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  1. micahdg's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    At least android has tons of great apps including doc editing and tapatalk is a one of my favorite apps.
    True enough. Can't deny that. I wouldn't mind running android in a card on WebOS I already have dosbox running.
  2. #22  
    Forums is tapatalk powered.

    -- Sent from my Palm TouchPad using Forums
  3. #23  
    The OS is fine so far. The lack of Apps is the biggest frustration (and the lack of some hardware features that Android tablets have). There isn't even a decent doc editor.
  4. #24  
    Your not entirley crazy ;~) we as webos nuts do tend to over value webos a bit, but on the flip side the mass populous has no idea of what we have and how good it is. Even the pseudo tech kids you run into in the best buys dont "get" webos. I saw it with two separate reps in a BB today. I was extolling the benefits, even showing them on my pre... they both thought that webos was the reason for the failure... not ever thinking of Leo/hp- sad. Stereotypical sheep.
    Titan078 likes this.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ8 View Post
    ^ This!!

    I am that! I represent the "masses"

    97% of us that buy gadgets DON'T want to do all that. We aren't tech savvy. We aren't technology nerds(no offense). We aren't interested in that. And most can't. I know I can't. Im just your average user. I buy something and I expect it work right out of the box.

    Why should I buy a Big Mac at McDonalds and have to bring it home to place my own pattie on it?

    You gotta understand the user base. Thats why iPad shows little grannies using the product. K.I.S.S. Period! And it will sell!

    Amen .... the dude abides----
  6. #26  
    To be totally honest, one of the reasons I ordered a TP today was, if necessary, to be able to be one of the ones that went down with the ship.

    It's been one he'll of a ride. Hope it's not over, but ill be here at the end!
    Hammertime42 likes this.
  7. #27  
    webOS has proven to be extremely difficult to optimize. Using a web browser as a base for an operating system may have allowed them to throw something together quickly, but a web browser is one of the most inefficient ways to build an operating system.

    Ever since the CEO change, hp seems to have been only pushing stuff out in order to fufill previous contracts. There's been no serious drive to better the platform.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
    jokkel likes this.
  8. #28  
    I think that Android running as many applications as it can "theoretically" hold in memory is p!ss poor design, as well, if you ask me.

    Not giving me a way to close apps is so ridiculously idiotic.

    No, a Touchpad isn't an iPad. It's different.
    No, a Touchpad isn't a Droid. It's different.

    I'm sure I could find a boatload of reasons to prefer each over the other two.

    If it weren't for the lack of task management in Android, tho... I'd say that it blows everything out of the water. But, as it stands, webOS can still be WAY more efficient by allowing me to naturally close background tasks when I want them closed. Sure there are Task Killers for Android, but this is something that needs to be built into the OS.

    HP probly sold out because they know it's over once Google figures out how to "swipe to the left" [...or right] to close apps in Honeycomb.

    My Acer Iconia A100 has half the battery life of the Touchpad, likely because it's got a smaller battery and I can't kill background tasks efficiently. No control. No way to change it.

    With webOS, a way to change the OS was actually possible, even tho it's on javascript. But you'd figure that a javascript-based OS would be more of a battery hog than it was. Seemed far better with Govnah and Uberkernel than when paired with my Pre- or Pixi. 1.5GHz made the Touchpad smooth as butter.

    Touchpad has a way nicer screen than the A100, as well. Way better for outside visibility.

