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  1.    #1  
    So basically, looking at upwards of 6 months launch date after announcement for Pre3, been months for Veer and launching this Sunday. I wanted this phone (pre3) when I saw the announcement, I'm sure a lot of people did and if it was available soon after, many would have bought it.

    But...........that long for launch after announcement?............


    With the speed that today's smartphones are progressing, this thing would be half outdated by launch.

    I don't know why webOS is getting such horrible treatment by every company that tries to market it. First Palm and now HP.

    If product is not ready for launch, don't introduce it till they are ready (think Apple method). Build up the hype, launch soon after, sell sell sell.

    Don't build up the hype, and wait 6 months to release the product. Hype dies, buyers move away and you fall behind the competition. Exactly what is happening here with the Pre3 and Veer. Veer launches on AT&T Sunday... not a damn word on AT&T's site, not even pre-orders, nothing. What kind of marketing is this?

    Pre3 hardware is nothing to write home about. It's the webOS that saves it because it doesn't NEED all that power but still, marketing marketing marketing to the masses is what's going to sell. Average Joe is gonna think dual core is better than single beause 2 is better than 1...done. decision made. Do you really thing they're gonna sit there and compute that webOS is a very efficient mobile OS and thus does not need the extra power? no!

    I'm SO VERY disappointed that HP failed to renovate the hardware, and bring it to market in timely manner.

    The buzz is gone, the hype, the people are jumping ship, it's a disaster and i'm afraid the end maybe near for webOS unless someone out there can save it, and I sure hope to god there is, because HP isn't it.

    I just am afraid to see webOS bite the dust, and only wished it had been what Android and iOS are today.

    Such a great mobile operating system, which just can't get in the right hands.


    /rant
  2. #2  
    The relaunch of HP webOS is only just starting. I'm sorry to say, but yet more patience is required. I am still optimistic!
  3. Thead's Avatar
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    #3  
    I guess the main thing I agree with you on that we have yet to see is how HP will handle marketing. I'm ok with the Veer, Pre3, and Touch Pad as devices. I think they are high enough quality to succeed in the marketplace. But we are yet to see even a hint of what HP will do to market any of their new and upcoming devices. Even if they came out with a new super ultra slab later this year, poor/no marketing could still kill it.
  4. #4  
    I believe HP noticed some problems and pushed the products down the road to ensure a quality product....i've been buying HP for a long time and never had an issue
  5. #5  
    I don't mean to jack your thread, but I was about to start the same thread, and why do two? I agree with you (more or less). But there is even more to it. Even as of the announcement, this phone was a bit behind the curve. For starters, in terms of processing cores, 2 is in fact better than one. Especially when those two also have really good embedded graphics processing helping them out, ala Tegra 2. The big problem with the summer launch isn't dual cores, it's the promise of quad cores by the end of the summer. This thing would have been a touch behind the curve (but not badly) had it been launched the day after it was announced. By the time it hits the market, phones ready to blow it away will be just around the bend.

    Not only this phone, by the end of summer, phones will be potentially faster than the touchpad. Of course, this presumes a lot. Tegra 3 will have to be a little bit more on schedule than 2 was, but I would bet they do a better job this time around. And while you are right that this is a very efficient OS, there are other very efficient operating systems out there. Case in point is my phone. I wasn't able to stick with the original pre as long as some other Sprint users, and I reluctantly jumped ship. I now have a Samsung Epic 4g. While the TouchWiz interface supplied by Samsung is god-awful, the Android community has a massive number of developers with a pile of custom roms for every phone. I am running Frankenstein Froyo, a rom developed by one guy. Not a team at Samsung with billions of dollars, just a dude. But it's blazingly fast, more stable than the actual Samsung build, and gets monumentally better battery life. Android is open. So you get a great development community.

    And all of this skirts the fact that you simply must make compromises purchasing webOS hardware. You just do. First and foremost, WHY DON'T YOU PUT A DAMN SD SLOT IN THESE PHONES (not to mention TP)? There isn't enough local storage to not offer this. And I know, I know, "Use the cloud." Well, first of all, I am on Sprint. And what if I don't have a 4G connection and I want to listen to all of my lossless audio rips? Sprint's 3G network isn't fast enough to stream it. Neither is Verizon's, for that matter. So they have a smart system that will store some of my music locally. Well, I want ALL of my music locally. I am tired of there not being a good option to do this. I still have to carry a separate MP3 player, which is just absurd. You hype up that the TP will have "Beats" audio. If you are going to try to pass off something as having great audio, you had better be able to play my entire collection of lossless rips. But they wouldn't fit on the local storage, and good luck streaming that.

