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  1. cgk
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       #1  
    I'm not sure why developers would spend their limit resources on the shaky WebOS platform, which hasn't progressed much in two years, and as my colleague Galen Gruman noted, is a weak copy of iOS without the benefit of iTunes as a central console. Developers, by the way, have not embraced that other shaky HP venture -- touchscreen PCs -- and most of those who have are writing for kiosks, not smartphones or PCs.
    That's too many platforms. The mobile space is turning into a brutal game of musical chairs, and it won't be long before HP's chair disappears and Apotheker -- my Bozo of the Month -- falls on his ****.
    HP's WebOS Strategy: Don't Make Me Laugh - Page 2 - PCWorld
  2. #2  
    Having iTunes as a central control is a huge negative to me. I am glad webOS is not like that. It's annoying to me to have to use iTunes to update your phone, activate a new phone or download apps over 250 MBs.
  3. #3  
    I think the author means the iTunes store, not the desktop app.

    But writers can justifiably take shots like this all day long as long as HP continues to make half-hearted, detail-deficient "announcements". That's what uncertainty breeds.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I think the author means the iTunes store, not the desktop app.

    But writers can justifiably take shots like this all day long as long as HP continues to make half-hearted, detail-deficient "announcements". That's what uncertainty breeds.
    Hey, I can't blame anyone for being uncertain at this time, but WebOS is anything but "a weak copy of iOS".

    As far as developers go, many are starting to have a hard time making $ on iOS as it becomes saturated, and have been having trouble selling apps on Android since the beginning. IF WebOS does take of, it would be a good idea to be at the front of the pack.

    Personally, I'd like to see iOS, android, WP7, BB and WebOS each carve nice chunks out of the marketplace. It would keep everyone on their toes.
  5. #5  
    this dude has no idea what he is talking about. when webos starts shiping with laptop and netbook integration and people are just tapping their hp phones on the palm rest to transfer files, music, websites etc this will take off like you wont believe.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    Hey, I can't blame anyone for being uncertain at this time, but WebOS is anything but "a weak copy of iOS".

    As far as developers go, many are starting to have a hard time making $ on iOS as it becomes saturated, and have been having trouble selling apps on Android since the beginning. IF WebOS does take of, it would be a good idea to be at the front of the pack.

    Personally, I'd like to see iOS, android, WP7, BB and WebOS each carve nice chunks out of the marketplace. It would keep everyone on their toes.
    I want competition, too. I really do. But you don't want a platform of "refugee" developers who can't hack it on iOS and Android, and are using your platform to make a name for themselves. That's no good.

    You want their primary reason to be easy, public access to great development tools and hardware that inspires them. I'm still not seeing that. I'm seeing them leave due to lack of that.
  7. #7  
    whoah! All the des that read this thread have been called out as refugees that can't survive in the android or I'D world! Flames arriving in 3. 2.
  8. #8  
    1. Developers moving to webOS because they are no longer making as much money on other platforms doesn't make them refugees, it makes them smart business people.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I want competition, too. I really do. But you don't want a platform of "refugee" developers who can't hack it on iOS and Android, and are using your platform to make a name for themselves. That's no good.

    You want their primary reason to be easy, public access to great development tools and hardware that inspires them. I'm still not seeing that. I'm seeing them leave due to lack of that.
    just because a developer starts developing for a new platform doesn't mean they aren't capable of creating amazing software. how many developers "made a name for themselves" on iOS simply because they got there first? And i'm sure more often than not, developers make apps for other platforms because they see an opportunity for $, not inspiration.

    quite frankly, I don't care what a particular developers motivations are, as long as they're providing me with a great product.

