Results 1 to 13 of 13
Like Tree2Likes
  • 2 Post By rmausser
  1.    #1  
    While I understand why Palm originally decided to go with the web (and thought it was genius during ces 2009), but was it the right decision, or simply over ambitious? They could of had multitasking, synergy, notifications, and all the things the users care about, but without using html technologies. While It's a good dream to live in, html technologies seem to be relatively slow. Would it of been a better experience if they wrote most of the os in native code, and used it as their primary sdk, but maybe also had an optional set of html tools?

    While it alone wouldn't of been enough, it seems like a huge problem palm had/has is making WebOS fast, and they still haven't figured it out. Think about how all those resources could been spent if they didn't have to rewrite to OS in an attempt to make it faster with Enyo (which is still not nearly fast enough).
  2. #2  
    Web certainly has its bonus and much of their newer Mojo webOS changes have changed thing extremely when it comes to speed and performance, but keep in mind much of what we use in webOS 3.0 like the launcher is written in native C code for speed and performance. These changes had to happen to increase performance and I'm hopeful HP is still pushing updates in this direction to make everything faster.

    What's even more interesting is the fact that I'm typing this reply on my TouchPad and most of the interface is HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Very cool and I can't wait for dedicated hardware support to arrive.

    I also think this is one way Microsoft learned from everyone's mistakes and does everything in C and C++ to make their OS as smooth as ice. HP is moving in this direction and hopefully we'll see this manifest sooner then later. Sorli...
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by sorli View Post
    but keep in mind much of what we use in webOS 3.0 like the launcher is written in native C code for speed and performance.
    Very little of WebOS 3.0 is native C code.

    The majority is HTML5, Advanced CSS3, Javascript and NodeJS.

    I think that the majority of the issue is not with the web technologies, as these run in a webkit browser (Luna) and really are not much of the issue.

    The only issue that these presented were the loading of apps, which take a couple seconds more to load as they have to compile.

    Another issue is not using advanced CSS transitions everywhere for hardware accelerated graphics. Again this issue is just a bit of lag here and there.

    webOS is like a website, a big one at that, but most web technologies are designed to run fairly light.

    After finally really sinking my teeth into webOS over 2 years, I honestly believe the issue is with the linux portion of the OS and memory management.

    Im hearing of people on the Touchpad getting too many card errors, with 1 gig of ram, and that is amazingly terrible.

    There are HUGE memory leaks in webOS, and it has nothing to do with web technologies, it has to do with the linux engineers at sunnyvale who someone how screwed up the multitasking and memory management so badly that apps just bleed dirty memory here and there and continue to take up memory even after they are closed.

    The whole "webOS apps run in the background" multitasking and having Synergy services always running was a cool idea, but it has had disastrous results with the memory usage of devices.

    the biggest issue is that webOS is a HUGE memory and CPU hog and this is due to its management of memory and memory leaks which has to do with the linux portion of the OS imo.
    fxspec06 and DizWhiz like this.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    There are HUGE memory leaks in webOS, and it has nothing to do with web technologies, it has to do with the linux engineers at sunnyvale who someone how screwed up the multitasking and memory management so badly that apps just bleed dirty memory here and there and continue to take up memory even after they are closed.

    The whole "webOS apps run in the background" multitasking and having Synergy services always running was a cool idea, but it has had disastrous results with the memory usage of devices.

    the biggest issue is that webOS is a HUGE memory and CPU hog and this is due to its management of memory and memory leaks which has to do with the linux portion of the OS imo.
    it is true that there are memory leaks in webos. where they come from i have no idea. it could be linux, it could be luna, it could be a little bit of everything. but the software is bugged, that's for damned sure

    anyways, good post.
    Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
    clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
    Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

  5. #5  
    I really feel like using the linux kernel to run a mobile or embedded OS on is a bad idea to begin with. I worked on developing embedded control software for a radar system using Wind River Linux and it was a nightmare even with all of their so-called tools. Building a system from scratch with hardware that (until recently) is even less powerful is even more difficult to get right. I doubt highly that it has anything to do with memory leaks in the kernel; you would end up seeing the whole system crash if that were the case. The Linux kernel has just never been a great core for this kind of thing. This is one area that gives Apple a big advantage to start with.

