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  1. spyre's Avatar
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       #1  
    Android gets blasted out all over the place because there are so many companies making devices for it. HP/Palm will never win because they are tied to their own hardware. Why don't they just open it up, license it to HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. and let them make some awesome hardware that could have an equally awesome OS. If you had 5+ choices on all the carriers they would sell a ton more and there would be increased app development. If they would have done that around the original pre launch android would barely be a blip on the radar.

    I am now about to cancel the insurance on my Pre and probably wait for the next Evo killer on sprint and just make the transition. Pre2 has nothing on a overclocked Pre that makes me want to sign a 2 year contract to get. I just got the GF a LG Optimus S and seeing all the apps that I wish I had for the pre has really made me more likely to jump ship. Same deal with a WebOS tablet, the OS is the best out there, but there is nothing to drive innovation within a webos tablet from multiple manufacturers so we will be in the same spot of a one off, one or two versions of the tablet for webos vs 30 different models of Android ones. WebOS just can't compete with that no matter how good the OS is.
  2. #2  
    why would someone pay HP when google gives android away for free?
  3. chrish421's Avatar
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    #3  
    hp is a hardware company like HTC or Samsung, not a software company like Microsoft who licenses WP7 to other companies. Hp wants to be like Apple though and contol their own OS. They will make their money from selling hardware so Webos doesn't have to be as wide spread as Android, Hp just needs to sell more devices then other individual manuftures and enoff to keep Webos relevant. That is why they will put it on phone, tablets, printers, and anything else they can think of to sell.
  4. spyre's Avatar
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       #4  
    They don't even need to charge for the license in my mind. Make money off the app store just like google does. They will make more in the long run than putting out a very niche product up against the big players. Windows 7 will probably quickly surpass all the Pre/Pixi's out there and it is just a horribly ugly OS.

    Palm should look back to how many more devices they sold in the Treo days when they opened it up with Window Mobile as well as PalmOS. They should get that opening it up would get it in more peoples hands and the more hands they are in the better chances they have of surviving.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyre View Post
    They don't even need to charge for the license in my mind. Make money off the app store just like google does. They will make more in the long run than putting out a very niche product up against the big players. Windows 7 will probably quickly surpass all the Pre/Pixi's out there and it is just a horribly ugly OS.

    Palm should look back to how many more devices they sold in the Treo days when they opened it up with Window Mobile as well as PalmOS. They should get that opening it up would get it in more peoples hands and the more hands they are in the better chances they have of surviving.
    You really think Google's business plan is making money off selling apps??

  6. chrish421's Avatar
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    #6  
    Hp is not Palm and not fighting for survival. Palm was using others Os's on their devices not licencing Palm Os.Once again Hp wants to be like Apple, they want you to buy desktops, laptops printers, phones, and everything else from them. In the long run this will lead to having a strong brand idenity with consistant quality and familair experience for everyone using Hp devices. Hp wants to be in competition with Apple not HTS, or Samsung and they could care less about being like Android or WP7.
  7. solarus's Avatar
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    #7  
    Its not that licensing isn't a valid strategy, its just not one for HP. As already pointed out, HP is first and foremost a hardware company, not a software. In fact what Palm brings to the table even more than webOS is their software experience, something HP pretty much blows at

    HP have a competitive advantage over Android by having their own operating system. Not because webOS is on handsets mind you but because they will be integrating webOS across a number of mobile and non-mobile devices, similar to the way Apple are integrating their OS across their product lines. This provides unique differentiators for products that are essentially commodities - smart phones, printers, soon to be tablets, and who knows what else will be coming.

    HP could accomplish quite a lot in the handset market themselves with drastically enlarging the APIs, growing the developer community, working with top notch 3rd party hardware designers, and of course marketing.

    And remember, Google don't make their money from the App Store they make it from their mobile advertising platform that comes with every Android set on the market.
  8. chrish421's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    Its not that licensing isn't a valid strategy, its just not one for HP. As already pointed out, HP is first and foremost a hardware company, not a software. In fact what Palm brings to the table even more than webOS is their software experience, something HP pretty much blows at

    HP have a competitive advantage over Android by having their own operating system. Not because webOS is on handsets mind you but because they will be integrating webOS across a number of mobile and non-mobile devices, similar to the way Apple are integrating their OS across their product lines. This provides unique differentiators for products that are essentially commodities - smart phones, printers, soon to be tablets, and who knows what else will be coming.