    Besides some of the best ideas come from indie developers who don't have the resources or connections to get featured in Apples catalog over the goliaths. Calling them refugees is unnecessarily harsh (and pretty disrespectful IMO) . For all you know the people you don't want on your platform could be the ones building webOS experiences that iphone users wish they had.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    whoah! All the des that read this thread have been called out as refugees that can't survive in the android or I'D world! Flames arriving in 3. 2.
    Pffft. I said no such thing.
  11. #11  
    The writer of the article is an *****, Apple ******. That said, I'm super unimpressed with HP's progress on webOS, and I agree that webOS advancements have been extremely unimpressive over the past 1.5yrs. Still no voice commands for crying out loud. That's basic functionality.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by blue duck butter View Post
    1. Developers moving to webOS because they are no longer making as much money on other platforms doesn't make them refugees, it makes them smart business people.
    That remains to be seen. Where are the big success stories HP is trumpeting? Self Aware, Self Aware, Self Aware. I got that. But where are the other big stories to inspire developers to move?
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    just because a developer starts developing for a new platform doesn't mean they aren't capable of creating amazing software. how many developers "made a name for themselves" on iOS simply because they got there first? And i'm sure more often than not, developers make apps for other platforms because they see an opportunity for $, not inspiration.

    quite frankly, I don't care what a particular developers motivations are, as long as they're providing me with a great product.

    Besides some of the best ideas come from indie developers who don't have the resources or connections to get featured in Apples catalog over the goliaths. Calling them refugees is unnecessarily harsh (and pretty disrespectful IMO) . For all you know the people you don't want on your platform could be the ones building webOS experiences that iphone users wish they had.
    Arggggh. People are so hair trigger around here. Again, I called out no developer in particular because we're talking a hypothetical scenario in which a developer "having trouble" making money on iOS and Android is then motivated to develop for WebOS. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $the$ $leading$ $WebOS$ $developers$ $and$ $pretty$ $much$ $all$ $of$ $the$ $homebrew$ $ones$ $do$ $NOT$ $fit$ $that$ $description$.

    So much for the fight starting.

    That being said, you should care about a developer's motivation in putting his wares on your platform. Because that and "them providing great product" don't happen in a vacuum. A developer attracted to a platform for just money is likely not going to be as motivated to keep his app updated since he gets most of his money in the early life of the app availability - barring phenomena like Angry Birds. A developer attracted to a platform for just money will leave as soon as more lucrative opportunities open elsewhere. A developer attracted to a platform for just money will merely follow the success of a platform, instead of helping to drive it.

    If anything, I respect WebOS developers more than ones elsewhere because they have stuck in almost purely out of love for the product. And the homebrew guys most certainly kept it alive when Palm was incapable of doing so. So big ups to them. THAT is the kind of developer we need a lot more of, but to get them, HP has to make some serious changes, and I don't mean changing fromn Mojo to Enyo.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Arggggh. People are so hair trigger around here. Again, I called out no developer in particular because we're talking a hypothetical scenario in which a developer "having trouble" making money on iOS and Android is then motivated to develop for WebOS. AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $the$ $leading$ $WebOS$ $developers$ $and$ $pretty$ $much$ $all$ $of$ $the$ $homebrew$ $ones$ $do$ $NOT$ $fit$ $that$ $description$.

    So much for the fight starting.

    That being said, you should care about a developer's motivation in putting his wares on your platform. Because that and "them providing great product" don't happen in a vacuum. A developer attracted to a platform for just money is likely not going to be as motivated to keep his app updated since he gets most of his money in the early life of the app availability - barring phenomena like Angry Birds. A developer attracted to a platform for just money will leave as soon as more lucrative opportunities open elsewhere. A developer attracted to a platform for just money will merely follow the success of a platform, instead of helping to drive it.

    If anything, I respect WebOS developers more than ones elsewhere because they have stuck in almost purely out of love for the product. And the homebrew guys most certainly kept it alive when Palm was incapable of doing so. So big ups to them. THAT is the kind of developer we need a lot more of, but to get them, HP has to make some serious changes, and I don't mean changing fromn Mojo to Enyo.
    most developers on any platform develop because thats how they make money. The best do it because they like developing and want their work to be enjoyed by a lot of people (while making money). If moving to a different platform (such as webOS) allows a good developer a chance to have his application noticed, appreciated, and enjoyed by more people, so be it. The last thing i would want to do is turn him/her/them off of our community by calling them refugees.

    It really makes no difference if the developers makes apps for a platform because it his/her favorite, as long as they take pride in what they do. Period.

