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  1. #21  
    To me, I think we're looking at a situation where on Thursday, something was almost done but hit a snag (maybe all the HP inventory) and so it couldn't be announced due to the legal requirements for statements made in the setting they were in.

    Friday, they figure a lot of the rest of it out and start the fire sale. I think this is likely because HP could have probably gotten $200 out of these more slowly if this were just about liquidation. I think this is about keeping a developer community interested in WebOS while a licensing deal is arranged. I'm in the camp that says it may not be a Samsung or HTC. I'm thinking it may be somebody like Vizio. I think HP hit on a really good idea when it claimed it was putting WebOS on everything, but it doesn't make as much sense for it to be on printers as it does for it to be on TVs. Vizio could then make its own tablets and could possibly (though not definitely) make phones.
  2. Wh0mpu5's Avatar
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    #22  
    Just a little math here on losses vs gains.
    If HP left the devices on the market at regular price and they all sat there , while HP decided not to continue to make any hardware , the devices value would drop while the price would remain the same , hp would continue to take a continuous loss based on stock levels.

    So lets look at it this way.

    lets say there is 500,000 16gb versions on the market (worldwide)
    and lets say there is 500,000 32gb versions on the market(worldwide)

    @99.00 for a 16gb the money coming is would be 4,950,00000.00
    @149.00 for the 32 gb the Money coming in would be 7,450,0000.00

    The approximate cost for hp to make these is 328.00 ( based on conjecture from some other forum thread).
    the 16gb would cost - 1,640,000,000.00
    the 32gb would also cost -1,640,000,000.00

    Most companies advertising budgets also exceed hundreds of millions of dollars. So throw in say 250 million over the course of 1 year , that may be conservative , but whatever

    So hp's loss really is HUGE but not something a company throwing 12 billion away on another company will really notice.

    So was this firesale brilliant or stupidity , well stupid comes to mind first for the speed at which is happened , but brilliant in that WebOs is now in atleast 1 million peoples hands , possibly more.

    * for someones interest these numbers are not real , just giving a visual thought
    Last edited by Wh0mpu5; 08/21/2011 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Spelling
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    hp (read leo a., the *****) wants out of the pc business, so they will likely spin it off if they cant sell it outright.

    see: HP Communities - A Toast to Opportunity - HP Communities

    its a very profitable business i really cant see them just shutting it down.
    it's extremely profitable.. it's their #1 revenue maker, is it not? But revenue isn't everything I guess... they want the margins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    As far as HP has said, nothing has been decided on the future of the rest of the PSG group. There's no way that they'll simply discontinue all their current products as they have with with the WebOS hardware. More likely they'll spin it off as Compaq and simply change the branding.
    well, then again, HP has surprised us quite a bit so far, haven't they? I think Leo has made it clear that he wants to do things his way, and the only way. So I guess when it comes to the entire PSG, we will have to wait and see what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    The amount of losses they are taking is really the most surprising part.

    1. Taking a loss via the firesale
    2. Taking a loss via share value ($12 billion loss of value on Friday alone) (over half their value since Feb.)
    3. Taking a loss of integrity and trust with their existing partners (all those stores suddenly stuck with stock, dealing with angry customers, packed phone lines)
    4. Taking a loss of trust with their current and future customers.
    5. Taking a loss of trust with future licensees.

    How many people will never buy an HP product again, or at least not for a very long time. How many will recommend against HP products and services in the workplace, how badly will this affect their Holiday season sales. How many lawsuits will spring up and what costs will be associated with that. How much cost in over-time, trips, interviews, commercials, press releases, promotional swag, reduced pricing, and contractual compromises will have to happen before they can regain trust in the HP brand and products.

    Sad really. All they had to do was spin the press release a bit, reduce the prices A LITTLE, promote this new direction just a little... but instead. BILLIONS DOWN THE TOILET. A M A Z I N G!
    Well you've nailed a few points right there. Especially when it comes to the trust and relationships they have developed.

    You get all these relationships, then go on this tour saying how HP will be as cool as apple, then after one month of not even really trying to do it right, they throw in the towel. Ya, that doesn't make sense.

    What makes me laugh a little bit is you have the CFO basically on stage saying "it's not worth the risk right now putting lots of money for 1 to 2 years to develop the products we need to market for success" etc etc...

    .. well they already have a footprint in the industry, all they had to do was build a quality product.