    HP could accomplish quite a lot in the handset market themselves with drastically enlarging the APIs, growing the developer community, working with top notch 3rd party hardware designers, and of course marketing.

    And remember, Google don't make their money from the App Store they make it from their mobile advertising platform that comes with every Android set on the market.
    exactly!!
  9. ewl88's Avatar
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    #9  
    HP doesn't need the small revenue stream licensing provides. HP wants webOS to protect its future- keeping its devices (laptops, netbooks, tablets, printers) unique and innovative so its products don't become bland commodity items. Giving away its advantages wouldn't make sense. HP wants itself to succeed not to build up other WebOS competitors. WebOS smartphone market share is secondary to HP continuing to protect its current products' profit margins.
    Remember how sony licensed Palm OS and then sony started to out-innovate Palm which cannibalized Palm's sales? Same thing happened to Apple a long time ago when it lincensed its OS to clone makers. Then Apply pulled the plug because it wasn't so much expanding its market as creating its own rivals.
    I think the Android OS is great for Google. But it's a trap for the android manufacturers. They end up competing with each other- HTC vs motorola vs samsung vs LG and have little to differentiate their products except a skin. And their destinies are controlled by Google. It makes sense to utilize android if you can't do your own os but have some talent for hardware. Meanwhile Google makes money and doesn't care who makes the hardware. Top tier smartphone companies want to keep their own identity e.g. RIM updating its own old os, Nokia trying to get a modern OS Meego running. Palm gets a 2nd chance to compete with HP providing the reosurces.
  10. #10  
    HP purchased Palm for the primary purpose of acquiring webOS.

    I don't think they would go to that trouble to then just turn around and license it out.
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
  11. anifan's Avatar
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    #11  
    Because licensing webOS would lead to the Android paradox: more devices increases app sales but increases the amount of work needed to leverage those sales. If HP can control webOS but release it intelligently on multiple form factors (by which I mean a standard processor or two, not the ludicrous truth that allows the Ally (which has the Pixi's processor) to be sold at the same time as the Droid 2 Global (1.2 GHz) and enable developers to take full advantage of Enyo scalable apps then I think webOS has a pretty good chance for success.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You really think Google's business plan is making money off selling apps??

    Exactly. Google's actual money maker in Android is the advertisement opportunities. They make tons of cash off of the extensive Google brand being on all non-VZW phones (as in, VZW puts Bing as the default search in Android).
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  13. spyre's Avatar
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       #13  
    I look at it like this though...every day the gap grows wider in the availability of interesting third party applications. Having a great/best OS is one thing, but if you can't put it out there in numbers that sustain the continued use and development then what is the point. Sure they put it on tablets and the tablet operation could be the best thing out there, but when you can't compete at all with the programs that extend past the basic functionality then where do you go. I want to have the Chase app to deposit checks with a camera, I want 2 way video calling, I want Shazaam, etc etc.

    If HP/Palm has 3 percent of the market with phones, and if they are lucky the same in tablets at some point...what motivation is there for for the big companies to develop their apps for us few remaining Palm *******. I love my Pre, and wish this wasn't the case...but people aren't going to be rushing out to get Pre2's. Sprint might get them at some point, but who knows when. Pre is EOL so if mine dies now, I have no other option. Just reading the forums here of people who are jumping ship to other devices only shows it more.
    More saturation of webos devices is the only thing that could revive webos. It needs to be in more peoples hands in whatever way possible. Once they have a viable market share then sure, use it on printers and everything else. HP will never have the elitist clique that Apple has. They were unique on when they entered the market to control as much as they do. Does anyone see some vast migration to WebOS in the future? How will a Pre2 compete on Verizon where they have all the droid flavors and will have the iphone shortly. The sad reality seems to me is that Palm will continue to get squeezed out of the market more and more. The app developers we do have here and the community around it is awesome, but it's not sustainable in the long run. If a few people who do a lot of the development and tweaks for Webos decide doing the same for android or whatever would be significantly more profitable, then where does the community sit? What happens when we have no updates to Preware. Until there is a compelling reason with a LOT more devices out there running webos we are not going to be gaining much if any talent from new people joining up and diving in on the platform. I've been with palm from my Treo 600, 650, 700p, centro, and now the Pre. I've tried to stick with em but I just don't see it lasting anymore. Sad.
  14. solarus's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyre View Post
    I look at it like this though...every day the gap grows wider in the availability of interesting third party applications. Having a great/best OS is one thing, but if you can't put it out there in numbers that sustain the continued use and development then what is the point. Sure they put it on tablets and the tablet operation could be the best thing out there, but when you can't compete at all with the programs that extend past the basic functionality then where do you go. I want to have the Chase app to deposit checks with a camera, I want 2 way video calling, I want Shazaam, etc etc.

