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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by neville View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the pre3 and veer are going to be big letdowns saleswise.

    They're late to market and they're scorning existing webOS users. So who else is there to purchase the phones? Who else is there to sell apps to?

    As a developer, webOS app sales are pathetically small as-is. Palm effectively eliminated all future revenue for me from their platform.
    Under what circumstances might you reconsider developing again for webOS? Based on what you have stated, its understandable. It would be nice for HP to get actual product in the consumers hand timely in this fast paced market.

    They have really gotta make the ecosystem work since time is passing.
  2. dvdmon's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    As I just posted in my Music Player (Remix) thread, I think the reason HP did it was to start over from scratch (a reboot of webOS). Sure they have an existing user base, 5000 apps, and a set of developers, but they're obviously going for the gold. They want to play with the big boys (iOS and Android), so their current stats are just a blip on the screen. However what they don't realize is that the heart of webOS has been the community (users and developers). Focusing solely on their potential new users and developers and forgetting about their existing community is a mistake.
    As this thread and others indicate, I'm guessing that if Palm doesn't do something quickly to quell these concerns, we'll have a big slow-down in app development. I'm thinking maybe a hundred or two more apps before the summer, plus lots of orphaned apps.

    Why HP with all its money and engineers couldn't figure out a way to get 1.X profiles converted to 2.0 I can't imagine. And having given this up and realizing the mess it's created, it needs to use it's money to get its developers not run for the hills as it seems they are doing now. HP, go pay your develoopers like MS did. WP7 came out only last fall and they already have more apps than this close 1.7-yr-old platform.
    Twitter: @dvdmon

  3. #23  
    this thread makes me sad, because it shows that the people in charge of developer relations at HP doesn't understand. i was so so so certain that they had reached out to the webOS developer community and asked them to participate in the building/testing of the new framework, since they'd already demoed a preview in november.

    i truly thought that the quietness meant that a bunch of developers were under NDA and couldn't say anything. that they just went solo is not good. perhaps this was why the two guys from mozilla, ben and dion, left.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Under what circumstances might you reconsider developing again for webOS? Based on what you have stated, its understandable. It would be nice for HP to get actual product in the consumers hand timely in this fast paced market.

    They have really gotta make the ecosystem work since time is passing.
    I would love to have a device that I could develop on. Since I'm in a 3-year contract with my Bell Pre-, and they don't offer the developer device program for Canada... I'm basically up <<a (mod edit)>> creek.

    I can't develop Enyo, I can't sell Mojo. I have no way to develop anything for webOS anymore.

    They've basically eliminated all international developers for at-least 4-5 months. For people like me, another 1.5 years.
    Last edited by bevcraw; 02/10/2011 at 10:29 AM.
    Developer of Ultimate Hockey, netSpeed, BatteryMonitor, The Ghastly Headset,
    netSpeed HD, St4rs and Matrix Exhibition
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Follow my webOS projects on my blog and follow me on twitter
  5. #25  
    Before anyone tries to make more apologies for HP, try this thought experiment first. Imagine that your goal is actually to DISCOURAGE webOS development. How would you go about it? Wouldn't your plan look a lot like what HP has announced so far? New devices, but not until some vague time in the future. No carrier announcement. No clear support for either legacy devices or legacy apps. Strategic redirection of the platform away from smartphones and towards tablets, PCs, printers and other peripherals.

    Not being paranoid, just pointing out that if you really wanted to kill developer interest instead of promote it your action plan would probably look very similar to the HP announcements yesterday.
    Last edited by doublebullout; 02/10/2011 at 10:29 AM. Reason: damn you, iPhone autocorrect!
    Powered by Palm since 1996...
    Palm Pilot > Palm V > Tungsten T > Trēo 650 > Centro > Prē > Prē F102

    ...gave up and switched to iPhone4 7/15/10
  6. JayC3's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    Again, you're missing the point. Developers aren't eating off webOS now anyway. The platform is too small. It's call investment to learn the tools and get your production pipeline up to succeed in the future.
    So basically, what you're saying is that developers need to treat (for now) WebOS as a hobby platform rather that a platform that they can make money. I think this may be a hard sell. If HP is really serious about WebOS moving forward, they need to PAY developers to develop for WebOS.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by DanPLC View Post
    I posted my reactions on Twitter, as well as here: http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ml#post2857519. In short, as a developer of a 2.0-specific app, I was blindsided and feel like a mack truck ran into me.

    ...Focusing solely on their potential new users and developers and forgetting about their existing community is a mistake.
    Dan, thank you for all that you did.

    As soon as I realized that they had set fire to the existing user base, I thought of you.

    We stood by Palm as users. You and the other developers stood by Palm giving up opportunities to earn real money elsewhere.

    I am so sorry.

    - Craig
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by neville View Post
    I am a developer and I am abandoning webOS because of this.

    edit: i think a poll may be a better representation of this data
    Dude omg im so sad... your ghastly headset app is literally the only way i can use my phone. I will be sad to see you go. Please keep us updated on where you develop next!

    Stupid HP
  9. ijip's Avatar
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    #29  
    to be honest developrs leaving because of these recent announcements are grossly exxagerating their situation. the webos community is too small anyway to have exclusive support from anyone. its just like when sony nintendo or ms release a new gaming console. developers have to take a leap of faith. if u make a quality app and are first to market its like winning the lotto. look at pandora with webos....... bottom line, this is an individual choice, you can look at it half full or empty.....
  10. #30  
    current webOS users/devs = Collateral damage

    No offense but I take it most webOS devs are "basement" programmers. Some make it to the big show. But all in all it was never about putting food on the table, it was the love of the platform, the belief in the Palm vision.