    Don't get me wrong, we need developer support from WebOS enthusiasts. They're the ones who differentiate WebOS. But that's no reason to think lowly of someone bringing their business over from another platform. Just because they aren't webOS loyalists doesn't mean they won't take pride in what they do and offer continuous support
  15. #15  
    It's not a matter of thinking lowly of them, and as happens too many times, this thread is getting hung up around a single, inconsequential-to-the-discussion word.

    But motivation matters. Taking an app at all costs leads to PDK ports, but no original games. It leads to people celebrating minor app count milestones, when 30 percent of the WebOS catalog is comprised of spam/book apps - a much, much higher percentage than the supposedly junk-filled offerings of Android and iOS.

    The Windows Phone 7 app catalog isn't THAT far ahead, numerically, of WebOS, but it's definitely further ahead with mindshare, big names, and titles that leverage the tools unique to that platform (e.g. XNA Game Studio). Microsoft made that happen, and it wasn't just money.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's not a matter of thinking lowly of them, and as happens too many times, this thread is getting hung up around a single, inconsequential-to-the-discussion word.

    But motivation matters. Taking an app at all costs leads to PDK ports, but no original games. It leads to people celebrating minor app count milestones, when 30 percent of the WebOS catalog is comprised of spam/book apps - a much, much higher percentage than the supposedly junk-filled offerings of Android and iOS.

    The Windows Phone 7 app catalog isn't THAT far ahead, numerically, of WebOS, but it's definitely further ahead with mindshare, big names, and titles that leverage the tools unique to that platform (e.g. XNA Game Studio). Microsoft made that happen, and it wasn't just money.
    actually, considering MS paid developers to make apps, i'd say $ was a big factor.

    you say you don't want to celebrate minor milestones, yet the majority of the apps on other platforms (or any platform for that matter) are shovelware made for the sole purpose of netting a quick buck. Period. In order to have a app catalog that competes with the big dogs, we're gonna have to take the good with the bad.

    for a lot of people, this whole mobile ecosystem is strictly business. Then there are those who happen to be making $ doing what they love. There are good developers who don't get shine on Android and iOS because they get lost in the sea of apps. what's wrong with them "taking refuge" in webOS? heck for all you know, they may get here and find that they like it and become WebOS enthusiasts, just as passionate about the platform as the homebrew crowd.

    motivation doesn't have to stem from the platform itself. good developers are motivated to make good products, regardless of the platform.
  17. #17  
    Eh, these webOS bash articles ain't new.

    While its harsh, the point is there is nothing revolutionary about what Palm/HP has brought to the market. We know its not an iclone knockoff at the inner guts but does the average consumer know? RIM, Apple, and Google all have unique product identities that create branding. What does HP/Palm bring to the table?

    If HP is ever going to carve a niche bigger than 2% of the market it is going to need revolutionary NOT evolutionary product(s). That or stevos loss at Apple sending the product dev in a tailspin.




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    Treo 650 > HTC Mogul > HTC Touch Diamond > BB Curve > Palm PRE > HTC Evo + BB Bold
  18. nhavar's Avatar
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    #18  
    The guy who wrote the article doesn't even check his sources or attempt to present a full picture. He cites an article talking Apotheker's failed quarter as HP CEO, yet in the article the analyst says that HP made significant gains in higher margin areas. The analyst in the article also stated that the failures in execution were primarily due to a failing sales staff in place prior to Apotheker and that Apotheker was not to blame. He also cites Apotheker's failings at SAP but doesn't elaborate on the possible difficulties in being a deputy CEO and later a CO-CEO that could have led to conflicting directions within the company. It's a lazy op-ed.
  19. #19  
    the author of the pcworld article should heed the following words of wisdom:

    "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open ones mouth and remove all doubt" **- Mark Twain
  20. #20  
    It's not even as good as a lazy op/ed. At best, and I'm being generous, it's worthy of a teenager's blog. Poorly written, poorly organized, poorly executed. He doesn't like webOS, fine. But he shouldn't need to call Leo names to make that point.
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