    Oh well... 3 tablets for the price of what I paid for the Touchpad 15 days ago is a good deal. Thank goodness the CEO advertised the fact that I needed to return my "unloved" Touchpad, otherwise I never would have been able to triple down. What a saint that guy is.
  9. #29  
    the hardware looks fine, the os is fine, the way the os is programmed around the hardware is probably whats at fault, optimisation and well built code, thats what works, you cant blame hardware for glitchy software.

    webOS runs on the hardware, doesnt mean it runs at its best just yet.
  10. #30  
    most likely webos community never understood that you need way more than a good os to be succesful. to be succesful you must deliver customer value. a good os is the basis for this. but not more. have look for all those trillions of comments here where people that have said sth about the missing delivery of customer value in the form of functioning, reliable apps have been told to shut the f... up and return their device. the whole community is infected by this.
    but that´s for sure not what you ned to do to get a broad audience in the product. you know most people don´t care their os, they want intuitivly, reliable, fast, well functioning devices. the fruit company keeps delivering this, hpalm didn´t take the effort....they didn´t even take the effort for marketing.
    and so it comes, you are finding yourself on a dead horse

    Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you’re riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However in business we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following;

    Buy a stronger whip.

    Change riders.

    Threaten the horse with termination.

    Say things like, “This is the way we have always ridden this horse.”

    Appoint a committee to study the horse.

    Arrange to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.

    Lower the standards so that dead horses can be included.

    Appoint a tiger team to revive the dead horse.

    Ride the dead horse “outside the box.”

    Buy a commercial off-the-shelf dead horse.

    Create a training session to increase our riding ability.

    Reclassify the dead horse as “living-impaired.”

    Compare the state of dead horses in today’s environment.

    Change the autopsy report to declare that “This horse is not dead.”

    Kill all the other horses, so this one will look the same.

    Name the dead horse “Paradigm Shift” and keep riding it.

    Ride the dead horse “smarter” not harder.

    Hire outside contractors to ride the dead horse.

    Harness several dead horses together for increased speed.

    Do a time management study to see if the lighter riders would improve productivity.

    Declare that “No horse is too dead to beat.”

    Call the dead horse a “joint venture” and let others ride it.

    Provide additional funding to increase the horse’s performance.

    Do a cost analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.

    Purchase an aftermarket product to make dead horses run faster.

    Declare the horse is “better, faster, and cheaper” dead.

    Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.

    Declare that “This horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.”

    Get the horse a Web site.

    Promote the horse to a supervisory position.



    Time for a question. Did any of these seem vaguely familiar to you? A few I suspect. So, now that you have read about all the things that you shouldn’t do and already know, please go to the beginning of this website and check out all the things that you haven’t read about that you should do and don’t know!

    having android on it would be superb because its a (probably) alive horse, but even more interesting would be Apples OS on it.

    IS THERE A WAY OF GETTING IT ON IT??
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by UncleKeg View Post
    Your not entirley crazy ;~) ... they both thought that webos was the reason for the failure... not ever thinking of Leo/hp- sad. Stereotypical sheep.
    What do you call people that led around on promises of new hardware, updates, app store build up, core app capability etc. for over 2 years just to come to EOL after a month and a half of a flagship product?

    Sheep get herded and led.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 08/21/2011 at 07:39 PM.
    koolkid09 likes this.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by errsta View Post
    Either I'm delusional about webOS superiority....


    So I ask you, most likely equally biased denizens: am I the crazy one???
    I think by and large webos denizens like what they like so much that they are blind to see the perspective of people that do not hold the same biases. Worse they are blind to the fact that most consumers are NOT like them.

    You mentioned "superiority." but that is subjective. Example, I don't care about multitasking. So what you may consider a feature making webos superior i consider nearly irrelevant. Another exampe: I'd rather have a great camera app with tons of options like white balance adjustment similar to the android os then a plain camera app like webos. Like to me an OS without the apps i want is by definition not superior because i can't do what i want with it. But the point is it's subjective. And what one person finds superior another may not.

    I think the people that love webos rather then identify real problems with both the software and hardware, simply decided they'd ignore it. Stifle any opposing voices, stifle anyone that dared claim webos was less then perfect. Columns i've seen written in the last few days would have gotten people banned two weeks ago. And calling people names like trolls and such became common place for more then a year here. And it was going on back when the first person mentioned that maybe the pre minus wasn't getting the sell through it needed three months after launch. Or That the touchpad may be thick. Or the Veer was small. Those are all things an average consumer may bring up but many people just had no interest in the opinion. I now find it interesting that on the This is my next podcast you've got Self describe webos lovers like Dieter saying "HP drank their on koolaid. they were like we got scale." That's a webos guy saying, HP's failure was believing the stuff that was being parroted around these boards for 9 months, the koolaid.

