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  1. Fumanchu's Avatar
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    #61  
    Hi

    This is what I had posted into other forum thread.

    If you plan to fight for WebOS do it now and do it in a way of what is happening today will no longer happen with other vendor.

    --------------------------------

    Sorry to get my nose inside your community.

    Your idea to fight is good !! every WebOS user should fight right now. But I think the community need to focus on something else.

    The first (and last) question the community need to solve is:
    ¿How people are going to get interest in WebOS if the main developer of the OS (HP) will discontinue and eventually will turn into abandomware?

    No matter how much effort you put on supporting WebOS, making tutorials, posting screenshots and making evangelism, people will always touch this question.

    A way to reduce the risk of any OS becoming abandomware is to turn it open source under any OSI approved license (opensource_org). With that you will be always independent of the main developer, and virtually anyone can jump to develop and improve WebOS.

    So my suggestions for your community.

    1) Make a petition to HP to open source WebOS under a approved OSI open source license. Make some pressure, post the petition on the press, slashdot, etc. Once the petition is signed send an open letter to the HP CEO with all the signatures, and make it public when you send the request and what you get as a reply.
    Also, in your petition ask to open source as much as HP can, possible there is some third party source code that can not be open by them.

    (Warning: WebOS is not open source, don't get confused that there are some components that are already open (opensource_palm_com))

    2) Get the WebOS developer community to start right now a WebOS open source clone. Yes, it will be hard, it will take time, it will cost a lot of resources, but it can be accomplished. Just take the examples there is "Unix Clone = Linux" "Windows x86 Clone = React OS" "BeOS clone = HaikuOS". So grab the stuff you already have open source (opensource_palm_com), grab all technical documentation and start to open source the WebOS component by component.

    3) Get the community together. Since you are an active WebOS community member (I'm not), start getting the community together towards the idea of Open Source and try to bring them together to help. Where does the WebOS developers hang out? where does the users hang out? It is possible that a lot of WebOS will start to disappear with time and fade away. Try to bring the people together.

    Right now it is the time to bring the WebOS into an open source community, before the OS fade away and users/developers make the complete switch.

    Good Luck !
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by errsta View Post
    So I ask you, most likely equally biased denizens: am I the crazy one???
    I am starting to believe my wife on this one -- we ALL are the crazy ones for caring so much about this kind of stuff. She says "it's just a small pc that allows you to do stuff that used to require a PC, as long as it does what you want who cares whether it is Android, webOS, Windows phone whatever, or iPhone".

    I gave her props for knowing all the different OSes (she forgot RIM, but doesn't everyone? ).
  3. #63  
    It came down to hardware. Sun Tzu said that when your opponent is stronger do not attack head-on. Out-flank him.

    Palm copied the original iPad to attack the iPad head on. The problem was that six months earlier, Apple had moved on to the iPad 2.

    The Pre3 was to be an iPhone 3GS killer, and it would have been. But then Apple came out with the iPhone 4 and now the iPhone 5.

    It was like a Judo match. We attacked head on and they just side-stepped us and threw us to the ground.

    Android on the other hand launched a thousand guerrilla attacks. Apple only makes one little 3.5" so Android attacked every other size from 2.6" to 4.5".

    It turns out that only 8% of buyers want a 3.5"-3.7" display. 4.3" Displays Are Now the Sweet Spot. Few people have Steve Jobs tiny hands.

    Some people want physical keyboards so Android has dozens of QWERTY and slider keyboards. Aple has none.

    Apple is a huge shark. We tried to attack head on with a little shark.

    Android attacked with a thousand piranhas.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone has claimed that android or apple “has no glitches.” I think you are being a little too defensive. We’re all here because we like (liked) WebOS, some of us are just tired of the endless apologists that never allow for frank discussion of WebOS’s faults/limitations on the boards.
    I think, at least on PreCentral, people that have actually used iOS and Android have always been very realistic about their flaws. For example, my day to day phone is an iPhone 4 and I'll freely admit that iOS 4's notification system is almost comical in its atrociousness. Folks who have switched to Android seem to have no problem admitting that it takes some time to adjust to the UI of whatever skin they use.

    The other side of the fence seems to subscribe to the "if webOS doesn't have it then I don't need it" mentality. Coupling that with their tendency to repeat certain mantras ("iOS doesn't multitask! Android is clunky and fragmented!") makes it difficult to actually discuss the merits and drawbacks of webOS and, I suspect, it played a small role in webOS' demise.
    koolkid09 and finngirl like this.
  5. Fumanchu's Avatar
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    #65  
    The hardware may be "cool Factor". But the platform is what works behind it. It is software and software can be improved. If WebOS don't get more improvements in a few years it will be outdated.