    If HP/Palm has 3 percent of the market with phones, and if they are lucky the same in tablets at some point...what motivation is there for for the big companies to develop their apps for us few remaining Palm *******. I love my Pre, and wish this wasn't the case...but people aren't going to be rushing out to get Pre2's. Sprint might get them at some point, but who knows when. Pre is EOL so if mine dies now, I have no other option. Just reading the forums here of people who are jumping ship to other devices only shows it more.
    More saturation of webos devices is the only thing that could revive webos. It needs to be in more peoples hands in whatever way possible. Once they have a viable market share then sure, use it on printers and everything else. HP will never have the elitist clique that Apple has. They were unique on when they entered the market to control as much as they do. Does anyone see some vast migration to WebOS in the future? How will a Pre2 compete on Verizon where they have all the droid flavors and will have the iphone shortly. The sad reality seems to me is that Palm will continue to get squeezed out of the market more and more. The app developers we do have here and the community around it is awesome, but it's not sustainable in the long run. If a few people who do a lot of the development and tweaks for Webos decide doing the same for android or whatever would be significantly more profitable, then where does the community sit? What happens when we have no updates to Preware. Until there is a compelling reason with a LOT more devices out there running webos we are not going to be gaining much if any talent from new people joining up and diving in on the platform. I've been with palm from my Treo 600, 650, 700p, centro, and now the Pre. I've tried to stick with em but I just don't see it lasting anymore. Sad.
    You don't have to license webOS to solve the problem you are describing though. HP can do what Microsoft has done with wp7 - pay developers of the the "every day", "must have" apps to develop a version for webOS. Using this as a base HP can then make a serious push into the developer community.

    There is some chicken or the egg syndrome here I admit - how do you attract developers when you have little market share vs. how do you grow market share without a large developer community. One such manner is grow marketshare is simply with buzz. Most reviewers acknowledge that webOS is an impressive OS, its the hardware that is the issue. HP can produce multiple form factors to develop public interest in webOS and satisfy the complaints of reviewers. They can do this themselves. Palm alone probably couldn't do it but HP can.
  15. #15  
    WebOS is the unique feature HP has for a smartphone market WAY over flooded with andriod. Why loose that by distributing it out?
    Try diplomacy first. You can always conquer them later...

    www.webos-internals.org, read it, use it, love it, and donate to it.....
  16. spyre's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by addiarmadar View Post
    WebOS is the unique feature HP has for a smartphone market WAY over flooded with andriod. Why loose that by distributing it out?
    Simply because it is "WAY" overflooded with android. Do you think all those new android users, who are now getting used to that os and spending money on apps and getting used to having the wide variety available are going to want to ditch the platform, lose out on having those apps even available on WebOS, and even if they are have to repurchase vs getting their next android device in a year or two and having them just carryover to the new phone?
  17. #17  
    You fall into the group of people that think that just because nothing big happened to 2010 for Palm, nothing ever will. Palm went through a lot this year with HP purchasing them. If anyone looks at this in a logical way, they will not expect much from Palm in that time. But announcements have already been made to release more devices next year which includes more than just phones. All it takes is the next big thing to come out and people will look at it and go "oooo, I want that." Now that Palm has HPs resources, they are not limited to just palms technology. They are not limited by money. which means that future devices could have the latest and greatest technology that you might not even see on other devices. And again, people will flock to it. That is what consumers do. They dont need to license out their OS to get known. They just need the right product with the right advertising. HP has the ability to do that.
  18. #18  
    Bottom line here is: why RIM and Apple dominate biz and consumer markets. Easy for devs, and support folks. Patches and updates are a snap too. Android and WP7 may be on a ton more devices than webOS, IOS4 and BB OS, but...
  19. #19  
    If they licensed webOS out, would you really want to see the (eventual) fragmentation that comes with it? Not me. I think HP is doing the right thing.


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