    You bring up the "superior" operating system but i'd argue for most potential consumers it doesn't matter enough without the other things like apps and accessories and stuff. Hell i don't think it matters much. if it did they'd have taken share from apple, android and blackberry. Clearly other things matter more to a whole lot of people. And there seems to be a sense to me that the OS is perfect. But i never thought so. I mean the stock music player is a joke, album art still shows up the photos at time, the camera, like i said above, has few features, the calender had some issues, falty doc editing, cumbersome copy and paste, the mail client lacks features. It's a good O.S. but i also think the denizens, as you put it, have a false sense of superiority of their O.S.

    That and there are people here that just hate apple. But think everyone is just like them. And that alone would and should sell devices and the device doesn't sell it's just cause that person loves apple. Most people just don't care about any company. And that same this is my next podcast made touch on that, albeit in the context of people buying android phones, saying
    "There is a very small amount of people that say I hate company X so i won't buy their products. that's crazy. If you think the people that went and bought the droid in any kind of majority bought it to make a stand against apple you are high and drunk. And you also may be emotionally unstable and you need help. The number of those people is so tiny. I'm not saying i don't get it. I get it. You hate apple. They suck. They are the worst. You're in a very small group of special people. Most people just want a cool phone that does awesome stuff."
    That's like in minute 36 of that podcast. But that mentality is all over Precentral. And it's part the delusion you speak of. Most people don't care about that stuff even if people here do. And it's a bad bad business plan to try to appeal to that tiny group.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 08/21/2011 at 10:18 PM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by khe05 View Post
    most likely webos community never understood that you need way more than a good os to be succesful. to be succesful you must deliver customer value. a good os is the basis for this. but not more. snip
    I like this post!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    I think by and large webos denizens like what they like that they are blind to see the perspective of people that do not hold the same biases. Worse they are blind to the fact that most consumers are NOT like them. ...snip
    Thanks!!! Good read.

    One thing, PreCentral fandom is tame compared to a certain Apple sight, but there is more censorship here, which in a way I understand, doesn't mean I like it, but I can understand. ,
  14. cool8man's Avatar
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    #34  
    You're not delusional. webOS is definitely a better operating system. The problem is that it takes much more than just a great OS to be successful. To be competitive in this market you need to have amazing hardware, easy to use & powerful development software, a vibrant burgeoning app store, an amazing ad campaign, and tons of web services. HP couldn't deliver on that.

    webOS is definitely easier to use and better designed than Android. Arguably it does many things better than iOS, Android, and Windows Phone. But that's not enough. You have to have the whole package to be competitive and HP wasn't willing to make the investment.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I prefer the brilliant design and ease of use of Palm Pre over any Android phone that has ever been released. I've had my Pre for almost 2 years now and after seeing all the agony and frustration my family members have had with their Android phones I don't regret sticking with the Pre one bit. If anything seeing all the Android headaches and limitations has made me appreciate how far ahead of it's time the Pre was.

    I realize that I am going to have to abandon my Pre at some point. Most likely I'm going to jump to a Windows Phone Mango. iPhone isn't even a choice on Sprint and Android is just horribly designed from my experience with it.

    The Treo 700p and the Palm Pre were two of the best phones I have ever had in my life. The proof of that is that I kept them far longer than any of the other smartphones I have ever owned.
    Artichoke and Garfonso like this.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by cool8man View Post
    You're not delusional. webOS is definitely a better operating system. The problem is that it takes much more than just a great OS to be successful. To be competitive in this market you need to have amazing hardware, easy to use & powerful development software, a vibrant burgeoning app store, an amazing ad campaign, and tons of web services. HP couldn't deliver on that.

    webOS is definitely easier to use and better designed than Android. Arguably it does many things better than iOS, Android, and Windows Phone. But that's not enough. You have to have the whole package to be competitive and HP wasn't willing to make the investment.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I prefer the brilliant design and ease of use of Palm Pre over any Android phone that has ever been released. I've had my Pre for almost 2 years now and after seeing all the agony and frustration my family members have had with their Android phones I don't regret sticking with the Pre one bit. If anything seeing all the Android headaches and limitations has made me appreciate how far ahead of it's time the Pre was.

