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  1. cgk
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       #1  
    So webOS is going to dual-boot on 100 million devices right?

    The only problem is - I can't find a single named individual from HP who actually says this, it seems to be simply inserted into coverage by tech journalists. In the original Business Weekly story, the phrase used was "in addition to" - this morphed in coverage to "Dual-boot" but with no attributable quotes.

    So help me solve the great dual boot mystery (NOTE: I'm interested in nailing down if it's real or not - not if people think it's a good idea) with quotes from named individuals not simply rehashed media reports. This is what the CTO had to say in the Seattle Times:


    Q: It sounds like a shift in your PC business to WebOS?

    A: The PCs and laptops, it will be a combination of taking the existing operating systems and bringing WebOS onto those platforms and making it universal across all of our footprint.

    Q: Will you use virtualization to run both Windows and WebOS on PCs?

    A: No, it's not virtualization. It's an integrated WebOS experience we're looking to bring.

    This is what Leo had to say at the Q&A yesterday (my transcription so no link):

    "There will be a beta version of WebOS running in a browser on PCs available at the end of the year. And you'll see us putting WebOS, on PCs, On Windows PCs I should add starting from that point onwards. We hope to reach a 100 million devices a year. We'll put the same technology on our printers, on our PCs, on touchpads, on smartphones, it will become a very massive very broad platform.

    Just to be absolutely clear, Microsoft is a great partner, Microsoft will remain a great partner. The way we have enabled our WebOS technology allows us to leverage the entire Microsoft ecosystem".

    None of this to me sounds like a dual-boot strategy, so put your caps on and help me find a quote or similar from a named individual at HP where they directly say or suggest that we are getting dual-boot.
    Last edited by CGK; 03/15/2011 at 09:01 AM.
  2. #2  
    I'm pretty sure they said yesterday that webOS would run on top of Windows, not "in addition to" Windows. I wonder if they have a transcript of the presentation yesterday...

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  3. #3  
    There are none, every single descriptions I have heard from HP and their people is that it is going to be integrated into Windows/PCs. The issue is people cant grasp the concept of an OS running in another OS with out being visualized or dual booted. but Webos is not your typical OS it is built on web technology which is already built into all modern operating systems. That is where all the confusion is coming from. If the knew and understood the technology behind WebOS they would not have made these statements. I discredit any blog or technology writer who talks about it being a dual boot. Obviously they arnt on top of webOS technology.
  4. #4  
    spend a little time looking at the hp-touchsmart UI. Not dual boot.

    look at the online dev environment. Not dual boot.

    look at the webOS emulator. Not dual boot.

    no reason to think that hp is talking about dual boot.

    the operative term is "webOS experience"
  5. #5  
    Can someone tell me what the difference is between "running on top of Windows" vs. "in addition to Windows" vs. "dual boot?"

    Nerd-wanna-be, here.... TIA.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by elpollodiablo1 View Post
    There are none, every single descriptions I have heard from HP and their people is that it is going to be integrated into Windows/PCs. The issue is people cant grasp the concept of an OS running in another OS with out being visualized or dual booted. but Webos is not your typical OS it is built on web technology which is already built into all modern operating systems. That is where all the confusion is coming from. If the knew and understood the technology behind WebOS they would not have made these statements. I discredit any blog or technology writer who talks about it being a dual boot. Obviously they arnt on top of webOS technology.
    How do you boot off of a Linux kernel without a VM?
  7. #7  
    I think they will make it run as a browser "plugin". Whether that's an actual plug or just a web app remains to be seen. It looks like Chrome is going to support native functionality in the near future, so that might allow Angry Birds you purchased in the catalog to run in the browser. Heck, the webOS team might even fork Chrome/Chromium to develop their own "browser", an environment for webOS on Windows.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    How do you boot off of a Linux kernel without a VM?
    Who said you have to boot off a linux kernel? That was the thinking I was talking about in my original post. There are parts of the OS that use the linux kernel which is mostly hardware based, but the majority of WebOS (the UI and Background services) is being ran through a webbrowers like interface(webkit), hence why the great majority of WebOS is controlled by javascript services, css and HTML. There are some Native services that HP will need to write\compile windows based versions of. one example is Luna, it will need to be able to run on Windows so those services LunaSysServices, LunaSysMgr, LunaDownloadMgr,etc... can run in the background on windows and interact with the rest of WebOS as if it was on the phone. SDK Apps should have no issues running on Windows platforms for the same reasons above. Actually Enyo run quite nicely in a webbrowser on any OS(I test on linux). The area that I see some issues is trying to get PDK apps to run in Windows considering they are all compiled for ARM processors.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Can someone tell me what the difference is between "running on top of Windows" vs. "in addition to Windows" vs. "dual boot?"

