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  1.    #1  
    Ok, the forums are going crazy so I will try to put into words what happened here:

    Veer and Pre3 look good. Lots of people are bashing them, but I assume they will be great phones (i'd trade my pixi for a Veer in a heart-beat)

    BUT, what happened today was that HP/Palm blew their one big chance to start fresh. We needed something different than the Pre (at least name it something other than the "Pre 3"...imagine if Microsoft had called Windows 7 "Vista 2" instead!). Not because many of us don't like the pre-form factor, but because we who love webOS know that we need marketshare to survive.

    The smartphone space is like a pyramid scheme...it only works for us if we get new people in. No new buyers, no user-base, no apps...webOS is dead.

    Same name, same form-factor, same wait until the product arrives = same result: few buyers and a dying platform. I may love having a veer or a pre3...but after today I am not confident that webOS as a platform can survive.

    EDIT:
    I changed "webosis dead" to "webos is in trouble" because I decided that I shouldn't add to the hysteria. I stand by my concern as explained in the post, but maybe with the right marketing for the Veer and a bunch of new webos folks coming in with teh TouchPad webOS might succeed.
    Last edited by bradleyj; 02/10/2011 at 12:56 AM.
  2. #2  
    You're rather optimistic fellow aren't you?

    =P
  3.    #3  
    maybe I am being pessimistic...but if you look at these forums, the mood speaks for itself. As I said, I actually think these phones are really neat, I'd buy either one if I had the chance...except that I don't think today was what HP/Palm needed to succeed in the market.
  4. #4  
    everything that happened today.... sucked..

    developers have been set back a YEAR!!! 2.0 apps don't work with the largest user base of Pre owners.... and webOS 2.0 Pre2 isn't available to the masses on any carrier yet!!!

    ZERO user base at this point. Will everything be ok in the long run... yea... but to start over at this point in the game? and alienate developers !! and tell them "UNLEARN MOJO" what the heck!!

    Pre3 won't be out for 5-6 months from now... so ZERO users till September... and iPhone5 will come out about then... this is a big bad setback... and wasted a LOT of developer time.
  5.    #5  
    Alright I will try to be optimistic...the idea of webOS on PC's increasing the market opportunities for developers sounds great...maybe HP can pull this off...
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by bradleyj View Post
    Ok, the forums are going crazy so I will try to put into words what happened here:

    Veer and Pre3 look good. Lots of people are bashing them, but I assume they will be great phones (i'd trade my pixi for a Veer in a heart-beat)

    BUT, what happened today was that HP/Palm blew their one big chance to start fresh. We needed something different than the Pre (at least name it something other than the "Pre 3"...imagine if Microsoft had called Windows 7 "Vista 2" instead!). Not because many of us don't like the pre-form factor, but because we who love webOS know that we need marketshare to survive.

    The smartphone space is like a pyramid scheme...it only works for us if we get new people in. No new buyers, no user-base, no apps...webOS is dead.

    Same name, same form-factor, same wait until the product arrives = same result: few buyers and a dying platform. I may love having a veer or a pre3...but after today I am not confident that webOS as a platform can survive.
    You sir....are a genius. read my mind.
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  7. #7  
    I can see WebOs being an enterprise player only - today's event really hurt HP's chances in the consumer space. IMHO

    Most people have the attention span of a gnat here's what happened.

    First, HP's shows off some cool new phones and a very nice tablet
    Second, coming in the summer
    Third, consumers will move on to the next cool announcement by a vendor and jump all over the hardware if it's available right after the event.

    Most consumers won't wait because WebOS is a better os. Most consumers would rather buy now and possibly buy later when they are reminded again of what was announced today.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio3 View Post
    everything that happened today.... sucked..

    developers have been set back a YEAR!!! 2.0 apps don't work with the largest user base of Pre owners.... and webOS 2.0 Pre2 isn't available to the masses on any carrier yet!!!

