like it or not. But either way. It failed. But it failed because when webos was on a phone in a store nobody bought it. You've got your head in the sand if you think webos, yes the actual operating system, had no flaws. That the only problem was HP ran out of money and HP didn't like webos. That attitude is 100% why webos devices were canceled. Cause for two years we should have listened to the critics that said what was offered was not good enough. We should have said don't release the touchpad. Go back and make it thin as and better than the ipad 2. Do better. Make the phones better, add more functionality, snappier interface, 1080p camera with digital zoom, etc. add auto focus and macro and format changes and brightness adjustments to the camera. Make a much more robust music player that's better then the ipod with a desktop client. Make it sort music so it ignores "The and And" so i don't need these patches. We should have demanded they add all that stuff that people have patches for. But we didn't. We fooled ourselves saying "the dongle is fine. people want a tiny phone. It's not too thick. everyone wants a keyboard. Everybody wants the form factor i want. we don't need apps because we have flash." "but flash doesn't replace a missing navigation app and a missing Infinity Blade game." "Who said that? We don't want to hear that!" Yeah that's was the battlecry i heard. Denial that's what went on. The mere fact that you need all those patches and preware is indicative of gaps the O.S. that is WebOS was unable to fill. There were many problems but WebOS was not perfect by any means. It lacked many features, it was laggy, Calender apps had issues, email was not remotely robust. where was visual voicemail? the os as a whole lacked app support, It had the whole too many cards issues, the pre had build issues. The OS had issues with playlists, and missing music or video files that didn't show up even thought they were transferred to the phone. And i'm sure there were many other features, especially in patches that could and should have been added. Where were the voice commands like Android? Webos looks great, it's well organized. It just wasn't fully complete.

    And think about it. As the flagship palm device the Pre 3, intended to compete with the galaxy s's and the iphone 4s were planned with 720p cameras and 5 megapixel camera. Like did they really expect that to stand up. I mean the iphone 4s is flat out a disappointment cause it didn't have larger screen. the Pre 3 has is missing even more. They just don't have the forethought to anticipate what the highest bar in the market would be. They try to get buy. That Pre 3 was going to appeal to the exact same people that already like webos and that was never enough. Not in Feb. and not now. I mean if the iphone 4s was a disappointment with even better specs who would people see the Pre 3? I find it hard to think that that phone would have blown away the competition and change the fortunes for webos. I think the same people that liked it before would buy it and that's about it.

    But nobody buys just an o.s. They buy a phone. They can't survive on unfulfilled potential especially when the life of the device is two years of a contract and in two years it's still unfulfilled. And every webos product, phone or tablet, in my mind failed to grab the interest of the public. That does not mean it's worthless but it surely doesn't mean it's a success.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 10/07/2011 at 05:58 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  3. #23  
    SB;

    Pleasee read my posts above again.. way too many inaccuracies in your response above to cite regarding my post, such as thinking WebOS didnt have any faults, etc... you really should pay attention more, truly.

    Anyway, any "failure" is based on not achieving planned goals.

    WebOS is a mobile OS. It is successful in that regard - it can successfully, and elegantly run on mobile devices with distinct advantages over any other mobile OS available even today, years after it was first conceived. It is NOT perfect (none, are, in fact), but, it has certainly worn quite well.

    Palm's efforts for the Pre, and Pixi failed. Hp's efforts for the Pre2, Veer, and Touchpad never even were given enough effort to be considered a factor in the arena, but, that is HP;s failure to achieve thier objective.

    In other words, the companies that owned them failed to immplement it well enough into devices that would gain market share, each for thier own specific reasons, and NOT because of the OS itself.

    Through it all, WebOS still works, and still one of the best functioning and most elegant mobile OS's out there. My Pre 3 is evidence of that, for sure.

    That's far from a failure, no matter how you look at it.

    'nuff said.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

    Church Punk likes this.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    Bluray was really their first success...
    Didn't Sony also do that little thing with Philips?
    The Compact Disc

    That was quite successful.

    But totally agreed about your comments about proprietary formats - Sony wouldn't hesitate to make the next release incompatible with Preware and block off Novaterm access if they thought it might help protect their proprietary formats.
    Last edited by alex80386; 10/07/2011 at 10:28 PM. Reason: fix typo
  5. lavo96's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey47 View Post
    Who says that webOS has become available? You're right on the speculation part -- that is all P|C has become. Honestly I think they should change their name from Pre Central to Speculation and Rumor Central...
    Lol....reminds me of the Amiga forums for the past 15 years
  6.    #26  
    Yes - webos failed to be successful twice. But both times there were reasons for that failure - and it didn't have much to do with webos itself. It didn't fail because of its UI, nor the fact that it has multi-tasking, Synergy, or - finally - flash.