    I guess for HP it wasn't worth it. They want to target the big company's developer teams.
    Treo 650 > HTC Mogul > HTC Touch Diamond > BB Curve > Palm PRE > HTC Evo + BB Bold
  11. #31  
    Do you realize the amount of time and effort that goes into app development? You really think this amount of commitment is not about trying to earn and is only about love of a platform?
  12. #32  
    Look, i work with devs in an IT dept, i know the time and effort. While i certainly don't doubt people were looking for a paycheck, greener pastures were on other platforms. So what made those devs stay??? Not a belief in the Palm "vision"?
    Treo 650 > HTC Mogul > HTC Touch Diamond > BB Curve > Palm PRE > HTC Evo + BB Bold
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The root of all this lies in the cobbled-together nature of webOS. While it was refreshing to think of a smartphone operating system built from the ground-up, the blistering pace of smartphone and now tablet innovation means that HP must essentially abandon the original framework.

    It's a monumental screw-up for a platform to have to leave behind two years third-party developer work and require that apps be completely rewritten or else run in emulation. Remember, Palm just did that to Palm OS and now they are doing it to Mojo. Well, about the same percentage of Mojo apps will be converted to Enyo as Palm OS apps were converted to Mojo - precious few.

    Just how many times can one company reboot their platform?
    HP has rebooted webos once. I think that's the point. They paid over a billion for this os and they are changing it t fit their business plan. A 2% userbase and over 5,000 apps in almost two years gives them plenty of incentive to restart without sacrificing much. It sucks for the webs faithful and even more for the developers but they are in it for the long haul. They have the money and the people to make it happen. They also have a great OS that they have improved on. It won't be long before webos will be on as many if not more devices than even android. I think they are confident that developers won't be able to ignore them as this happens.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by giograves View Post
    Look, i work with devs in an IT dept, i know the time and effort. While i certainly don't doubt people were looking for a paycheck, greener pastures were on other platforms. So what made those devs stay??? Not a belief in the Palm "vision"?
    Or simply the hope of getting in early, or it being based on a language they know, or...
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
    They have the money and the people to make it happen...It won't be long before webos will be on as many if not more devices than even android. I think they are confident that developers won't be able to ignore them as this happens.
    Feb 9th was their coming out party. Why didn't they put "the money and the people" behind webOS over the past 7 months to have some strong apps to show yesterday? Where was netflix, hulu plus? Why isn't
    Enyo further along?
    Why does Rubenstein keep on saying there will be thousands of apps when we haven't seen this at all?
    Why can't they execute and properly communicate their issues in a timely manner with their current developers?
    What I am driving at here is that tons of large companies have failed to appropriately execute on launches of new products. It could easily go this way with HP. If developers bypass and consumers then think the platform is too app-poor to buy, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Momentum is key and depends on careful execution as well.
  16. rkguy's Avatar
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    #36  
    Am I going out on a limb here to say that if HP sent all current owners of pres and pixis a new Pre2 or veer before the rest of the market got them that developers would probably stay onboard?
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
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    #37  
    I invested years of my life in to PalmOS development. My app count was going up, sales were going up, things were good. Then almost overnight it seemed like PalmOS was swept under the rug by Palm and WebOS was born. All of that work pretty much for nothing. So I move on to WebOS, learn some Mojo and start picking up steam. Then I smell something (this was a long time ago that I smelled this), it smelled like something of the past. My gut feeling was to abandon Mojo and write OpenGL based games in C++ that I could easily port to iOS and Android. Wellll would you look at that. It's PalmOS all over again. So although I'm not abandoning WebOS, I'm never going to write apps *exclusive* to one platform again.

    I'll use WebOS as my primary platform, but there's no way i'll develop for it as my primary platform anymore.

    - Phil -
  18. rkguy's Avatar
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    #38  
    Please no flames. If blackberry will run android apps using an alt to Dalvik (see engadget's post yesterday) why can't webOS? It's already powerful enough to emulate mojo. Why can't webos emulate enough of the iphone to let people much more easily port their non opengl apps? Is it because the framework is closed?

    Honest questions. I apologize if this is the wrong place.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    That's great, how do you *eat* now? How do you eat potential?

    What is the incentive to develop an app *at this moment*?
    I think you are taking this to the extreme, I'm no developer but I don't think they made their living from this. This would have been something secondary for them. If there are developers of this type let me/us know. I would think developers used this as extra income on the side.
    I bet WebOS was a platform for them to showcase to others (Google, Apple, etc.)what they could do. Basically, the potential/possibility for them to obtain a bigger contract. Like it or not, HPs scale is here and that possibility has been magnified even more. HP is not stupid, besides how quick you forgot when Iphone 3gs came out. People were ****ed, but look at Apple now, a cash cow to you. This is the way business is at times and if you trade stocks you would know a thing or two about waves being created by a big company. If I was a developer I would hang in there because once the ripple starts going a tsunami will be coming and those that stay on board will be brining in the moolah.
    Besides, maybe this way we wont get the appstore flooded with nonsense, but quality apps. Big dogs like talking to big dogs, so with amazon, dreamworks, SI, Skype, etc., everyone will take notice and everybody will be one board.
  20. #40  
    This sounds like a good time to start developing to me. What was once old is now new again!

    Hp needs to release the new developer tools and documentation so we can get started.

    When you all calm down, you'll see that this is a gold rush!

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
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