    ZERO user base at this point. Will everything be ok in the long run... yea... but to start over at this point in the game? and alienate developers !! and tell them "UNLEARN MOJO" what the heck!!

    Pre3 won't be out for 5-6 months from now... so ZERO users till September... and iPhone5 will come out about then... this is a big bad setback... and wasted a LOT of developer time.
    This is what is really going to kill WebOS... Well said. Likewise, why keep developing for WebOS 1.4.5 if there's no where to get an "older" Pre/Pixi anymore? HP seems to have forced the app developers out of business for the next six months... Why would they even bother coming back once they're gone?

    Imagine all the people that just placed pre orders for Pre 2 on Verizon (if there were any). I'm sure they're likely going to cancel these orders as a newer (and better) Pre will be out in the summer... Only thing is, once those phones come out in the summer, they're already going to be outdated. Apple will have announced something new, and likely there will be some new "awesome" Android phone out as well.

    WebOS has what 3% market share of phones right now? I can't name one app I have that I can't live without, but know of a few apps on iPhone/Android that I'd really like to have on my Pre...

    I'm sad that I won't be using WebOS much longer, it truly was a great OS... But, with lots of "bests" I've followed in my life (Sega Master System, Sega Dreamcast, Laserdisc, etc.) this is just another that didn't catch on with the masses and will be living a short life.
  9. #9  
    I can't disagree with any thing on here except that I don't think the Veer nor the Pre 3 are as great of devices are you are making them out to be.

    I think people will do nothing but roll their eyes at both of those devices.

    I agree though, WebOS's days are very likely coming to a close--at least from a smartphone aspect..
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    I can't disagree with any thing on here except that I don't think the Veer nor the Pre 3 are as great of devices are you are making them out to be.
    Why not?

    The screen of the Pre 3 is (physicallly) larger than any Iphone. The resolution is high and higher than any Iphone besides 4.

    The CPU is the very fastest.
    RAM is more than you will need in practice.
    The mass storage should perhaps have a an extra option - but will be more than enough for most.

    The Veer will be - by far - the best small phone on the market. While that won't help you if you don't want a small phone - it will be great for those who are looking for that.

    Assuming decent battery life these will actually be great devices. The problems won't be these devices but what's missing around them.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Why not?

    The screen of the Pre 3 is (physicallly) larger than any Iphone. The resolution is high and higher than any Iphone besides 4.

    The CPU is the very fastest.
    RAM is more than you will need in practice.
    The mass storage should perhaps have a an extra option - but will be more than enough for most.

    The Veer will be - by far - the best small phone on the market. While that won't help you if you don't want a small phone - it will be great for those who are looking for that.

    Assuming decent battery life these will actually be great devices. The problems won't be these devices but what's missing around them.
    Because its taking the same failed design, bringing it up to the end of 2010 specs, and then reselling it.

    They needed new form factors for everyone.
    Not the same design that has failed with the Pre, the Pre plus, and the Pre 2.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio3 View Post
    everything that happened today.... sucked..

    developers have been set back a YEAR!!! 2.0 apps don't work with the largest user base of Pre owners.... and webOS 2.0 Pre2 isn't available to the masses on any carrier yet!!!

    ZERO user base at this point. Will everything be ok in the long run... yea... but to start over at this point in the game? and alienate developers !! and tell them "UNLEARN MOJO" what the heck!!

    Pre3 won't be out for 5-6 months from now... so ZERO users till September... and iPhone5 will come out about then... this is a big bad setback... and wasted a LOT of developer time.
    The Pre2 is on sale today at Verizon BUT it will not get any press because the iPhone4 is also on sale today at Verizon.
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio3 View Post
    everything that happened today.... sucked..

    developers have been set back a YEAR!!! 2.0 apps don't work with the largest user base of Pre owners.... and webOS 2.0 Pre2 isn't available to the masses on any carrier yet!!!