    And what about 4G? Won't work on Sprint/Verizon 4G, at least not yet. As the FCC revealed no WiMax or LTE antenna. This has been defended in the Pre 3 section, but it is a compromise nonetheless. You don't want to use 4G? Fine, but my current phone operates on 4G, and I use it as a wifi hotspot regularly. And in areas with 4G, it's nice to be able to take advantage of the extra speed. I should have that option, if you don't want to use 4G, that's fine, don't turn it on. But I would be necessarily downgrading if I were to make the jump back to a webOS phone.

    But hey, they fixed the camera, right? Not that they aren't a few years late doing so, but whatever.

    When I jumped to Android, I thought I would probably at the very least get the webOS tablet. That will still be the case, I will get a TP. But I really want to get a Pre3, but I have to make so many compromised to do so. It makes me sad. I have owned webOS, iOS, and Android devices, and dated crackberry users, so I have had plenty of experience with all of them. I firmly believe that webOS is the best operating system for phones today. Even my great custom rom can't stack up to the elegance with which webOS multi-tasks. You can't overstate how much more productive you can be with proper multi-tasking. However, the compromises in hardware make webOS a tough pill to swallow, when it should be easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    The relaunch of HP webOS is only just starting. I'm sorry to say, but yet more patience is required. I am still optimistic!
    Preaching patience in a market that is constantly changing is a fool's errand. Patience means that webOS falls further behind in what is fast becoming an impenetrable market. This is something that HP paid lip service to, saying that they know that the webOS product cycle simply hasn't been good enough, and then said that you would have to wait months to get a new phone. So they acknowledge that they can't afford to keep doing what they are doing, and in the next breadth say they are doing it again.

    WebOS will not survive unless changes in the product cycle are made, and they must be made very quickly.
  6. #6  
    Sorry, but all this whining about hardware specs is driving me batty.

    Hardware specs, after a certain functional point, are just fan-boi "mine is bigger than yours" nonsense.

    The HP product doesn't have to have the highest res screen, twelve cameras, a six-core processor, etc. It just has to provide a good *experience.*

    Those Android phones with all that fast hardware run an incredibly lousy OS. Owners can brag about their twelve-core processors and two terrabyte storage, but they cannot claim to have a usable, enjoyable product.

    I'd rather HP focus on the experience than on worthless hardware specs.
  7. sjaakb's Avatar
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    #7  
    4G is not asking for much a this time, don't you? It's a part of a usable enjoyable experience.......can be productive as well.
    Last time I looked I there was not TP or Pre3 on any retailers' shelves.
    @ this moment HPalm does NOT offer an enjoyable experience unless you are a 9 year old girl or Jon "Pebbles" Rubinstein.
  8. #8  
    specs are important. try buying a car without knowing if its a two door or four door, if its a four cylinder or eight cylinder, if its...
  9. klynn's Avatar
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    #9  
    I do agree with the OP that HP is repeating the bad precedent of Palm by announcing the new products too far in advance of their release to maintain the excitement and anticipation. With very little information since then it's too easy to get distracted or enticed or enticed by other shiny new toys. I'll admit that I've been tempted by the iPhone 4 now that it's on Verizon.

    But while specs and apps aren't all that important to me, operating systems are and for me webOS is the best. So I'll wait for the Pre3, but I do have concerns about how HP is handling the launch. Hopefully once they get over this transition w/Palm hump they'll function more efficiently (like Apple).
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Sorry, but all this whining about hardware specs is driving me batty.

    Hardware specs, after a certain functional point, are just fan-boi "mine is bigger than yours" nonsense.

    The HP product doesn't have to have the highest res screen, twelve cameras, a six-core processor, etc. It just has to provide a good *experience.*

    Those Android phones with all that fast hardware run an incredibly lousy OS. Owners can brag about their twelve-core processors and two terrabyte storage, but they cannot claim to have a usable, enjoyable product.

