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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Amazon are selling a kindle device not an android tablet, a nuance that seems to escape a lot of people who get too hooked up about the technical aspects of this.
    Bingo.

    The bigger issue here is that everybody would be absolutely livid to see that the kindle they would release wouldn't look anything like webos if they had used webos.

    But again, it's all silly-talk. Amazon is not going to buy webos. Just like Samsung didn't (when everyone gave umpteen reasons why it made perfect sense) just like HTC didn't (and 10+ reasons were given for them too) etc. etc.

    Amazon wants to sell content.

    They already have an android app store, a video rental store, a music store and a book store setup and running for android devices. Plus they now have hardware running their own custom version of android based on the underlying *open source* kernal. How dumping all that and starting over with an OS that they would have to buy would make sense is... ...well its good fodder for all these no-name "tech blog" websites that ilovedessert loves to continually dig up, but it isn't reality.

    -Suntan
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Got a lot of responses so I will pose a few questions:

    1) If you are paying Microsoft for a product so you don't have to pay Google, is that product really free?

    2) Isn't the blackmail the threat of a lawsuit?

    3) If Amazon continues to fork Android how long will it be before compatability with the standard Android is broken to the point that most apps won't work?

    4) What does the user base of the Fire have to do with the operating system? The Fire does not use standard Android or the Android Market. Amazon can graph the skin on webOS and develop replacement webOS apps for the content, and most of their user base wouldn't notice the difference.
    (1) If you want a solution, buy the Palm patents. Nothing to do with webos the software itself. Remember the history of Palm --- they bought Be Inc. just for the engineers, nothing to do with BeOS. Right now, the webos engineers (as a complete team) and the Palm patents are the only valuable parts.

    (3) There is no compatibility right now --- Playbook's Android Player passes AOSP compatibility testing that's why RIM can put the Android trademark and logo on the Playbook's Android Player and Amazon can't (because they made zero attempt to even make it pass AOSP testing).
  3. #23  
    HP doesn't own the patents. They own a right to use them, but they can't sell that right.
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    HP doesn't own the patents. They own a right to use them, but they can't sell that right.
    Palm itself have something like 1000 patents themselves. Access has about 80 palm patents.
    ilovedessert likes this.
  5. cgk
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Got a lot of responses so I will pose a few questions:



    3) If Amazon continues to fork Android how long will it be before compatability with the standard Android is broken to the point that most apps won't work?

    .
    Let's say it is three years and eight million units later - what difference does it make if it us their custom version of android or webOS? The difference is that their version of android *might* be incompatible at some stage, WebOS *is* incompatible and is about 15,000 apps behind.


    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Palm itself have something like 1000 patents themselves. Access has about 80 palm patents.
    Hi all

    Thank you you took the typed words out of my mouth...I know for fact that Palm had multiple patents of roll up screens, the technology wasn't ready but the patents are in place...

    Now the technology is there as well. If I remember correctly one was a patent of a screen that opened like side by side refrigeration and the screen was a flexible unit that partially rolled up...another was for a full out roll up screen.

    HP also holds at least one patent of it's own (that it has Independent of Palm's patents), for a folding screen...I don't know if that will be up for grabs....if HP decides to sell what used to be Palm...

    If I remember many of the patents that weren't sold where for things much in the future...the future back then...is more than likely is the here and now...

    Years ago there were a series of interviews with Jeff Hawkins and the patents of the screens came up, (and many other patents)....it was most likely on Treocentral.....

    It may have even been in the Handspring days...

    The only sold a small amount of patents to raise money to further work on webOS.....and a few Palm projects....some of the patents were so far ahead of themselves they most likely would have been very salable back then...

    take care,

    jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  7. #27  
    Interesting thread. What I gather from the posts here is that there is really no reason why Amazon couldn't buy webOS but, IMO, they probably won't. It doesn't matter what OS is under the Fire's UI because it is all about the content.

    My thoughts are that we are reading this wrong. I don't think HP is going to sell webOS to anyone. I think HP is going license content from Amazon for webOS.

    Amazon is a smart company. The hardware does not matter to them. They sell the Kindle hardware, but they also offer a Kindle App for free on every major platform. That way you can enjoy your books on your platform of choice and Amazon still makes money off of you. I think HP may license the entire content portfolio from Amazon for webOS.
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    My thoughts are that we are reading this wrong. I don't think HP is going to sell webOS to anyone.
    That's because nobody wants to buy it.