    ZERO user base at this point. Will everything be ok in the long run... yea... but to start over at this point in the game? and alienate developers !! and tell them "UNLEARN MOJO" what the heck!!

    Pre3 won't be out for 5-6 months from now... so ZERO users till September... and iPhone5 will come out about then... this is a big bad setback... and wasted a LOT of developer time.
    Guess what the Pre and Pre Plus users aren't going to be the largest usersbase by the end of summer. Move forward. Don't look back. Deal with it.
  14. #14  
    I can't disagree with your analysis. I like the Pre3 and the Veer may find its niche...if it released today as Apotheker said. Late summer? probably too late. Hp is running late and can't seem to catch up to the pack.

    Also, consider that they have not announced carriers. The veer seems to be going to ATT and Verizon will get the PRE3? Neither will support the product as tgheir focus will be on the iphone, then Android and we will have a repeat of the Pre/Pixi launch.

    I feel that the strength of WEBOS has been the fanatical user base who have, for the most part, remained passionate is now going to slip quietly away and the avid discourse will be replaced by crickets...
  15. mrtonk's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by slbailey1 View Post
    The Pre2 is on sale today at Verizon BUT it will not get any press because the iPhone4 is also on sale today at Verizon.
    FWIW...I don't see it on the Verizon site anywhere.
  16. #16  
    I actually liked the fact that they're sticking with the Pre name and form factor. Gives me the impression that they believe enough in their product to promote continuity.
    How dare they!
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Because its taking the same failed design, bringing it up to the end of 2010 specs, and then reselling it.

    They needed new form factors for everyone.
    Not the same design that has failed with the Pre, the Pre plus, and the Pre 2.
    I don't agree that the design failed. Maybe the build quality, but mostly marketing failed. I will agree with you that they did need a slab to make any dent in marketshare. But please leave the portrait slider, because I personally don't want a brick in my pocket (no pun intended ).
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric1970 View Post
    I can see WebOs being an enterprise player only - today's event really hurt HP's chances in the consumer space. IMHO

    Most people have the attention span of a gnat here's what happened.

    First, HP's shows off some cool new phones and a very nice tablet
    Second, coming in the summer
    Third, consumers will move on to the next cool announcement by a vendor and jump all over the hardware if it's available right after the event.

    Most consumers won't wait because WebOS is a better os. Most consumers would rather buy now and possibly buy later when they are reminded again of what was announced today.
    Here is the problem with being an "Enterprise Only" player. It won't last long. Look at how Iphones have pushed into the enterprise market because people wanted the features that they had on their personal phones available on their work devices. I have a feeling this trend will continue. Blackberry was once the enterprise king but are now quickly falling. I think some companies forget that business employees are also consumers.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    Because its taking the same failed design, bringing it up to the end of 2010 specs, and then reselling it.

    They needed new form factors for everyone.
    Not the same design that has failed with the Pre, the Pre plus, and the Pre 2.


    I keep seeing this "form factor" nonsense and it drives me crazy. I personally have a Blackberry Tour and a Palm Pre. Within my company, we have iPhones and EVOs. (The iPhone is one guy's personal. All others are Sprint)

    I have used all THREE "form factors" quite a bit and it is totally a non-issue for me or any of the folks here. Yes, you get used to using one, so you are naturally better at navigating that one. But, Those three "forms" pretty much exhaust the possibilities. (please spare me the 'portrait v horizontal' slider as being different)

    Anyway. iPhone is not successful BECAUSE it is a slab. It is well built, well marketed, and supported with lots of apps, etc.

    If Pre3 is well built, it'll likely become my primary phone. The only 2 reasons that I still use my BB as primary is because of Battery life and Build quality.

    I think webOS is great. Give me great hardware on it and I could not care less what "form factor" it takes. I'll be able to adjust and within weeks, it will be a non-issue.
  20. mrtonk's Avatar
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    #20  
    I do like the Pre's form factor.
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