    The choice is imminent. Should you fight for the platform? or Switch?

    If you choose to fight: I believe in the open source way.
    If you choose to fight: It does not mean that you will turn into a crazy zelot. You can fight and be realistic at the same time.

    If you choose to switch: There is not problem, it is just a different path. No one has critic your choice under this circumstance.
  6. samab's Avatar
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    #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fumanchu View Post
    If you choose to fight: I believe in the open source way.
    If you choose to fight: It does not mean that you will turn into a crazy zelot. You can fight and be realistic at the same time.
    Realistic?

    Haiku is 10 years old --- still runs on 10 year old x86 hardware with wifi that doesn't even support WPA.

    https://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/release-notes
  7. Fumanchu's Avatar
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    #67  
    samad. What is your suggestion?
  8. samab's Avatar
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    #68  
    My suggestion? Enjoy your current webos hardware and accept the fact that in a few months time, LTE quad-core tablets with Adobe Flash 11 will be in the market.
  9. #69  
    This guy was the delisional one:


    Read the article again to soak it all in: Apotheker: HP to ship products within weeks of announcement, wants to sit at the cool kids table

    “I hope one day people will say ‘this is as cool as HP,’ not ‘as cool as Apple’.”

    “HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn’t have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship.”

    -------------------------------------------------------

    The next time some old guy comes at you with a Superman lunch box, run.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by errsta View Post
    So I ask you, most likely equally biased denizens: am I the crazy one???
    I read this line in my head in Jeff the Vomit Guy's voice. Gotta be a Stern fan on here somewhere that gets it!
  11. #71  
    Today I had a VLSI designer (that bascally means hardcore chip designer) at my office. I gave him a tour of my Palm pre.
    He: "Oh God, what phone is that"
    Me: Palm pre
    He: "How do you know about these thing"
    Me "Quiet"
    He: "Where can I buy one...."

    It is amazing that most people even don't know that Webos even exists.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by errsta View Post
    I've been a Palm guy since my Treo 600. I'll put that out there, so know from the get go that I am biased. Since then, not once did I seriously consider a non-Palm platform for my phone. Sure, I had my "Palm better ____ or else I will ____" but when it came down to it, I always stuck it out and waited - usually with outdated hardware.

    Anyhow, this whole firesale got me thinking. Every other post I read is "Can we flash this to run Android" (to which my webOS-centric mind asks "why would you want to ruin it?") have read a few comments (obviously not on precentral) praising the hardware and blaming the OS. Hell, the guy at Best Buy flat out told me "HP just put the wrong OS on it or something". Either I'm delusional about webOS superiority (and I don't think I am since I'm curious about all of the mobile platforms and play with them ever chance I get) or Android is doing a hell of a job convincing their users that Android is the cat's pajamas.....

    So I ask you, most likely equally biased denizens: am I the crazy one???
    You're reading many of the same posts I am saying "let's get Android running on it!", but I've never seen a post saying the hardware is awesome but the OS is not. Quite the opposite.

    I don't begrudge anyone trying to hack Android onto the Touchpad, because it'd be a cool hack. Whether it would be any more useful than just running webOS on it is debatable (I vote no), but at $99, it's a great box to experiment with.

    I'd be much more interested on someone getting webOS to run natively on better hardware - but then the OS itself is proprietary (though it's quite open), and I'm an old fart now and care about things like legality..
  13. #73  
    LOL - just saw your tags for this post. unhelpful, but funny. =)
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by webosfreak View Post
    Today I had a VLSI designer (that bascally means hardcore chip designer) at my office. I gave him a tour of my Palm pre.
    He: "Oh God, what phone is that"
    Me: Palm pre
    He: "How do you know about these thing"
    Me "Quiet"
    He: "Where can I buy one...."

    It is amazing that most people even don't know that Webos even exists.
    Well, iOS and Android pretty much suck all the air out of the room. Palm barely mounted an ad campaign (widely derided).

    I've been shopping at Sprint for a new phone (can't switch carriers because the other plans are way too expensive), and trying to figure out how I'd use the various flavours of Android. Fast, feature-ful, but clunky and so badly designed. My 2+ year old Pre, with patches from webOS internals and the homebrew community, is still an awesome phone.