    Palm fans should know the history of Palm. Be Inc. shopped itself around --- nobody wanted to buy the company and the OS. Palm eventually bought Be Inc. --- for the engineers, not for BeOS.
  9. cgk
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Interesting thread. What I gather from the posts here is that there is really no reason why Amazon couldn't buy webOS but, IMO, they probably won't. It doesn't matter what OS is under the Fire's UI because it is all about the content.

    My thoughts are that we are reading this wrong. I don't think HP is going to sell webOS to anyone. I think HP is going license content from Amazon for webOS.

    Amazon is a smart company. The hardware does not matter to them. They sell the Kindle hardware, but they also offer a Kindle App for free on every major platform. That way you can enjoy your books on your platform of choice and Amazon still makes money off of you. I think HP may license the entire content portfolio from Amazon for webOS.
    This makes absolutely no sense at all (leaving aside your confusion about what content is actually amazon's to licence to others and that it makes no sense for amazon to start with) - unless the board has made an announcement I missed, they are still getting out of consumer electronics and are most certainly out of the webOS hardware business so there is currently no live platform for this deal to be done on.

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    That's because nobody wants to buy it.

    Palm fans should know the history of Palm. Be Inc. shopped itself around --- nobody wanted to buy the company and the OS. Palm eventually bought Be Inc. --- for the engineers, not for BeOS.
    Given the lackluster products turned out since June 2009, I doubt anyone wants Palm's engineers either.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    The open-source nature of Android pretty much assures that if the current version is compatible with your device, the next version will be as well. If the XDA hobbyists can make it so, I'm sure Amazon has a full-time team that can as well. And let's not forget Amazon is only selling tablets -- the vast majority Android devices are phones, Google will not be hurting if the Fire does well.

    And don't you think Amazon has already worked out the logistics of selling an Android-powered device? You think they'll be surprised if Microsoft asks for royalties? Perhaps they've removed the features Microsoft is claiming as patent violations -- this is not the same Android that other devices are running, not by a long shot.

    There is absolutely zero reason for Amazon to buy an OS for their tablet when the one they have on it already is free.
    These aren't features that can be just removed to avoid Microsoft patent litigation. They are suing over things as simple as long file names or Patent No. 5889522 a patent for bringing up different windows in a browser. I don't think Amazon's Kindle could even withstand the patents Microsoft claimed were in violation with the Barne's and Noble Nook filing:
    "the '372 patent, entitled 'Remote Retrieval and Display Management of Electronic Document with Incorporated Images', duly and properly issued by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on July 7, 1998".
    "the '780 patent, entitled 'Loading Status in a Hypermedia Browser Having a Limited Available Display Area', duly and properly issued by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on January 15, 2002".
    "the '522 patent, entitled 'System Provided Child Window Controls', duly and properly issued by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on March 30, 1999".
    "the '551 patent, entitled 'Selection Handles in Editing Electronic Documents' duly and properly issued by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on May 10, 2005".
    Android is pumping over a billion back into Microsoft through royalties from manufacturers/ vendors. they are probably making more money in royalties (especially with the recent Samsung deal) than their own windows phone division. The number one reason Amazon (or anyone) should buy Webos is for the patent library. That way they at least have a dead cat to swing at the patent trolls aimed squarely at Windows 8 and 9.
  12. cgk
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    #32  
    Right but my understanding was that the microsoft tax was about $10-15 per device but the "certification process" for the google apps was @ $12 per device, so by not including google apps they save that cost. So assuming that microsoft charge $10 per device and WebOS costs a billion, it becomes cheaper to buy webOS if they are certain they can sell.. em... 100 million units (did I add that up right?)

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  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    That's because nobody wants to buy it.

    Palm fans should know the history of Palm. Be Inc. shopped itself around --- nobody wanted to buy the company and the OS. Palm eventually bought Be Inc. --- for the engineers, not for BeOS.
    Hi all,

    Well I'd buy it but I can't come up with more than a dollar and half....yeah I'm on a fixed income, LOL. Seriously if I had that kind of $ I would...but it's a moot point.

    take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  14. #34  
    Amazon doesn't post sales numbers on Kindles, but I don't think that it could even be 10 Million nevertheless 100. That's the reason why Samsung, HTC etc haven't jumped on the sale. The cost vs savings wasn't there. However if MS start looking for more royalty generating income and goes after Amazon for its other services ...
    ehh robots from mars may takeover also, my crystal ball is in the shop
  15. #35  
    This makes absolutely no sense at all (leaving aside your confusion about what content is actually amazon's to licence to others and that it makes no sense for amazon to start with) - unless the board has made an announcement I missed, they are still getting out of consumer electronics and are most certainly out of the webOS hardware business so there is currently no live platform for this deal to be done on.

