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  1.    #1  
    I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, or if I'm going to say or ask anything that hasn't come up before, but, are we devotees of WebOS tilting at windmills?

    You can look at this on several levels, not in any particular order:

    1) HP/Palm dragging their heels for SOOO long.

    2) The established strength of both Android and IOS to that end...

    3) Public and develop interest (there was just an article published on this sight the other day, indicating that WebOS isn't even on the public or developer radar. A programmer friend of mine has suggested that "the world doesn't need another mobile operating system. It has Android and IOS, and those are the ones that developers consider lucrative. Why would they take a risk with WebOS?"

    4) There is a dearth of new 1.2 to 1.5Ghz dual core devices with 1GB of RAM. And, it has been suggested, at least on the Android front, that software over the next year will be tweaked to take advantage of this firepower. The Pre 3 is a single core, 512K RAM device. Assuming it finally comes to a service provider near you, it may be tomorrows OS, but it's yesterdays hardware. to that end...

    5) (Back to developers) If there is a hope of luring developers over to WebOS, doesn't it make sense that those developers should see a competitive correlation between WebOS devices and Android devices to give them a reason to choose one over the other? Or, at least, to convince them that it is worth writing for multiple platforms, because WebOS devices will have what it takes to carve out market share? If many of the new Android devices pack twice the fire power of the Pre 3, that may be a deal breaker for many developers.

    6) HP has been touted as a good hardware company, but NOT a good marketing company. And WebOS needs BOTH.

    Don't get me wrong. I love WebOS and I have a spare Pre for when mine ultimately dies. And, I'm REALLY hoping that Sprint ultimately gets a WebOS device so I don't have to make the hard leap to Android. But, with so many dual core, 1GB RAM devices coming out now, cross-provider, it's hard to say that a device with essentially, half that power, coming out in another 3-4 months, will open to the public fanfare that we all hope for.

    Ultimately, WebOS needs what it needed to begin with...

    1) Amazing pre-release marketing a la iPhone, that successfully creates product knowledge AND drives interest.

    2) An app store fully stocked and ready to roll from day one (which depends entirely upon developer interest.

    3) Killer hardware to match the amazing OS.

    Is this what we have to look forward to? Or will we have more of the greatest OS nobody cares about?

    Thanks for reading.
    "If you can't view and manage multiple apps, via multiple open windows, side-by-side, it's not multi-tasking, PERIOD." - Me
  2. #2  
    I refuse to answer until HP has actually released a device, and gone through a product update cycle. Patience!
  3. #3  
    Well if HP doesn't get it together or launch the Pre 3 on Verizon, I will jump ship to iOS and the Iphone 5 this fall. My Pre Plus is hanging on with 2.1 but WebOS seems dead for now. I really think HP screwed up waiting so long to launch new product and cancelling the 2.0 update for the current user base.
  4. #4  
    I'm jumping to the new Evo coming out this summer. I would really like to stay with Webos, but even with a new hardware coming out.... it'll still take 6-12 months before apps start coming in and more features are added (if it even happens). If I would have gotten 2.0 on my pre, i would've stayed around, but honestly....I'm bored right now.
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  5. #5  
    None of those things matter to me, BUT, where can I go and get a 1.5GHz device running a smartphone OS RIGHT NOW? By summer's end maybe?

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  6. klynn's Avatar
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    #6  
    Pelikan3,

    I have all the same concerns and fears that you expressed. I just don't feel that HP is committed to the phones based on their slow roll-out of the Pre 3. I don't know, just getting a bad vibe about it.

    I've looked at the iPhone 4 which I can upgrade to in July. I cringe at the idea of going to Apple but really, it's a fine phone, does everything I need it to, and will be available when I'm eligible to upgrade. It's almost stupid not to make the switch.