    I realize that I am going to have to abandon my Pre at some point. Most likely I'm going to jump to a Windows Phone Mango. iPhone isn't even a choice on Sprint and Android is just horribly designed from my experience with it.

    The Treo 700p and the Palm Pre were two of the best phones I have ever had in my life. The proof of that is that I kept them far longer than any of the other smartphones I have ever owned.
    As SnotBoogie said, better is subjective.

    Are you running a stock Pre or Touchpad without preware? If not that speaks volumes for the superior OS. A superior OS should not need third party patches to get the OS up to snuff.

    "The Treo 700p and the Palm Pre were two of the best phones I have ever had in my life. The proof of that is that I kept them far longer than any of the other smartphones I have ever owned."


    This doesn't prove anything to anyone but you. For all we know you like keeping out of date tech.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 08/21/2011 at 08:37 PM.
  16. #36  
    Palm based products has brought down several companies. Failure is the only consistent thing since the WinMo treos.
    sinsin07, Artichoke and jokkel like this.
  17. #37  
    I'm not delusional. I have saved many many hundreds of dollars running palm's "failed" products nobody wanted and they have served me well.
    Page Plus Cellular - Talk Smart
    Palm M100 > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 755P > Palm Pro > Palm Pre-
    FenrirWolf likes this.
  18. #38  
    i think webOS is superior to other OS(es), and that's why i come here...to read posts from others who share my sentiment.

    op, i understand your concern...but who cares what other non-webOS users think?!. webS works the way i think, and i gave up praising webOS to non-webOS users a long time ago...makes my tech conversations much more bearable.

    i digress. to some, iOS or Android or WP or even Blackberry OS is "superior"...objectively though, there's 1 thing that determines the "superior" OS: MONEY realized from the SALES of the OS and/or devices running the OS.

    just my 2¢ (that's a "cent" symbol created by holding down on the "4" virtual key on my TP...sweetness, just how it should be).
  19. #39  
    I feel webOS is a decent OS with some good ideas. But I don't think it is necessarily better (or worse) than android (never used an iPhone.) More to the point, it seemed better back a year and a half ago, but then android progressed and webOS stagnated.

    Ultimately though, I care about what the phone (and/or tablet) as a whole can do much more so than its "elegance" or its "simplicity" or its "sophistication" or any of those superlatives that tend to get bandied around by the WebOS-or-nothing-folk around here.

    Taken as a whole (hardware, OS, apps, everything) for my money, right now, android offers more than webOS (even before the meltdown of last week.)

    Also, I think a number of people around here make their arguments based on what they see as the potential of webOS at some point in the future. In the future when "the apps will come" when "the new hardware gets released" etc. etc. and ignores the reality of now.

    Regardless of how much of a self proclaimed homer you consider yourself for WebOS, if you're looking for a new device right now, you're going to be doing yourself a disservice by not looking at your alternatives with an open mind.

    -Suntan
    Dune#AC likes this.
  20. #40  
    I have both a TouchPad and an iPad1 with the latest OS. I can promise you that webOS is a far superior OS than iOS. It is easier to use, it is more intuitive, and it has "real" multitasking. I am not shutting down the app I am using just to quickly look up some info.

    In terms of functionality, webOS is better than iOS. The hardware and ecosystem is where webOS struggles. But HP is trying to remedy both. Let other companies worry about hardware while HP works on building the ecosystem. HP sees that as win-win.
    laingman and Garfonso like this.
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