    My friends who are non-nerds look at my usability demos, and say "but it doesn't have a 10mp camera! And you can't do voice recognition! And the fart apps!" But the techies I show it to say "damn shame this OS never got a decent hardware platform or mindshare".
  15. cgk
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    #75  
    Interesting how for a while here it's been impossible to have an honest debate but if you listen to the precental podcast, suddenly they knew all along that the touchpad hardware was "crappy" and that HP was mishandling the situation - a massive reverse ferret in less than a week.
    SnotBoogie likes this.
  16. #76  
    The chatter about Android on TP is just geeks being geeks.

    The vast majority of TPs won't ever have Android on it.
    Replacing the OS or dual booting is just too much hassle for most people.
    And the main functions of a tablet are browsing and email (plus a bit of calendar here and facebook there). Anybody willing to buy a tablet with a comatose platform that - at this point - is unlikely to ever get new apps was not over interested in apps in the first place. And a flash supporting tablet hardly needs apps for most regular use cases.

    Regular users got a very nice browser device that covers 99% of what a regular user actually would use the device for. Why would they bother and take risks with putting Android on it. Something might go wrong, the OS is less nice and all they get is access to a big app store that on a $99 device you don't really need.

    I myself would probably try out the Ubuntu chroot option - but I'm in this geek minority.
    Even the people on this forum are not a representative sample.
    Just by creating a login for a tech-forum and posting here we already disqualified as regular users.

    People bought the TP in masses because it is actually a very nice device - and at $99 any small flaws are easily forgiven. Android running on it will be a rare exception - not the rule.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  17. #77  
    I guess I'm crazy too!
    http://forums.webosnation.com/members/stargate-albums-my-pre-picture960-moving-pre.gif
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by dong1225 View Post
    I got it out of interest for webOS and the $99 price point, but I do consider you guys who paid $499 or even $399 for the thing as suckers. No offense, you guys are great, one of the best electronics community I ever met and insanely helpful, but the TouchPad wasn't a finished product and you guys jumped the gun.
    In no way shape or form meant to offend those that haven't yet.....

    but this sucker, got his price match a few days ago.....and owned from launch.....so who's the sucker now?
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Interesting how for a while here it's been impossible to have an honest debate but if you listen to the precental podcast, suddenly they knew all along that the touchpad hardware was "crappy" and that HP was mishandling the situation - a massive reverse ferret in less than a week.
    I admit to some of that myself. Frankly the Touchpad is not a horrible machine. It's basically an iPad version 1, hardware-wise. But my optimism was based on the fact that surely HP was cooking up something better that we'd all get eventually. It's tough to take a huge company like HP and expect them to turn out state-of-the-art hardware with a brand new OS and a brand new team, recently acquired.

    It's obvious now in hindsight that Leo's heart (his cold, black, tiny heart) was never in this. The Palm acquisition was all on Hurd and Bradley. Hurd was actually a fairly forward-thinking CEO, but as others have pointed out, he couldn't keep it in his pants.

    Ah, for the good old "Madmen" days, when that would have been considered an asset..
    Last edited by blinktreo; 08/26/2011 at 06:11 PM. Reason: grammar is not your gramma it's your grammar
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fumanchu View Post
    Hi

    This is what I had posted into other forum thread.

    If you plan to fight for WebOS do it now and do it in a way of what is happening today will no longer happen with other vendor.

    --------------------------------

    Sorry to get my nose inside your community.

    Your idea to fight is good !! every WebOS user should fight right now. But I think the community need to focus on something else.

    ...

    So my suggestions for your community.

    1) Make a petition to HP to open source WebOS under a approved OSI open source license. Make some pressure, post the petition on the press, slashdot, etc. Once the petition is signed send an open letter to the HP CEO with all the signatures, and make it public when you send the request and what you get as a reply

    ...

    Right now it is the time to bring the WebOS into an open source community, before the OS fade away and users/developers make the complete switch.

    Good Luck !
    etc. Yeah, good luck with that. Petitions make for short-term satisfaction, but unless you're insanely wealthy and can jiggle HP's stock, they're useless.

    Wasn't it Palm who bought BeOS? And they gulped it down and did nothing with it, unless I missed something. I'm also not sure it was Palm.. but whoever it was, BeOS died.

    There was an effort to re-engineer BeOS without going afoul of copyright, patents or licensing. It died on the vine.

    The big takeaway is this: HP bought IP. webOS is IP. The new style is to buy someone else's idea and then look for folks who are using it, and sue the crap outta them or get them to license it. This is the opposite of innovation.
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