    Really wishing that HP surprises us in the next 3 month and produces (and exceeds) on all the promises, but honestly I'm not holding out much hope. I hope I'm wrong.....
  7. #7  
    I'd just remind folks of the state of Apple, mid to late '90s. Everyone thought they were going down for the count. But - they had the better idea, and woke back up.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    I'd just remind folks of the state of Apple, mid to late '90s. Everyone thought they were going down for the count. But - they had the better idea, and woke back up.
    This isn't the 90s and we tend to upgrade our phones every two years. I love the WebOS, but my Pre doesn't do all the things or have the convenience of the apps that I had on my Treo. I'm not willing to hope that they will appear in the next 3, 6, or 9 months. There are some apps on the Pre that made my Pre experience unbelievable. I'm hoping to come back to WebOS, on the phone, in two years when I upgrade again. I also hope that the TouchPad has Quicken so that I'll have an excuse to buy it. I'm staying until the end of June and then I'm making a decision.
  9. #9  
    at the end of the day, cellphones are converging on max screen sizes that will fit in a pocket, whatever the latest cpus are, and whatever the latest network speed is. There is nothing surprisingly new on the phone horizon. (3D? Haha) the only thing left to differentiate the masses is the OS and apps. I'm confident webos will get out of beta by 2012 and can gain market share in the long run.

    The big question marks are getting developers to come before significant market share is realized (payola?) and get some marketshare before all the businesses choose successor platform to blackberry.
  10.    #10  
    Hate to disagree, but new dual core, 1.X Ghz, 1GB RAM phones are already out (LG Optimus for 1), and they are meeting with stellar ratings. The 3D tech in LG and in the HTC EVO are also getting great reviews for quality and the dimension they add. Not so much leaping out of the screen, but hovering over, to give greater depth, the 3D is considered comparable with Super Amoled screens, but with that extra level of detail.

    So, yes, software and OS are big diferntiators, but 1Ghz phones like Iphone 4 and Nexus S are already being considered last years tech. Google comparisons between the EVO 3D and the Nexus S 4G from Sprint, or simply look up dual core, 1Ghz smartphones to see.

    The specs I have read on the Pre 3 state single core, 512k RAM. In August or so, if it actually comes out by then, and IF it comes to Sprint (I don't love any OS enough to leave and double my monthly bill), it will be arriving on the heals of significantly more powerful devices. And, it's not taking developers that long to optimize software, and come out with OS updates, that take advantage of those specs. Almost all the dual core phones are being released with Android 2.3 Gingerbread, which does provide serious performance to go with the power.

    I'm just saying that HP has WAY more than just screen real estate and an OS that is needed to differentiate itself from the very established and robust competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurgling View Post
    at the end of the day, cellphones are converging on max screen sizes that will fit in a pocket, whatever the latest cpus are, and whatever the latest network speed is. There is nothing surprisingly new on the phone horizon. (3D? Haha) the only thing left to differentiate the masses is the OS and apps. I'm confident webos will get out of beta by 2012 and can gain market share in the long run.

    The big question marks are getting developers to come before significant market share is realized (payola?) and get some marketshare before all the businesses choose successor platform to blackberry.
  11.    #11  
    I agree. I also never saw HP as the savior of Palm. Just another corporate raider looking to obtain something it felt was of value. I believe their first answer, when they said they saw WebOS's potential for printers and tablets (sorry, but no one is going to dent the iPad market anymore than they have the iPod market), and they are "not in the business to make smartphones". I think their move towards smartphones came on the heals of realizing who their established WebOS market was, and a desire to not lose that market before they knew what to do with us.

    So, sincere they are not. And, I don't trust that they have my best interests at heart or that they will establish market share, and a regular proliferation of new devices every few months, a la HTC, that is needed to show me that they do. So, much as I love WebOS, if Sprint gets a new device, I expect it to be right back where I started, with better than 2 year old tech, and no more software updates before Sprint, Palm's best, and totally shafted provider, gets another WebOS device.

    Quote Originally Posted by klynngullo View Post
    Pelikan3,

    I have all the same concerns and fears that you expressed. I just don't feel that HP is committed to the phones based on their slow roll-out of the Pre 3. I don't know, just getting a bad vibe about it.

    I've looked at the iPhone 4 which I can upgrade to in July. I cringe at the idea of going to Apple but really, it's a fine phone, does everything I need it to, and will be available when I'm eligible to upgrade. It's almost stupid not to make the switch.

    Really wishing that HP surprises us in the next 3 month and produces (and exceeds) on all the promises, but honestly I'm not holding out much hope. I hope I'm wrong.....
  12. #12  
    Have you heard about the new "Iphone"? Apple may mean well but they don't have a snowball's chance in hell.

