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  1. #21  
    actually, flash does work decently on an overclocked Pre+ on 2.1.0....but back to the OP. I've heard it explained many times(there are tons of threads on boot time here) that the linux kernel is actually loaded pretty fast and then what takes so long is loading Palm(HP)'s proprietary luna manager. For GPL compliance I assume, it is loaded seperately from the Linux kernel.
    ᛖᚲ ᚹᛁᛏᚲᛁ ᚱᛁᛊᛏ ᚱᚢᚾᚠᚱ
  2. #22  
    hardware limtations.. Pre- on webOS 1.2 - 1.4.5 took 6 mins + to boot at stock speed, oc kernels improved that..
    pre2 with webOS 2.1 oc'd to 1.4gHz only takes 30 - 45 seconds to boot..
    am I missing something or is the answer obviosly hardware limitations.. It has nothing to do with webOS..
    sj
  3. #23  
    does it really matter? I mean really, have people become that impatient?

    or is it that people just look for something to complain about, and are never happy?

    the boot time really doesn't bother me one bit

    but it has increased significantly over the original pre versions
  4. #24  
    I'd say the sheer amount of Javascript code that it has to run. And 2.x has Javascript services as well.
  5. #25  
    I have to say I really don't mind the boot time for two reasons:

    1.) Everything works as soon as the main screen comes up. I'm sure some of us have experienced booting a computer and--even though the desktop is up and you can click on items--it takes FOREVER for the background processes to finish, and just because you've clicked on something, those processes have to finish before the system stops moving like molases. With webOS I know that if the screen is up, the phone is ready to go.

    2.) I just don't boot my phone that often.
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by katefields View Post
    I have to say I really don't mind the boot time for two reasons:

    1.) Everything works as soon as the main screen comes up. I'm sure some of us have experienced booting a computer and--even though the desktop is up and you can click on items--it takes FOREVER for the background processes to finish, and just because you've clicked on something, those processes have to finish before the system stops moving like molases. With webOS I know that if the screen is up, the phone is ready to go.

    2.) I just don't boot my phone that often.


    This is true, i was with an guy with an android the other day. it rebooted in about a minute or so, but then he could not do anything for about another minute on it because it was still loading apps/icons/shell, whatever. Kinda lame. Much like Win7, when you see the desktop (finally), you can actually start to do stuff instead of seeing the shell and still waiiting. (on webos I mean).
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    does it really matter? I mean really, have people become that impatient?

    or is it that people just look for something to complain about, and are never happy?

    the boot time really doesn't bother me one bit

    but it has increased significantly over the original pre versions
    In the case of both my girlfriend and myself, both on Pre- launch month phones, it matters a lot. Both of our phones have problems with the GPS losing satellite connection. The only way to get it working again is to restart the phone. We both have had the misfortune of needing to unexpectedly use the GPS because of some unforeseen wreck, wrong turn, missed exit, etc. and then having to drive along blindly while waiting for what seems like an eternity for the phone to restart.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Caromsoft View Post
    In the case of both my girlfriend and myself, both on Pre- launch month phones, it matters a lot. Both of our phones have problems with the GPS losing satellite connection. The only way to get it working again is to restart the phone. We both have had the misfortune of needing to unexpectedly use the GPS because of some unforeseen wreck, wrong turn, missed exit, etc. and then having to drive along blindly while waiting for what seems like an eternity for the phone to restart.
    This has happened to me SO many times. Everytime it does, I cant help but swear to myself and say "Why do i still have this phone if it doesnt do what i want???" *sigh*
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by cnote1287 View Post
    Ok heres my question on this....WHY does the entire filesystem have to be rescanned? Is this like windows when it scans sometimes during bootup "Some of your files need to be scanned for consistency...."???
    It's because users have a tendency to cause instantaneous catastrophic power failures by pulling the battery with doing a shutdown first.

    -- Rod
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    It's because users have a tendency to cause instantaneous catastrophic power failures by pulling the battery with doing a shutdown first.