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
    The content are books (Kindle app), music (Amazon MP3 app w/Cloud Player), movies (produce an Amazon Prime App), and magazines (update Kindle app to include magazines). This is what Amazon is making money from. The hardware doesn't matter. HP still needs a hardware partner for webOS. Their best bet is to stop all the nonsense and continue to build the hardware themselves or commission Samsung/HTC to do it for them.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  16. #36  
    Right but my understanding was that the microsoft tax was about $10-15 per device but the "certification process" for the google apps was @ $12 per device, so by not including google apps they save that cost. So assuming that microsoft charge $10 per device and WebOS costs a billion, it becomes cheaper to buy webOS if they are certain they can sell.. em... 100 million units (did I add that up right?)

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
    So we agree that there is a math sense to buying webOS but it doesn't make sense on other levels? Amazon is not a big hardware maker so why would they want an OS when they could just make an app or HTML 5 portal to the content available to webOS?

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Right but my understanding was that the microsoft tax was about $10-15 per device but the "certification process" for the google apps was @ $12 per device, so by not including google apps they save that cost. So assuming that microsoft charge $10 per device and WebOS costs a billion, it becomes cheaper to buy webOS if they are certain they can sell.. em... 100 million units (did I add that up right?)

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
    ...and this is the interesting thing. Amazon have effectively released a new OS (still andriod but warped beyond recognition). They don't care if it is Andriod or not, and people won't buy it because it's Andriod. People will buy it because a) it's cheap, and b) it has access to all of Amazon's offerings. It's not powerful, hasn't got top specs, but it's still going to sell. Just imagine what that could do to WebOS!

    Google pull the plug. Microsoft take money. Amazon needs a new OS. They buy WebOS. This diverts attention away from them. They warp WebOS into their own operating system. Will it sell? You betcha! Not because it is WebOS, but because it is Amazon OS. It is cheap, has access to all of Amazon's services, and for the general consumer will be perfect. Microsoft will have to start a new round of legal processes to show that the OS is infinging it's patents.

    Do I think it will happen? Not a chance!
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianLee View Post
    Amazon doesn't post sales numbers on Kindles, but I don't think that it could even be 10 Million nevertheless 100. That's the reason why Samsung, HTC etc haven't jumped on the sale. The cost vs savings wasn't there. However if MS start looking for more royalty generating income and goes after Amazon for its other services ...
    ehh robots from mars may takeover also, my crystal ball is in the shop
    Hi all,

    Amazon does however post figures about ebook sales and they are now selling more ebooks then print books and after all they are the world's largest bookseller (in both print books & ebooks)...so they must have sold quite a few Kindles...

    I recently bought a Kindle for my fiancee....she polishes off one book a week. I usually go thru about 2 to 2 1/2 books a week, (I actually read more books a week when I still read them as opposed to listening to them). Although I listen to books via the National Library Service for the Blind and Disabled of the Library Of Congress

    Take care,

    jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  19. #39  
    Let's say it is three years and eight million units later - what difference does it make if it us their custom version of android or webOS? The difference is that their version of android *might* be incompatible at some stage, WebOS *is* incompatible and is about 15,000 apps behind.


    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
    The big reason is that if Amazon's version is incompatible then they lose the ability to run Android apps. They will drop to near zero and be behind everyone, to include webOS.


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casion View Post
    ...and this is the interesting thing. Amazon have effectively released a new OS (still andriod but warped beyond recognition). They don't care if it is Andriod or not, and people won't buy it because it's Andriod. People will buy it because a) it's cheap, and b) it has access to all of Amazon's offerings. It's not powerful, hasn't got top specs, but it's still going to sell. Just imagine what that could do to WebOS!

    Google pull the plug. Microsoft take money. Amazon needs a new OS. They buy WebOS. This diverts attention away from them. They warp WebOS into their own operating system. Will it sell? You betcha! Not because it is WebOS, but because it is Amazon OS. It is cheap, has access to all of Amazon's services, and for the general consumer will be perfect. Microsoft will have to start a new round of legal processes to show that the OS is infinging it's patents.

    Do I think it will happen? Not a chance!
    Hi all,

    I also think that Amazon is contemplation selling it's own smartphone...because they want one common thread that allows you to use games, movies/videos, music, ebooks, apps, etc. all one one family of devices and the public would also like one common thread.......

    Take care,

    jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
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