    I'd rather HP focus on the experience than on worthless hardware specs.
    Hey Pot, I know I am the kettle that you are calling black, but this post reeks of fan-boyism. FYI, I am not a "fan-boi." I acknowledge just how great webOS is, and I agree that it's better than Android, but to call Android "lousy" is laughable. With Android you make some sacrifice for a slightly inferior OS, but far better hardware, better hardware cycles, and an insane developer community with more applications. With webOS you get a superior user "experience" so long as don't include the hardware in the experience. Which is a stretch. But why are you defending a company that is leaving out functionality? Nobody but a fan-boi would do such a thing. It doesn't make sense.

    EDIT: They *** out fan-boi without the "-"?
    Last edited by reggieb; 05/14/2011 at 04:01 PM.
    Blasphemous webOS fan, using Android (with a big phone buying problem)
  11.    #11  
    Simply put, webOS will not sustain itself on it's current users. You can sit here and tell HP that all you want is good user experience and you will buy their product etc. That's great, but HP needs to sell a lot lot lot more than everyone that's currently using a pre.

    It's already way behind in the smartphone race, it's just playing catchup now. Lack of users = lack of developers. Lack of developers = lack of apps, and lack of apps = lack of sales.

    Sorry but Hardware and software counts here when taking the millions and millions of GENERAL USERS into account, not the handful hundreds or thousands of precentral members. Hey, I understand that webOS doesn't need dual core, and I'll prolly buy the pre3 and use it till webOS goes under (at this speed, it will), and I'll simply move on to something else. It's just how life is.
    But take your average off the street consumer. large screens, high resolutions, slim profiles, 8MP cameras, 12MP cameras, 3D cameras, 3D screens, Dual core processing, extremely fast graphics, games, movies, large storage space, expandable storage, hundereds of thousands of apps, hundereds add daily (MOST OF THIS HAS COME TO MARKET AFTER HP ANNOUNCEMENT!)

    Then you have the veer and Pre3.

    The argument is not if I want all this hardware, I really don't. I think the pre3 is fine... but people with my thought are a rarity, and trust me, you don't RARELY want to sell your phone if you're HP.

    yah... HP, you'll sell hundreds and maybe thousands of them. woot woot.

    HP Veer launches tomorrow. Why isn't HP up AT&T's *** about having an announcement on their website at least?


    agh, im sooo freaking disappointed.
    Last edited by sdguy101; 05/14/2011 at 02:12 PM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by sdguy101 View Post
    Simply put, webOS will not sustain itself on it's current users. You can sit here and tell HP that all you want is good user experience and you will buy their product etc. That's great, but HP needs to sell a lot lot lot more than everyone that's currently using a pre.

    It's already way behind in the smartphone race, it's just playing catchup now. Lack of users = lack of developers. Lack of developers = lack of apps, and lack of apps = lack of sales.

    Sorry but Hardware and software counts here when taking the millions and millions of GENERAL USERS into account, not the handful hundreds or thousands of precentral members. Hey, I understand that webOS doesn't need dual core, and I'll prolly buy the pre3 and use it till webOS goes under (at this speed, it will), and I'll simply move on to something else. It's just how life is.
    But take your average off the street consumer. large screens, high resolutions, slim profiles, 8MP cameras, 12MP cameras, 3D cameras, 3D screens, Dual core processing, extremely fast graphics, games, movies, large storage space, expandable storage, hundereds of thousands of apps, hundereds add daily (MOST OF THIS HAS COME TO MARKET AFTER HP ANNOUNCEMENT!)

    Then you have the veer and Pre3.

    The argument is not if I want all this hardware, I really don't. I think the pre3 is fine... but people with my thought are a rarity, and trust me, you don't RARELY want to sell your phone if you're HP.

    yah... HP, you'll sell hundreds and maybe thousands of them. woot woot.

    HP Veer launches tomorrow. Why isn't HP up AT&T's *** about having an announcement on their website at least?


    agh, im sooo freaking disappointed.
    So may webos fans are just in denial about how bad the situation is.....in 2 years we've managed 3% of the market and its decreasing. In about 3-4 years, apple and android have the majority of the market and are GAINING. Its about momentum. They started off doing something right, and they are going to KEEP doing those things. Its hard to stop momentum after its been going for this long. Best of luck to HP tho
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  13. RafRol's Avatar
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    #13  
    The average off the street consumer? Pray tell us of that demographic. Because I'm no expert.