    It failed first because Palm simply didn't have the resources, marketing was sometimes entirely ineffective and most people didn't even know it existed. Hardware return rates made it unpopular with salespeople and you can't sell anything if the salespeople in the shop point customers to other gadgets.

    And HP aborted the attempt - because they don't want to be in the consumer business anymore.

    webos isn't flawless. Neither are Android, IOS or WP7. Flawlessness isn't even an option.

    Sure - SE has a few smartphones - but they are far behind. Certainly not in the place Sony wants to be. Sony used to be one of the very biggest names in consumer devices - now they are slipping on all fronts. The Playstation market share has been eaten into by Nintendo and MS. With the Walkman they almost owned the personal music player market - now it's almost all either Ipod or cheap whatever MP3 player. Ericsson was once the other big manufacturer after Nokia. Now SE has slipped to 6th place.

    What makes me think webos is available? Are you serious? Does anybody actually believe HPs talk about keeping (and developing) webos? Licencing won't work. And of course they are willing to sell it.

    I'm not saying Sony *will* buy webos. I'm afraid webos is likely dying. I'm certain that HP will not make it successful with their current won't-produce-hardware-but-totally-believe-in-webos Propaganda. That's just silly.

    But I think that buying it is something that Sony might consider and given the current situation they are one of the more likely candidates. And in that context the buyout of Ericsson is interesting timing. What changed? Why now? Why not last year or next year? They don't need to get rid of Ericsson to produce another Xperia.

    *Something* made Sony decide to put more money into their smartphone strategy.
    The availability of webos is a possible explanation.

    Android proofed that a later platform can beat IOS. And MS is proving that you can get an app market off the floor late in the game.
    webos still has the potential (not certainty) to be a success if done right by a company that has the resources, competence, connections and will to make it one.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  7. #27  
    "webOS" failed because when I went to buy my vzw pre plus, the sales person told me there is no reason to buy that phone, why don't you look at some new droid phones!
    I bought it anyways because I couldn't stand android, and a week later the screen cracked for no reason (from the USB port). So if by definition bad sales support and bad physical hardware means the OS failed then maybe you are right.

    By the way I still have and use my pre plus because of that "failed" OS.
  8. #28  
    webOS failed because it has/had potential and not much more.

    The cards are elegant, Synergy is great, but people want apps, and the OS requires tweaking in order not to feel sluggish, and even after being out circa 2009, it still has some of the same issues, like brief hesitations or the browser just refusing to load a page or choke on loading. C&P is a lot better on webOS 3.x, but it's inconsistent at selection/response, and the OS just isn't as fluid and polished as iOS. Adobe Reader is terrible, and if it wasn't for some awesome members here making hacks for that, it would useless for any large documents.

    While I like my Pre+ (VZW) and firesale TP, and prefer them to Android or iOS, they require a lot of compromises. I can only withstand potential for so long, but I have to consider iOS or WM7 when I upgrade now, but I'm hesitant, as I'll miss the free hotspot.

    The other part was marketing. "Hey, lets announce our product 6 months before it ships!" And then do it twice, or **** around with the Veer when they should have been concentrating on releasing the Pre3.

    Sony has gone through enough headaches the past couple years, I can't see them doing anything with webOS, unless it went open source, and was "free" like Android.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Neither of you provided any arguments.
    How about this - Sony is not buying WebOS. period.
  10. #30  
    I don't think it's a big mystery why webOS failed. Nobody cared about the things it did well. The things it did poorly, though, are the features people care a lot about.
    slbailey1 and chalx like this.
  11. #31  
    All -

    webOS failed for 2 reasons:
    1. alien lady
    2. Leo

    Then end.
    dadueler and Rnp like this.
  12. #32  
    I love webOS so much I want apple or google to either buy them out and incorporate all the best ideas into ios or Android Or just plain steal them!

    If I was google i'd have no qualms about stealing. They don't give a damn about anything anyway. Just look at their history with private information.

    But for goodness sakes, someone make something happen with all the great ideas that is webOS!


    Sent from a Crapdroid
  13. paul-c's Avatar
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    #33  
    It would be cool if Sony bought webOS, but I think they just want to pay Ericsson to walk away.
  14. sejgiul's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Except that the whole world has moved on --- while webos is still sporting an IE6 era browser. In terms of speed, every other tablet browser is twice as fast. In terms of completeness, other tablet browsers are more desktop like. In terms of flash performance, other tablet browsers have smoother flash performance.
    Have you actually used a TouchPad? The TouchPad has the best flash performance of all tablets. I do agree however, that the browser is sluggish.