    Apple is way too late to the game. Smart devices have existed for nearly 10 years, and only now are they deciding to play. DOA.

    Windows Mobile, PalmOS and BlackBerry are already well-established and have millions of users.

    WinMo and Palm have hundreds of thousands of apps each, something Apple won't ever be able to catch up. Why do we need another OS if we already have WinMo, Palm and BlackBerry? It's nonsense.

    You can't expect to win customers if you have inferior hardware without even an inkling of 3G and inferior software without copy and paste or even the ability to run an app in the background. It doesn't even have the best camera in the market. Yesterday's hardware and yesterday's software. It might have made an OK XDA two years ago, but now?

    Today, in 2007, the Smartphone wars are over. Surely you don't think a newcomer in this market can overcome the deeply entrenched operating systems that completely dominate it? Especially not with such a weaksauce attempt as this "Iphone". You're just an unrealistic dreamer. Windows Mobile has a market share of 25% - you can't defeat a platform like that anymore. If somebody tells you that things can change, they're lying or dumb. Tomorrow will be like yesterday, always.

    And I heard there's a new XDA coming next month that will make the Iphone even more obsolete. If they don't follow up with more Iphones with more form factors (EPIC FAIL to go without a keyboard - all the popular XDAs and Palms and BlackBerries have one! You can't do something unpopular and expect it to become popular!) on more carriers, NOW and not just "in the coming months", this venture is completely dead. Every day that passes without a competitive Iphone WITH 3G!! and not a last-generation radio will only make Windows Mobile's dominance greater.
    Last edited by GodShapedHole; 05/01/2011 at 04:54 AM.
  13. #13  
    Doc, ya gotta stop driving that Delorean...it's back to 2007 again!

    -- Marty McFly
    Last edited by Rockbeast; 05/01/2011 at 07:59 AM.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    I agree. I also never saw HP as the savior of Palm. Just another corporate raider looking to obtain something it felt was of value. I believe their first answer, when they said they saw WebOS's potential for printers and tablets (sorry, but no one is going to dent the iPad market anymore than they have the iPod market), and they are "not in the business to make smartphones". I think their move towards smartphones came on the heals of realizing who their established WebOS market was, and a desire to not lose that market before they knew what to do with us.

    So, sincere they are not. And, I don't trust that they have my best interests at heart or that they will establish market share, and a regular proliferation of new devices every few months, a la HTC, that is needed to show me that they do. So, much as I love WebOS, if Sprint gets a new device, I expect it to be right back where I started, with better than 2 year old tech, and no more software updates before Sprint, Palm's best, and totally shafted provider, gets another WebOS device.
    Actually, I think HP will do well with the WebOS Tablet market and the phone market. But they will make well thought out considered moves instead of rushing things to market because people are clamoring for their new device. Also, the WebOS market isn't their bread and butter. This appears to be an unforgiving market and HP does not want to dive in and have the issues that caused the demise of Palm.

    I enjoy WebOS and gave up my Treo, because more and more companies I did business with stop making ungrades for palmOS. I expected those companies to do business with the new WebOS especially since some of them were shown to be partners out of the gate.

    There are many things that are significantly better on WebOS and when more of the apps I want are available, I'll be back. In the mobile industry, two years goes by fast.

    I'm going back to VZW so I'll probably get an iPhone, to get me by while I wait. With this community, I'll be able to see what's going on with the new HP devices. In addition, if places like audible Laridian (bible), Amazon (kindle), banks, and FatSecret start popping up with a WebOS app, I'll know that I can use an Phone OS that I like w/o giving up convenience.
  15. japark's Avatar
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    #15  
    Apple, being Apple, can make a success of a closed OS. Apple will always have their hard core "Apple only" followers. Apple also knows how to market and how to keep new hardware in the pipeline. They can be expected to continue to succeed.

    Microsoft, with their new (not desktop) UI, can garner a significant share of the market. Microsoft will always find market share because they have tremendous resources and they know how to market.

    Google is becoming dominant because they have provided the Android OS to multiple manufacturers. Those manufactures can push their best technologies to market with minimal cost on the OS because of Android and they have taken advantage of this.