    On the other hand, how does it look for investors.. they're willing to drop all they've done, all the cash they have spent for the touchpad, pre 3 and veer, and take even more of a risk and try to spin off into a sole software company? I'm pretty sure that will take more cash, and more risk, with no guaranteed ROI. Seems a bit strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgdonovan View Post
    The drop in share price was not due specifically to webOS device cancellation. It was due to the entire message: margin pressure, Palm investment has potential for $1.2B+ USD write-down, PSD spinoff/sale and $10B Autonomy acquisition (@10x revenue premium). In total, all the changes created investor uncertainty. With the global macro situation the way it is, investors want stable companies with large cash positions, good balance sheets and a consistent strategy.
    Which is true.. and I can understand what HP is essentially trying to do.. but they just did it all wrong, and dropped the ball hardcore.

    Time will tell.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wh0mpu5 View Post
    Just a little math here on losses vs gains.
    If HP left the devices on the market at regular price and they all sat there , while HP decided not to continue to make any hardware , the devices value would drop while the price would remain the same , hp would continue to take a continuous loss based on stock levels.

    So lets look at it this way.

    lets say there is 500,000 16gb versions on the market (worldwide)
    and lets say there is 500,000 32gb versions on the market(worldwide)

    @99.00 for a 16gb the money coming is would be 4,950,00000.00
    @149.00 for the 32 gb the Money coming in would be 7,450,0000.00

    The approximate cost for hp to make these is 328.00 ( based on conjecture from some other forum thread).
    the 16gb would cost - 1,640,000,000.00
    the 32gb would also cost -1,640,000,000.00

    Most companies advertising budgets also exceed hundreds of millions of dollars. So throw in say 250 million over the course of 1 year , that may be conservative , but whatever

    So hp's loss really is HUGE but not something a company throwing 12 billion away on another company will really notice.

    So was this firesale brilliant or stupidity , well stupid comes to mind first for the speed at which is happened , but brilliant in that WebOs is now in atleast 1 million peoples hands , possibly more.

    * for someones interest these numbers are not real , just giving a visual thought
    The $328/unit has no adjustment for scaled production - THAT number is much lower - could be as much as half that, when production quantitites approach the .5 million mark.

    I estimated in another thrad here on PC that the loss is about $100,000,000 for 100,000 units at $200/unit as an average manufacturer's cost.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wh0mpu5 View Post
    Just a little math here on losses vs gains.
    If HP left the devices on the market at regular price and they all sat there , while HP decided not to continue to make any hardware , the devices value would drop while the price would remain the same , hp would continue to take a continuous loss based on stock levels.

    So lets look at it this way.

    lets say there is 500,000 16gb versions on the market (worldwide)
    and lets say there is 500,000 32gb versions on the market(worldwide)

    @99.00 for a 16gb the money coming is would be 4,950,00000.00
    @149.00 for the 32 gb the Money coming in would be 7,450,0000.00

    The approximate cost for hp to make these is 328.00 ( based on conjecture from some other forum thread).
    the 16gb would cost - 1,640,000,000.00
    the 32gb would also cost -1,640,000,000.00

    Most companies advertising budgets also exceed hundreds of millions of dollars. So throw in say 250 million over the course of 1 year , that may be conservative , but whatever

    So hp's loss really is HUGE but not something a company throwing 12 billion away on another company will really notice.

    So was this firesale brilliant or stupidity , well stupid comes to mind first for the speed at which is happened , but brilliant in that WebOs is now in atleast 1 million peoples hands , possibly more.

    * for someones interest these numbers are not real , just giving a visual thought
    I'd say atleast half of the people who bought the touchpad via the firesale are just porting android on it.
  6. #26  
    $328 FOR A TABLET MADE IN CHINA? That is hillarious, granted its the first year but really? HP has been making computers in china for a long time and they are good at it. Im not convinced the tablets cost too much more than the fire sale in chinese money.
  7. #27  
    @precentral, Get this: The @hp PSG splits, lovingly retakes the #palm name, and licenses #webOS to itself from HP #crazierthingshavehappened
    Great tweet from @DaHuid623 speculating on the possibilities. Maybe they won't have to take the palm name, but the PSG splitting off and making webOS devices, with webOS licensed by HP would be pretty slick. If only they had actually discussed this in the beginning, thought it through for 5 mins, and announced that the PSG group would continue to support the touchpad and all other HP hardware 100% through and after spinoff, this wouldn't have been such a trainwreck. HP stock didn't tank because of the business decisions, it clearly tanked because Apotheke clearly doesn't have a wise grip on how go manage the very transition for which he is executing.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorhead777 View Post
    $328 FOR A TABLET MADE IN CHINA? That is hillarious, granted its the first year but really? HP has been making computers in china for a long time and they are good at it. Im not convinced the tablets cost too much more than the fire sale in chinese money.
    Chinese Foxconn workers killed themselves over production of an Apple hardware that sells for almost twice that much with a more massively scaled production. Just sayin.
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