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  1. #1321  
    Well, whatever HP offers, it IS ultimately up to each carrier to pass it along, unless we decide to leave our carrier and go to where webOS offer is best...

    HP could offer free phones to everyone, but if the carrier says "I want my cut", you are kinda holding a free, but useless device...
    "Palm, Productivity in Your's..."

    God Bless and Travel Well!

    Prius, Proof that People Will Buy Anything... Baaaa!
  2. ekuns's Avatar
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    #1322  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Al View Post
    Well, whatever HP offers, it IS ultimately up to each carrier to pass it along, unless we decide to leave our carrier and go to where webOS offer is best...

    HP could offer free phones to everyone, but if the carrier says "I want my cut", you are kinda holding a free, but useless device...
    Umm.... If HP truly wanted to offer a free phone to everyone, the carrier couldn't say a thing about it, as long as the phone brand in question was certified by them to work on their network, or as long as the phone was unlocked and would function in their network. The only "cut" the carrier could take would be an activation fee to activate the new device plus any new fees you take by activating any new device, such as the new Sprint $10/month fee for activating any smartphone. (That used to be only for activating a 4G device.)

    Alternately, if HP wanted to offer a rebate via HP for a new phone, the carrier couldn't say much about that either. Any transaction between HP and the user is out of the carrier's hands. The carrier is involved only if HP doesn't want to be.

    For example: Sprint, so far as I know, will let you activate any CDMA phone that is not locked to a different network. They may not sell it to you, but if you have it they'll let you activate it. This isn't as open as many of the GSM European carriers, where just about any GSM device will function and you just need an appropriate SIM card. But neither is it necessarily as closed as some people think.
  3. #1323  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    up to what the "carrier decides to do."

    wow, HP passes the buck.
    true that.

    Complaining to verizon only took like 45 seconds though. And if both HP and VZW know the deal stinks, it may get better for everyone.
  4. cb99's Avatar
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    #1324  
    ...why didn't I buy that iphone when in decided for my Pre?!?
  5. #1325  
    Look. I know palm made promises,but now that they are owned by a big company they can't make all the right decisions anymore RIP Palm -Bell Pre user
  6. #1326  
    Quote Originally Posted by cb99 View Post
    ...why didn't I buy that iphone when in decided for my Pre?!?
    ... you registered only to post this?
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  7. #1327  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickVTPre View Post
    LThe person said that it really depends on what my carrier decides do do.


    Oh great. I paid a premium for an unlocked phone so I wasn't tied to a carrier...
    Psion 3a, 3c, 3mx, Handspring Visor Deluxe, Treo 180, Treo 600, Centro, Pre, Touchpad, Pre3, Blackberry Passport (sorry!)
  8. #1328  
    Does anyone else seem to think that HP/Palm's "path to 2.0" will be a free, or at least heavily discounted, Pre 2??

    I don't mean to speculate really because I'm still new to the Palm brand, having only purchased my Pre Plus on Verizon back in like August or September, but from my viewpoint, what else can they really offer those of us who are still locked into long-term contracts with what are now being touted as "legacy" devices that will receive almost no support or software updates?

    I can sort of see that the original Pre and Pixi might not be able to support 2.0, but if even both Plus versions of these phones can't handle it, then an update to them (over the air or otherwise) seems terribly unlikely unless you're porting it via Homebrew somehow. So why not simply upgrade us to the next device available to run the new software? Especially given that the Pre 3 and Veer will both be on the market soon, already numbering the days in which the Pre 2 will remain relevant...

    It might be kind of a difficult stretch to do for everyone with these devices unless Sprint and AT&T also change their minds miraculously and start carrying the Pre 2. But certainly, even in those cases, HP could bring down the price of an unlocked Pre 2 significantly, no?