    Most every smart phone user I know cares about what they can do with their phone, not the clock speed or the amount of RAM/ROM.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by RafRol View Post
    The average off the street consumer? Pray tell us of that demographic. Because I'm no expert.

    Most every smart phone user I know cares about what they can do with their phone, not the clock speed or the amount of RAM/ROM.
    Really? then why isn't the Pre/pixi line dominating the market? Because you can do a LOT with webOS.

    iOS has hardly changed since it's release. it's the same user interface with minor improvements over time (improvements which previous phones already had like mms). What has changed more dramatically is the hardware. A lot of improvements to the iOS came from the hardware. Faster CPU/more ram allowed it to have multi-tasking (Why the first gen iphone doesn't support it). Front facing camera allowed it to have facetime. The extremely HIGH RES screen is HUGE selling point of the phone, and biggest of all is the Appstore.

    What you can do with your phone DEPENDS on the hardware your phone has.

    My point wasn't that the SPEED and RAM are advertised to the regular consumer, but the fact that the FEATURES that hardware allows is advertised to the consumer.

    Take the Samsung infuse launching at the same time as the veer. A behemoth 4.5" super Amoled Plus screen that looks gorgeous (seen it first hand), rear facing camera that takes excellent shots, front facing camera. Back to that huge screen for movies, screen's a great complement to newly launched Netflix App for Android and the MOVIES rentals announced by Google at I/O. Do you see where I'm going.
    Local trip AT&T showed promo material everywhere for it, sample units on the floor already.

    Not a single VEER promo, not even a demo unit. Nothing.

    Even though the infuse is priced at double the price of veer, it's gong to outsell the veer. Why? because Android is just too strong right now, so is Samsung.

    PALM lost the battle, HP is now in the process of losing it.

    I think the biggest mistake PALM made was making Jon R. the CEO. He's an engineer, a product manager. NOT CEO caliber. His lack of expertise in that department, his single minded vision was the demise of PALM. He SHOULD have known better while working with Steve Jobs.

    Steve Jobs is a marketing savant, he can't make a product if his life depended on it, I'm sure of it. But he has a knack for finding the people who can, making them work, and doing an excellent job and making people want to buy it. He's good at it. He can take a dump right in front of everyone, paint it white and half the crowd would go nuts and pay a premium for it.

    I am no way insisting we all just move to something else, I myself will already get a Pre3. But I don't have to be a fan-boy and defend the perpetrators that are ruining a great product, which is webOS.
    Last edited by sdguy101; 05/14/2011 at 04:52 PM.
  15. #15  
    I don't think AT&T even knows they're launching the Veer. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    We always prefer that people donate in response to tangible items they can use today, rather than for intangible promises about the future that may or may not be possible to achieve.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeeeee View Post
    I don't think AT&T even knows they're launching the Veer. lol
    lol, prolly not. HP has NO mindshare in the phone market. None of my friends even KNEW HP was making phones....I brought up the veer and the pre3 coming out this summer and my friends were like ????????????????????????

    They DO know about HTC, Samsung, Apple, Motorola, because they see ads alllll the time.
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  17. #17  
    sdguy: Preach it brother. Despite everything, I still really want a Pre3. But man I can't figure out why they have made some of the decisions they have.
    Blasphemous webOS fan, using Android (with a big phone buying problem)
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by reggieb View Post
    sdguy: Preach it brother. Despite everything, I still really want a Pre3. But man I can't figure out why they have made some of the decisions they have.
    I'm trying. I'm a business grad, been around many startups that have flourished or are on way there. I wouldn't say I know all the INS and OUTs but I can tell you, that whatever HP is doing is wrong and that's just from an outsider point of view, I can't imagine the hell that's going on internally.

    I really don't understand how these execs are getting paid millions and millions, have tons of resources at their hands, years of experience, access to people who have years of experience... HP is NOT a small company who doesn't have cash. It costs money to make money.

    Leave Jon with his team, let him design/engineer. Find a competant marketing team, infiltrate the already saturated market (which is VERY hard to do at this point).