    Nerd-wanna-be, here.... TIA.
    Well "running on top of" and "in addition to" are not strong technical terms so it is kind of difficult to compare those two. so lets consider the 3 instances that I can think of.

    1. Virtual Machine - Running WebOS through a Virtual Machine (VM). What this does is emulates an operating system while you already have say windows loaded. so you will have Windows up and you will open the VM application and boot WebOS into a standalone environment that is basically separate from Windows. So the VM is like any other app in Windows except the app allows you to load an OS inside of it.

    2. Dual Boot - This requires you to have two different Operating system installed on your harddrive. so when you turn on your computer you have two options lets say Windows and WebOS. you can pick either one and it will load up. To get to the other one you will need to reboot your machine and select it. Dual Booting make the Operating systems even more separate from each other since you can not have them both running at the same time.

    3. Seamless Integration(I just made that name up) - This is taking one OS and integrating all/some the features of another OS into it. This really has never been done before at least not that I know of. This is probably easiest to explain in an example. So we have Windows and WebOS. Thinking of WebOS as a sort of windows manager(linux term might need to look it up) for the underlying Linux system. So the WebOS windows manager is written in web based code and technologies for the most part. These technologies runs on all major OSs. So they can take the code they used to create WebOS (windows manager) and apply it to a browseresque layer that allows the WebOS features to interact with Windows.

    Number 3 is more conceptual then reality but that is how I see the best way for HP to implement it. Obviously it is not as easy as I made it seem they do need to rewrite some native things to function on windows.

    Hopefully this helps and is not to confusing.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Can someone tell me what the difference is between "running on top of Windows" vs. "in addition to Windows" vs. "dual boot?"

    Nerd-wanna-be, here.... TIA.
    • running on top of Windows means that it boots windows, then you can run WebOS within Windows. no dual boot
    • Dual Boot means that either you have a choice of which operating system to boot to, or the system boots to one then can run the other (the difference here is that it would not still be running the first OS, it would be one or the other)
    • in addition to windows could realistically be either of those options
  11. #11  
    Thank you both for the explanations!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    • running on top of Windows means that it boots windows, then you can run WebOS within Windows. no dual boot
    • Dual Boot means that either you have a choice of which operating system to boot to, or the system boots to one then can run the other (the difference here is that it would not still be running the first OS, it would be one or the other)
    • in addition to windows could realistically be either of those options
    actually i believe that running on top of windows is more like the Touchsmart UI.. youre still in the windows environment. just like htc sense or samsung Touchwiz is a layer on top of android.

    and in addition to windows means that it boots windows, then you can run WebOS within Windows. no dual boot

    Dual Boot means that either you have a choice of which operating system to boot to, or the system boots to one then can run the other (the difference here is that it would not still be running the first OS, it would be one or the other)
  13. #13  
    so if it's going to run within a browser, it'll run in any PC not only HP ones, right?
    Long Time Palm and Sprint User!

    IIIxe, Tungsten T3, Samsung SPH-i500, Treo 700p, 755p, Centro, Palm Pre, Palm Pre+, 2.2.4 Franken Pre2 and a Touchpad!
  14. #14  
    it probably wont live in the browser exclusively, but if it did technically it probably would be possible to put it on other computers. Even if it isn't exclusively browser based, I bet hp would sell the install for other PCs.
  15. crabbz's Avatar
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    #15  
    I doubt it will use an off-the-shelf browser. My guess is they will have their own webOS environment using webkit plus whatever bits they need to support their APIs, but not a full blown browser. They won't want to depend on a 3rd party product.
  16. #16  
    Folks, you know Dell's Latitude-On? It's a mini Linux on a flash chip which can be booted beside Windows. No dual boot but an alternative mode of the notebook. I think HP is going to do the same with webOS.
  17. #17  
    Latitude ON is basically the same as dual boot except for it has its own dedicated hardware instead of using the computers hard drive and hardware to boot up. but it is in the same category as dual-booting in the fact that you cant use them both at the same time.
  18. #18  
    I would guess that since WebOS is completley based of web technology that any computer can handle, they could just create a WebOS application just like any other program on windows. It wouldn't really need to function or run as a seperate OS since windows is able to handle everything.

    However I would prefer dual boot, because it would be more convenient and quick, for things that don't need to start up windows. And didn't HP buy some company that made some instant-on technology?
  19. Kujila's Avatar
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    #19  
    I thought I read in ran in the browser on Windows?

    I hope it's like the pre-existing "instant on" technologies, aforementioned in this thread. Your laptop would have an "power on" button, and a smaller, yet equally accessible, "webOS on" button. Naturally, webOS on a Core i5 or something similar should be pretty zippy, especially if HP goes all out with hardware acceleration and the whole bit.

    webOS will be awesome on laptops, if pulled off right. My question is, do you use the mouse to use webOS? I imagine it would not be nearly as cool if you had to use the mouse to flip cards around.

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