    -- Rod
    "Huff, puff! I shouldn't have to learn a key combination or press the power button just to switch off my phone! Pulling the battery worked just fine on my old RAZR so why can't this so-called "smartphone" do it??"
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    "Huff, puff! I shouldn't have to learn a key combination or press the power button just to switch off my phone! Pulling the battery worked just fine on my old RAZR so why can't this so-called "smartphone" do it??"
    It can do it, and that's why it has to do a filesystem check on each boot, cause people do it.

    -- Rod
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthRepublican View Post
    This is a serious problem and not just for webOS. A smartphone needs to be available to its user instantly. Most smartphones are relatively slow booting and this has gotten worse over the years. I remember people complaining about the Treo 680's almost sixty second boot up time five years ago. A lot of this is the fact that smartphone computing is relatively young as compared to desktop computing. Windows used to take about a minute to boot up but Windows 7 and Snow Leopard can take as little as twenty seconds to boot -- less if you are booting off a solid-state drive. The next big challenge for smartphone makers will be to optimize their devices for speed.
    That's actually almost a non-problem.
    While I agree that a smartphone needs to be instantly available to its user - there is rarely a reason to ever switch it off. And without switching it off - you don't have to boot and the boot time becomes moot.

    I always use Airplane mode in cinemas, etc... My Pre keeps going for weeks without booting it.

    Having said all that I always wondered why webos takes ages to boot.

    Modern full-blown Linux desktop distributions like Ubuntu can now boot in < 20 seconds (with the stated goal for Ubuntu on a netbook to boot in 10).
    And that's with a zillion device drivers and services that a smartphone with a small and unchangable set of components will never have to worry about.

    The linux kernel is highly customizable and already used in a large percentage of embedded devices (your router, DVR, modern TV, etc...). They custom compile a kernel for that particular device and get rid of all the stuff you only need on a full desktop (where you can plug in any number of graphics cards, printers, storage devices, etc... ).

    The software stack (Linux, low level tools, webkit, javascript libs) even on Pre hardware should not even take close to the 3+ minutes it takes webos to boot. Something else is going on here.

    My sister got a first generation Netbook - eeepc 4G via ebay. CPU 633 MHz, 512 MB RAM, 4 GB SSD storage - so very close to Pre specs. Sure the eeepc has twice the RAM as the Pre- but the Ubuntu Netbook Remix I installed on that for her is a full desktop OS with way more drivers and services installed (and the 512 MB RAM models like the Pre Plus don't boot that much faaster AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK).
    That eeepc boots fairly quickly and she would would have Open Office running before my Pre finishes booting.

    TL;DR: Don't boot your Pre. And with Airplane Mode you rarely have to.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMist View Post
    I also have an old netbook loading Ubuntu UNR, which I assume also loads a pretty complete linux. This boots up in less than a minute, from a hard drive, which I assume is slower than SSD where webos gets it from.
    Smartphones don't have SSDs. They share basics of it (Flash chips), but so do USB sticks... Why are USB sticks extremely slow if they are like SSDs?! Well, that's easy. In order to achieve high read and write speeds data flows parallel. For this you need many chips (they often use 16 chips) and that's why the 40 GB Value SSD from Intel/Kingston and the like are slower than the 80 GB counterparts: they have less chips and thus less channels. Just recently OCZ caused quite a stir when they released a Vertex 2 with the same capacity but less chips (Vertex 2 with 25 nm Flash vs 34 nm Flash). Nobody knew about this and customers were surprised to find their drives performing worse than expected.

    Now, back to phones: due to space they seldom use more than one Flash-chip (in fact, I'd be surprised if there was a recent phone that did). On top of that the speed of a SSD depends vastly on the used controller and I doubt phones have a very fast controller with high IOPS.

    So no, the memory you find in your phone must not be faster than a regular HDD. Only thing that's for sure is that the access time is considerable less.
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