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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    I am much more annoyed that they promised to actually have products to go to market with, and then came out with a vague "summer" timeline, with no indication that Sprint users will get anything at all.
    I keep hearing people say this, and I'll agree that the Pre 3 and TouchPad announcements are contrary to that, but folks seem to ignore the fact that the Veer is slated for "early spring". That's within the "weeks" they promised.
  2. #22  
    You can be mad at broken promises, and HP has broken a lot, but it's a done deal. The shipping schedules are not going to be what Apotheker promised. 2.0 will not be on older devices. Flash is not coming to them.

    All you can do is continue to buy the products that work best for you at the time you buy them, and if the Veer, Pre 3, or Touchpad is that product on the day they are in stores, buy 'em. Put no stock in promises about future deliverables or delivery dates. Assume HP won't live up to a single one.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by marshalla99 View Post
    A polite "I'm sorry, I can't answer that question right now" until the alternative solution is ready would have been far better, IMNSHO.

    The issue is that some of us feel let down and are frustrated by another vague promise about "making things right", when they clearly have no plan in place. It seems as if the decision was made on the day, given that HP/Palm staff don't even seem to to have been fully aware of it at the time.

    It's taking far too long for the new plan to appear - and there is a suspicion that, once again, a promise made will be broken and they will not "make things right".
    My recommendations to everyone would be to not put any plans on hold, waiting on the promise. Move at the same pace you would have moved had the promise of an upgrade never been made. Then, when you're ready to actually make a move, base your final decision of HP at that time.

    In other words, had that promise not been made, and you would have waited for the Pre 3 if it took until June. Wait until June. Then judge what HP has done. If they did enough to "make things right" by then, then use that has part of your decision. If they haven't, then use that.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I keep hearing people say this, and I'll agree that the Pre 3 and TouchPad announcements are contrary to that, but folks seem to ignore the fact that the Veer is slated for "early spring". That's within the "weeks" they promised.
    More than four weeks is considered "months", and since the Veer isn't scheduled for release on March 9, it too is beyond the range.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    More than four weeks is considered "months", and since the Veer isn't scheduled for release on March 9, it too is beyond the range.
    Sorry, I disagree. I don't think many people would talk about 6 or 7 weeks can call it 1.5 or 1.75 months. So no, I don't give any credence to "more that four weeks is considered months". If you do, then I understand completely why you feel that HP has broken lots of promises.

    However, I'm much more liberal, not only with HP but with just about anyone. If someone said something will be available in weeks, and they get it to me in 8 months, I'm happy.
  6. daforrds's Avatar
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       #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You can be mad at broken promises, and HP has broken a lot, but it's a done deal. The shipping schedules are not going to be what Apotheker promised. 2.0 will not be on older devices. Flash is not coming to them.

    All you can do is continue to buy the products that work best for you at the time you buy them, and if the Veer, Pre 3, or Touchpad is that product on the say they are in stores, buy 'em. Put no stock in promises about future deliverables or delivery dates. Assume HP won't live up to a single one.
    and here is the issue. if we want to treat the situation like this, why would customers buy any future webos device if we are going to have the mindset that they will make promises about their product and never deliver. a lot of people, especially developers, have put a lot of time and energy and money into the product to see it unfulfilled. it is extremely disappointing to us.

    HP is like a the LA Clippers, they tell their fans they will do their best to compete every year, but everyone knows they are are just talking and have no plans to do anything. As long as people continue to support them and they are making money they can say and do whatever they want, whether or not they intend to do any of it or not.

    so, are we going to support a company (HP) we do not believe in? Or an OS, that we do believe in (WebOS)?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sorry, I disagree. I don't think many people would talk about 6 or 7 weeks can call it 1.5 or 1.75 months. So no, I don't give any credence to "more that four weeks is considered months". If you do, then I understand completely why you feel that HP has broken lots of promises.

    However, I'm much more liberal, not only with HP but with just about anyone. If someone said something will be available in weeks, and they get it to me in 8 months, I'm happy.
    This tangent aside, they have broken many promises (some made by Palm). I don't care, personally. Like I said....HP and Palm have no credit as far as I am concerned.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    My recommendations to everyone would be to not put any plans on hold, waiting on the promise. Move at the same pace you would have moved had the promise of an upgrade never been made. Then, when you're ready to actually make a move, base your final decision of HP at that time.