    Unless this is the plan, it seems like kind of a waste for the Pre 2 to just continue languishing in preparation of the Pre 3, and definitely unfair for the rest of us who didn't know we were buying into hardware that was already about to be outdated...
  9. #1329  
    Palm Corp Relations as quoted by Post #1332: "The two paths that person mentioned were a webOS Doctor patch, or a hardware upgrade discount, or credit, of some kind.The person said that it really depends on what my carrier decides do do. "

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Al View Post
    Well, whatever HP offers, it IS ultimately up to each carrier to pass it along, unless we decide to leave our carrier and go to where webOS offer is best...

    HP could offer free phones to everyone, but if the carrier says "I want my cut", you are kinda holding a free, but useless device...
    This post from 02 (see bottom for link) which is pleading with Palm for update for both Plus and Minus says explicitly "the ultimate decision for this lies in the hands of HP".

    So how come on Feb 17th, eight days after the disaster, Palm Corp Relations is still issuing an incorrect response? Why hasn't senior management gotten together and fashioned one response to give to corp relations which is reliable? If they did this, it would show good leadership and accountability to their customer base.

    http://forums.precentral.net/general...-disaster.html
    Last edited by bluenote; 02/19/2011 at 11:45 AM.
  10. #1330  
    I think I'm just gonna have to go back to my old Palm Treo 750.. At least it got Windows Mobile updates.
  11. #1331  
    If Palm is going to refuse updates to the Pre(-) and Pixi(-) they had better offer something good and not wait to tell us.

    With so many things from HP saying we would receive vs 2.x (It said on their web site previously, hinted on adobe's, and they even released a video saying the devices would receive it!) It's like HP is asking for a Class Action Lawsuit...

    On top of not receiving this update we have to go through the rest of our contracts barely able to view documents and PDFs properly, yet still HP's site says the Palm Pre(-) life-cycle is "current"
  12. boyer61's Avatar
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    #1332  
    just bought my Droid off ebay... I will keep my pre around to see how things turn out.
  13. #1333  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    So how come on Feb 17th, eight days after the disaster, Palm Corp Relations is still issuing an incorrect response? Why hasn't senior management gotten together and fashioned one response to give to corp relations which is reliable? If they did this, it would show good leadership and accountability to their customer base.
    Perhaps negotiations between hardware manufacturers and cellular carriers is so difficult that it takes months to make such a decision, and it changes from one outcome to another weekly depending on the carrier. You may actually be seeing the unedited real-time journey of that decision.

    Hopefully HP has the power to enter into better contracts with the carriers ...

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  14. #1334  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Perhaps negotiations between hardware manufacturers and cellular carriers is so difficult that it takes months to make such a decision, and it changes from one outcome to another weekly depending on the carrier. You may actually be seeing the unedited real-time journey of that decision.

    Hopefully HP has the power to enter into better contracts with the carriers ...

    -- Rod
    I would imagine that this truly is a difficult negotiation for HP and I would be more willing to cut HP some slack if they would at least be a bit more transparent about the nature of the technical problem (memory constraints, partitions sizing, etc) of why WebOS won't run on older hardware. Most of us have seen the Youtube video showing WebOs 2.0 run on older Pres. What features of WebOS 2 won't work? Why won't they release a version without this/these features? If we could understand how not releasing WebOS2 to older hardware is better for the platform as a whole we might instead have reason to praise HP. But instead a remarkable amount of Brand Loyalty seems to have been wasted on inconsistent reasons.

    I would be also more willing give HP time to work with the carriers if we had some idea of the possible solutions they had in mind, an approximate time table of when we might hear something or even a simple posting to the Palm Blog saying that:

    "We are still working to Make Things Right for our customers. We are currently in negotiations with all the carriers and therefore can't discuss specific solutions to the problem. But worry not in the end NOT one of our loyal customers will be left out of WebOS 2.0 newness. We plan on making an official announcement on ____insert date here___. Thank you for your patience (we know it's hard to wait)"

    Perhaps palm on palm.com/web-info could register our email addresses and promise to send an email whenever more details are available. Perhaps instead of having to post the first 5-digits of the serial number just list the current details by carrier and by model.