    HP/Palm do have loyal users, but their number does not compare with Apple. HP/Palm does not have leading edge hardware nor have they shown an ability to keep new technology in the pipeline. WebOS is arguably the best OS for cell phones, but only HP/Palm has it and HP/Palm does not have the hardware to promote it nor do they show any propensity to develop such hardware.

    I much prefer WebOS and use an original Sprint Palm Pre. But I cannot see how HP/Palm can succeed in the cell phone market without sharing the OS to other manufacturers and with yesterday's technology.

    I am beginning to believe that HP is only running in place with WebOS while they seek other uses/devices for WebOS.

    Palm kept faltering and coming back with something better. WebOS is Palm's best effort, but it looks as if it is about to falter and not come back. :-(
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by japark View Post
    Apple, being Apple, can make a success of a closed OS. Apple will always have their hard core "Apple only" followers. Apple also knows how to market and how to keep new hardware in the pipeline. They can be expected to continue to succeed.
    . . .

    I much prefer WebOS and use an original Sprint Palm Pre. But I cannot see how HP/Palm can succeed in the cell phone market without sharing the OS to other manufacturers and with yesterday's technology.

    . . . WebOS is Palm's best effort, but it looks as if it is about to falter and not come back. :-(
    The smart phone market is climbing and many people have given up their land-phones and only use mobiles (who saw that coming). People want portable computing and smartphones fill that niche. I don't think HP is going to give up on the mobile platform when it has so much potential. They simply aren't doing it on their customer's time-table.
  17. japark's Avatar
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    #17  
    I don't think HP is going to give up on the mobile platform when it has so much potential. They simply aren't doing it on their customer's time-table.
    In the technology race, late is generally as good as never. HP needs to have a time table and they need to get in the game.

    I would like to believe they have a game plan, but if they do, they certainly don't have any intention of sharing it.

    App developers migrate to the OS's which provide potential. With little visible potential, WebOS apps will begin to dry up.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Have you heard about the new "Iphone"? Apple may mean well but they don't have a snowball's chance in hell.

    Apple is way too late to the game. Smart devices have existed for nearly 10 years, and only now are they deciding to play. DOA.

    Windows Mobile, PalmOS and BlackBerry are already well-established and have millions of users.

    WinMo and Palm have hundreds of thousands of apps each, something Apple won't ever be able to catch up. Why do we need another OS if we already have WinMo, Palm and BlackBerry? It's nonsense.

    You can't expect to win customers if you have inferior hardware without even an inkling of 3G and inferior software without copy and paste or even the ability to run an app in the background. It doesn't even have the best camera in the market. Yesterday's hardware and yesterday's software. It might have made an OK XDA two years ago, but now?

    Today, in 2007, the Smartphone wars are over. Surely you don't think a newcomer in this market can overcome the deeply entrenched operating systems that completely dominate it? Especially not with such a weaksauce attempt as this "Iphone". You're just an unrealistic dreamer. Windows Mobile has a market share of 25% - you can't defeat a platform like that anymore. If somebody tells you that things can change, they're lying or dumb. Tomorrow will be like yesterday, always.

    And I heard there's a new XDA coming next month that will make the Iphone even more obsolete. If they don't follow up with more Iphones with more form factors (EPIC FAIL to go without a keyboard - all the popular XDAs and Palms and BlackBerries have one! You can't do something unpopular and expect it to become popular!) on more carriers, NOW and not just "in the coming months", this venture is completely dead. Every day that passes without a competitive Iphone WITH 3G!! and not a last-generation radio will only make Windows Mobile's dominance greater.
  19. #19  
    I'm not tilting at windmills. I'm just a spectator in this game, not a contestant. If HPalm manages to put out a product that catches my eye, good for them. If not, no bother to me. I'd say it was merely dumb luck that they have me in the first place, thanks solely to the Pixi's form factor.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by pelikan3 View Post
    And, I don't trust that they have my best interests at heart or that they will establish market share, and a regular proliferation of new devices every few months, a la HTC, that is needed to show me that they do.
    I'm sorry but I just had to laugh when I read this bit. So the only thing anyone needs to do to have your best interests at heart is to come out with new hardware every few months? First, you don't upgrade your phone every few months, do you? (If you do, I want to work where you work, seems they pay well.) Second, what about when they track your location without telling you about it? Is it OK because they released new hardware every few months, keeping your "best interests" at heart?



    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
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