    In other words, had that promise not been made, and you would have waited for the Pre 3 if it took until June. Wait until June. Then judge what HP has done. If they did enough to "make things right" by then, then use that has part of your decision. If they haven't, then use that.
    Ah, but the promise WAS made. If a dog bites you once - do you try to pet it again ? What if it bites you twice ? How many bites does it take before you decided it's a dangerous dog ?
    Psion 3a, 3c, 3mx, Handspring Visor Deluxe, Treo 180, Treo 600, Centro, Pre, Touchpad, Pre3, Blackberry Passport (sorry!)
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by daforrds View Post
    and here is the issue. if we want to treat the situation like this, why would customers buy any future webos device if we are going to have the mindset that they will make promises about their product and never deliver. a lot of people, especially developers, have put a lot of time and energy and money into the product to see it unfulfilled. it is extremely disappointing to us.

    HP is like a the LA Clippers, they tell their fans they will do their best to compete every year, but everyone knows they are are just talking and have no plans to do anything. As long as people continue to support them and they are making money they can say and do whatever they want, whether or not they intend to do any of it or not.

    so, are we going to support a company (HP) we do not believe in? Or an OS, that we do believe in (WebOS)?
    I understand being disappointed, but I also think you have to consider that some of these promises were made by Palm and some were made by people who don't have anything to do with WebOS.

    Let's say HP delivered the Feb. 9 products by Mar. 9 - to their website. You could order them unlocked for $399 for the Veer, $499 for the Pre 3, and $699 for the TouchPad. They are clearly not finished, don't have developer support or carrier subsidies, and HP has no ecosystem to support them. What does that achieve? Fulfillment of that promise comes at too high a price...it's a Pyhrric victory.

    Would I like for them to back up their words with action we can trust? Yes. But what I would like much more is for them to get it right this time at any and all costs. If they gotta break some promises, do it. You gotta pay people off, do it. Do whatever it takes. Get it right.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I keep hearing people say this, and I'll agree that the Pre 3 and TouchPad announcements are contrary to that, but folks seem to ignore the fact that the Veer is slated for "early spring". That's within the "weeks" they promised.
    But they broke that promise with the Pre 3 and the touchpad. And I have zero interest in the Veer, and can't think of who might be interested in it, really. So instead of delivering exciting sexy new products within weeks, they delivered some sexy vaporware and a really uninteresting product. AND, within a day, they also broke their promise to upgrade the existing Pres to the new OS. AND, there's no hint that any of the sexy vaporware will even be available for Sprint.

    So as a Sprint customer who was expecting to hear, on Feb 9th, about something good I could buy within weeks, instead I got told "oops, nothing for now, and by the way, forget about that upgrade that we promised you."

    Who wouldn't be disappointed?
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    #31  
    It's HP that is effin' with the "open communication"...... not it's customers. It started with "Leo the Lion"......

    anyway, i heard that battery life in the new devices have improved so much that they will rename the pre 3 to the pre Zzzzzzzzzzz highlitin' it's perpetual sleep mode...
  12. daforrds's Avatar
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       #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I understand being disappointed, but I also think you have to consider that some of these promises were made by Palm and some were made by people who don't have anything to do with WebOS.

    Let's say HP delivered the Feb. 9 products by Mar. 9 - to their website. You could order them unlocked for $399 for the Veer, $499 for the Pre 3, and $699 for the TouchPad. They are clearly not finished, don't have developer support or carrier subsidies, and HP has no ecosystem to support them. What does that achieve? Fulfillment of that promise comes at too high a price...it's a Pyhrric victory.