    So why do they use it? Because it is free and is configurable enough at build time that it can be coaxed into getting the job done.

    Also, basing everything on html and JavaScript has always annoyed me from a runtime efficiency standpoint, but in the grand scheme of things it gives you a remarkable amount of access for patching and tinkering.

    The strength of webOS is the design and elegance of the UI, and that is what keeps me on it.
  6. #6  
    There are HUGE memory leaks in webOS, and it has nothing to do with web technologies, it has to do with the linux engineers at sunnyvale who someone how screwed up the multitasking and memory management so badly that apps just bleed dirty memory here and there and continue to take up memory even after they are closed.
    That is a ridiculously clueless statement.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by donman78 View Post
    That is a ridiculously clueless statement.
    care to tell me why?

    Ive been working with linux since I was 13.

    If you are going to make a comment like this, please, at least back it up with something.

    I have been part of the homebrew community to attempt to get WebOS 2.1 running on the Pre Minus, and have substantially monitored the usage of memory by apps running in WebOS.

    When monitoring the devices memory usage with novaterm, after opening an app, and then closing it, nothing changes in the amount of memory used. The app will open, take up some memory, and then closing it will do nothing to regain any memory back.

    Only when running a garbage collection script like JSTop will memory be reclaimed, or when memory becomes so scarce that the kernel must find a way to reclaim memory.

    PDK apps will reclaim memory only when it is low by moving pages from ram to swap. But then the swap begins to fill, and there is some code which I cannot find that causes the OS to lock up when the swap reaches 100mb, even after we have resized it.

    Synergy services are even worse like google Talk or YIM. They will slowly continue to use up kb after kb of memory until the entire swap is full.

    its a complete disaster.
  8. #8  
    They were ahead of their time. HTML5 is just starting to gain steam. Nodejs is just starting to get really popular. Didn't come soon enough to save webOS.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    I have been part of the homebrew community to attempt to get WebOS 2.1 running on the Pre Minus, and have substantially monitored the usage of memory by apps running in WebOS.

    When monitoring the devices memory usage with novaterm, after opening an app, and then closing it, nothing changes in the amount of memory used. The app will open, take up some memory, and then closing it will do nothing to regain any memory back.

    Only when running a garbage collection script like JSTop will memory be reclaimed, or when memory becomes so scarce that the kernel must find a way to reclaim memory.
    Is webOS keeping the app open in memory and just hiding the UI? Or is the process actually being killed even though the memory isn't being reclaimed?
  10. DizWhiz's Avatar
    Posts
    130 Posts
    Global Posts
    342 Global Posts
    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Is webOS keeping the app open in memory and just hiding the UI? Or is the process actually being killed even though the memory isn't being reclaimed?
    My old Pre felt like it kept everything in memory because after opening and "sliding to close" apps for a few hours usually led to "Too many cards" even if I only had one open.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Is webOS keeping the app open in memory and just hiding the UI? Or is the process actually being killed even though the memory isn't being reclaimed?
    I really am not sure.

    It seems like the process is being killed but the memory isn't being reclaimed.

    I can understand keeping common API's and background services running but it doesnt seem like thats whats happening.
  12. #12  
    What I don't understand is why I see so many "too many cards" issues on the forums, when I have only experienced it once in the last two years I've been on WebOS. I had a Pre+ before, and just recently a Pre 2. I always have like 10+ apps open and have never had a hiccup.
  13. #13  
    A lot of JavaScript developers are lazy (or just uninformed) when it comes to their event listeners and not clearing them. If they don't, that memory is never reclaimed. I'd say it's a collection of terrible development on the developers side, and the DOM engine designed/implemented by Palm/HP.

    It's not as if webOS developers have to worry about retain/release/dealloc (however, now there's ARC) if they were working with Obj-C/C.

Posting Permissions