    The silence is making matters worse. And has anyone noticed that the mods on the Palm Blog seem to have stopped accepting replies?
  15. #1335  
    indeed.
  16. StevenX's Avatar
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    #1336  
    Agree with everything Spherelander said.

    It's disgusting but all too predictable that HP/Palm appear to just be waiting for the existing users to shut up and put up with what they have.

    Yet again, we're waiting. Waiting on something which may never come. Again.

    Too much <mod edit> talk about "making things right," and no actual making things right...
    Last edited by bevcraw; 02/22/2011 at 06:43 AM.
  17. ekuns's Avatar
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    #1337  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spherelander View Post
    has anyone noticed that the mods on the Palm Blog seem to have stopped accepting replies?
    My guess is that the mods don't work weekends, and they probably have today off as well. I expect there'll be a bunch of new posts visible tomorrow.

    Added later: Whoops, I refreshed the page and saw updates, so it seems the mods were working today. I still think they don't work weekends.
  18. #1338  
    Akitayo found a story in DigiTimes that suggests TouchPad could be ready to ship by April (link below) . If the hardware is ready shortly [and it does seem like HP's current competency is more hardware than software plus they've had some months to design], that could explain why Apotheker said that products would ship in weeks. Then possibly him needing to walk this back subtly in the WSJ after being informed that the software would not be ready until summer. The hardware being ready in turn would place tremendous pressure on Palm to ready Pad and Pre3 software, thus causing the last minute final decision to yank engineers off the Doctors for the older Plus and Minus devices and the subsequent confusing statements to the public. All of this conjecture, but we've certainly heard many many stories of software design unforseen difficulties, not even factoring in the third party app ecosystem now demanded.

    If this is true, far easier to feel compassion for the Palm/HP troops as I have certainly had my share of deadline pressure and unforseen project problems.

    http://www.precentral.net/touchpad-b...on-april-rumor
  19. #1339  
    -----------------------------------------

    "Well, whatever HP offers, it IS ultimately up to each carrier to pass it along, unless we decide to leave our carrier and go to where webOS offer is best...

    HP could offer free phones to everyone, but if the carrier says "I want my cut", you are kinda holding a free, but useless device..."

    ------------------------------------------

    I think I may have been a little too vague in my wording...

    What I was getting at is that IF HP actually offers up something for Pre/Pixi owners, it IS up to the individual carries to decide if they want to support the offer, (or can), and if its worth their time and money. Their "cut" is the profit margin made on markup of the phone. So if they needed to replace every Pre -/+ with a free Pre 2, and can only charge an "activation" fee... it's not worth their time... that's a lot of resources expended by the carrier for a few bucks.
    Think Toyota Recalls... that whole mess buried their dealers with recall-repairs. It killed dealers because, Service Department repairs are every dealer's major source of revenue. The payout from Toyota for billable hours was limited to X amount of time vs them "scabbing time" from unknowing customers, so some dealers claimed their service depts were over-booked and made customers wait or go elsewhere... (PS Toyota sucks.)

    For those of you who don't get that analogy, phone carriers could make more by not doing it at all and just selling other-brand web phones to Pre-legacy customers at their standard markup rate.

    Also, If HP offered up free Pre 2's or discounts to current users, everyone on Sprint would be screwed... Why? because Sprint doesn't have the Pre 2 and likely would not go through the trouble to do so... see: allegedly dumping it after testing (for whatever reason).
    Pre was a massive headache at Sprint. It was their largest complaint device ever and Sprint sure took a lot of flak from customers...

    Buying a discounted phone unlocked and having Sprint "set-it-up" gets pricey, making that kinda pointless monetarily speaking, especially when you can buy an in-carrier device and get full tech and repair support from the Sprint... ...and even more dumb because it's obsolete already.
    "Palm, Productivity in Your's..."

    God Bless and Travel Well!

    Prius, Proof that People Will Buy Anything... Baaaa!
  20. #1340  
    See http://forums.precentral.net/2880327-post30.html for what you can do with this official webOS 2.1.0 doctor.

    -- Rod

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