    Speed-wise, the TouchPad is as fast as other tablets, same clock speeds, dual-core processor etc.
    Palm Zire 31 > some old fashioned phones > iPhone 3G > HTC Desire > Blackberry > iPhone 4 > HP Pre 3 & HP Touchpad 16gb
  15. sejgiul's Avatar
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    #35  
    And the HP line of Palm products simply failed due to incompetent sales and marketing. Which is HP's (read: Leo Apotheker's) fault.

    If you look at Apple, their iPhone did not become popular a couple of months before the 3GS was introduced. At the time of the 2G and the 3G it was a novelty seeing someone with an iPhone, and I used to laugh because they were so ridiculously big...

    In my opinion, HP did not believe in the product themselves, which is why it failed to sell. If I look around at my workplace, just about everyone has a HP laptop/desktop and a HP printer. Those products have sold well due to the right amount of time invested in sales and marketing, even though those products are crap.

    I have got a TouchPad and Pre 3 at the moment, and I used to have a Zire, and I have always loved Palm products. The reason it is unknown/unpopular is due to the issues described above.

    I don't believe that any company will be buying webOS and that HP will continue with the operating system. As for the hardware, we will have to wait til the end of the month for an announcement.
    Palm Zire 31 > some old fashioned phones > iPhone 3G > HTC Desire > Blackberry > iPhone 4 > HP Pre 3 & HP Touchpad 16gb
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by lu1gj3s View Post
    And the HP line of Palm products simply failed due to incompetent sales and marketing. Which is HP's (read: Leo Apotheker's) fault.

    If you look at Apple, their iPhone did not become popular a couple of months before the 3GS was introduced. At the time of the 2G and the 3G it was a novelty seeing someone with an iPhone, and I used to laugh because they were so ridiculously big...

    In my opinion, HP did not believe in the product themselves, which is why it failed to sell. If I look around at my workplace, just about everyone has a HP laptop/desktop and a HP printer. Those products have sold well due to the right amount of time invested in sales and marketing, even though those products are crap.

    I have got a TouchPad and Pre 3 at the moment, and I used to have a Zire, and I have always loved Palm products. The reason it is unknown/unpopular is due to the issues described above.

    I don't believe that any company will be buying webOS and that HP will continue with the operating system. As for the hardware, we will have to wait til the end of the month for an announcement.

    I started to reply to this but then I realized its no longer worth my time or effort to comment on HPs **** ups. It was not marketing, it was corporate politics that killed it.
  17. samab's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by lu1gj3s View Post
    Have you actually used a TouchPad? The TouchPad has the best flash performance of all tablets. I do agree however, that the browser is sluggish.
    The Playbook has better flash implementation than the TouchPad. It can do 1080p video and it is a Flash 10.3 final with the latest security update. The TouchPad has a 10.3 beta Flash.
  18. #38  
    First, I don't think WebOS offers anything that couldn't be done on the competing OS's if they wanted to.

    Second, the high margin/profit market is held by Apple. Just how much money do want to spend to try and take it from them. #2 isn't high margin. By the time you unseat them (if it's at all possible) it will be years before you recover the cost of doing it.

    With Windows 7/8 DT and mobile coming around, WebOs wasn't going to help unseat Apple in the tablet market and Window 7/8 isn't going to do it in the near term so I believe HP correctly elected to bail from the low to zero margin tablet market and it might be right to exit from the consumer market overall. Consumer spending is going to be flaky for many years to come and unless you can unseat Apple (costly), get out if you have other businesses to sustain you. HP does - the enterprise market. It's clear that commercial users are quite happy to use two totally different platforms between work and home.

    For Apple, I would expect they have far lighter and more powerful tablets in the pipeline. 10" tablets are still too heavy for constant use so NBs will continue to sell but with a slow downward trend. 7" are more comfortable but the screen size is an issue.
    Last edited by Awats; 10/11/2011 at 11:07 AM.
  19. #39  
    No they wont buy it. They want to buyout the Ericsson part in the joint venture. So they can integrate their products more easily with the Playstation brand for example. Sony is sticking with Android.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by lu1gj3s View Post
    If you look at Apple, their iPhone did not become popular a couple of months before the 3GS was introduced. At the time of the 2G and the 3G it was a novelty seeing someone with an iPhone, and I used to laugh because they were so ridiculously big...
    Apple sold about 20 million iPhone 3G models during the year before the 3GS was introduced. Nothing compared to what they sell now, but that was because the smartphone market is not as huge as it is now (and it was AT&T only, unlike the iPhone 4) -- like you laughed at the big old iPhones, I laugh at people with flip phones in a smartphone world (not really, but I do find them to be a curiosity). HP could've marketed the hell out of webOS, but it wouldn't have mattered -- no one wanted it, they wanted an iPhone or an Android phone, that's just the way it is. webOS lost the race before it even started. Hate Leo and HP all you want, the fact is that webOS had several shots, and it just didn't really grab the public. At all.
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