    If Palm had done this 2 years ago when the market was young and still maturing, I have NO DOUBT in my mind it would have been a huge success. Instead they made an engineer the CEO of the company who has been designing hardware his whole life (macs, imacs, ipod), and expected him to come up with the plans to sell it too.
    When they should have let him run his team, focus JUST on that, and had someone else do the day to day CEO stuff, like a REAL CEO caliber exec.
    And then, hire a half decent marketing team, not even decent, half decent would have been ok too. But instead they got lowest of the lowest caliber team to scare the shiznit out of everyone. like HOW THE FUDGE does this (can't post link to creepy dejavu pre ad w/ creepy lady due to post count limit) have anything to do with the awesomeness of webOS?

    Every single thing they could do wrong, not only did they do wrong, but did it worse. Now it's HP's turn.

    I'm just ranting that maybe some poor soul from HP/Palm division will read it and maybe stop sitting on their laurels.

    That's all.

    I may have forgot mention this, I'm still gonna go pick up a Veer in the AM too. I'm prolly going to be out $53($35 restocking fee, $18 upgrade fee...Don't get me started on that) for trying it out for 30 days(sorry HP, if it was a Pre3, I'd keep it), but Still would like to get a feel on HOW much HP is actually improving (if at all). Plus i'm a phone addict.
    Last edited by sdguy101; 05/14/2011 at 05:28 PM.
  19. RafRol's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by sdguy101 View Post
    My point wasn't that the SPEED and RAM are advertised to the regular consumer, but the fact that the FEATURES that hardware allows is advertised to the consumer.
    I don't recall you talking about features:

    Quote Originally Posted by sdguy101 View Post
    But take your average off the street consumer. large screens, high resolutions, slim profiles, 8MP cameras, 12MP cameras, 3D cameras, 3D screens, Dual core processing, extremely fast graphics, games, movies, large storage space, expandable storage, hundereds of thousands of apps, hundereds add daily (MOST OF THIS HAS COME TO MARKET AFTER HP ANNOUNCEMENT!)
    The way I understand 'feature' is being able to do 'face-time' or email, you know, the software stuff. Once you started talking about megapixels, 3D, Dual core and resolutions, I thought about hardware. Maybe it's just me. The point I was trying to make is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by sdguy101 View Post
    The argument is not if I want all this hardware, I really don't. I think the pre3 is fine... but people with my thought are a rarity, and trust me, you don't RARELY want to sell your phone if you're HP.
    I think your thought isn't as rare is you make it out to be. I have been selling phones for various carriers via 2 different retailers in a demographically diverse county (welfare to old money, young and old) for 7 years. I can only remember one customer that asked me about processor specs. Customers always asked what they can and cannot do with phones. Yes, features are hardware dependent. No one is going to argue the contrary, but 99% of my costumers have no need to scan bar-codes or video conference (which the Pre3 will be capable of). The other 1% are people like us PreCentral readers, people who regularly read up on the latest and greatest of technology and actually exploit it, the techies or nerds if you will; more than likely the majority of remaining Pre/Pixi users. Which leads me to my next point:

    Quote Originally Posted by sdguy101 View Post
    Really? then why isn't the Pre/pixi line dominating the market?
    Because of marketing?

    The only people interested in the Pre3, Veer, Touchpad, and WebOS are those in the know, like us. Those that don't know, don't know because of the lack of marketing. It is not because of underwhelming hardware or a lack of applications that HP will fail, but because of marketing, which you pointed out a little more obviously than the discussion about features. On that we can agree on.
    Last edited by RafRol; 05/15/2011 at 03:15 AM.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  20. HomeyJay's Avatar
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    #20  
    Personally, I love WebOS but the level of ignorance of it amongst the phone-buying public and businesses is staggering. The company I work for is trying to force us all to use Android phones to 'standardise internal support' but when I went over to IT to ask them why my Pre+ wouldn't fit into their plans, I could have been talking Mandarin Chinese to them! They loved the way it worked ("flickey cards") as a momentary diversion and that's all!

    I think HP really have their work cut out for themselves, thanks to Palm's woeful historical marketing efforts. Good luck to them, and they're going to need it..

    It's a real shame because everyone've showed the phone to, absolutely loves it. Even my 15 year old daughter was so impressed that she bought one straight away. Now that's really saying something.
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