    Would I like for them to back up their words with action we can trust? Yes. But what I would like much more is for them to get it right this time at any and all costs. If they gotta break some promises, do it. You gotta pay people off, do it. Do whatever it takes. Get it right.
    i honestly could care less about the release dates. if they want to announce something unfinished, not polished, not ready for release, unknown carriers, unknown prices etc. that just makes them look like they dont know what the hell they are doing. if they want to be cool like apple, they need to polish the product, and have it ready for release...i am not an apple fan, but i respect the fact that the products they put out are polished...when they set a date, they hit it. HP's handling of all of this stemming from feb9 is very very sloppy and it is not helping the reputation of WebOS, it would have been better to just leak shots and small videos until the stuff is ready to roll out...but oh well, that is how they like to operate.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by daforrds View Post
    HP is like a the LA Clippers, they tell their fans they will do their best to compete every year, but everyone knows they are are just talking and have no plans to do anything. As long as people continue to support them and they are making money they can say and do whatever they want, whether or not they intend to do any of it or not.

    so, are we going to support a company (HP) we do not believe in? Or an OS, that we do believe in (WebOS)?
    I'm probably the only member of the Clippers Nation on this forum so I have to pretend to be appalled at your comparison.

    That said, I don't know if you can separate the OS from the company that owns, maintains, and sells it. To go back to your Clippers analogy...I think it's awesome that we have Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon and Baron Davis is actually having fun again but, deep down, I know we're not making the playoffs.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by marshalla99 View Post
    Ah, but the promise WAS made. If a dog bites you once - do you try to pet it again ? What if it bites you twice ? How many bites does it take before you decided it's a dangerous dog ?
    Dog bites cause damage, this "broken promise" did not. If your dog is supposed to bring the paper, and does not, you may decide to get rid of the dog first thing in the morning. If the dog then brings you your slippers later that night, you might change your mind.

    I like that dog analogy better, and I think it fits better.
  15. #35  
    Burn Down HP to the Ground.. Letgs stock up on Pitchforks Hurry!!!

    /sarcasm <--- i input the sarcasm tag for those that may think otherwise
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    But they broke that promise with the Pre 3 and the touchpad. And I have zero interest in the Veer, and can't think of who might be interested in it, really. So instead of delivering exciting sexy new products within weeks, they delivered some sexy vaporware and a really uninteresting product. AND, within a day, they also broke their promise to upgrade the existing Pres to the new OS. AND, there's no hint that any of the sexy vaporware will even be available for Sprint.

    So as a Sprint customer who was expecting to hear, on Feb 9th, about something good I could buy within weeks, instead I got told "oops, nothing for now, and by the way, forget about that upgrade that we promised you."

    Who wouldn't be disappointed?
    I think anyone would be. I'm disappointed.

    At the same time, I'm encouraged. Hints are starting to come out about Sprint. Hints are starting to come out about making the broken promise right.

    I hope you see my point.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think anyone would be. I'm disappointed.

    At the same time, I'm encouraged. Hints are starting to come out about Sprint. Hints are starting to come out about making the broken promise right.

    I hope you see my point.
    Hint came out about Flash. Hints came out about WebOS 2.x

    I hope you see my point.
    Psion 3a, 3c, 3mx, Handspring Visor Deluxe, Treo 180, Treo 600, Centro, Pre, Touchpad, Pre3, Blackberry Passport (sorry!)
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by marshalla99 View Post
    Hint came out about Flash. Hints came out about WebOS 2.x

    I hope you see my point.
    Absolutely. Don't base a decison on hints. Base a decision on what you can do at the time you make the decision. That's my plan.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Absolutely. Don't base a decison on hints. Base a decision on what you can do at the time you make the decision. That's my plan.
    I want to be able to rely on the technology tomorrow, not just today. I'd like to be able to rely on the vendor. It's going to take a while and a lot more proof before I feel that I can rely on HP again.
    Psion 3a, 3c, 3mx, Handspring Visor Deluxe, Treo 180, Treo 600, Centro, Pre, Touchpad, Pre3, Blackberry Passport (sorry!)
  20. daforrds's Avatar
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       #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I'm probably the only member of the Clippers Nation on this forum so I have to pretend to be appalled at your comparison.

    That said, I don't know if you can separate the OS from the company that owns, maintains, and sells it. To go back to your Clippers analogy...I think it's awesome that we have Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon and Baron Davis is actually having fun again but, deep down, I know we're not making the playoffs.
    i think HP certainly hopes that people find it difficult, if not impossible, to separate company and OS, they understand palm has a loyal following.

    as for the Clips, good luck with that. Blake Griffin is a beast, and gordon can, at times, be a great shooter and unstoppable scorer, but Sterling will never put forth the resources to make them compete year in year out (maybe drafted talent will get people excited a year here or there though).
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