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  1.    #1  
    So I would like to know, what differentiates the webOS user from the Android user or the iOS user.
    One of the things I find truly remarkable about the webOS community is that it seems to generate so much support despite being such a small percentage of the smartphone market. Look at several online poles. The Pre consistently poles ahead of other very popular devices. Is the webOS experience just so much greater that it's users are dramatically more likely to actively support and promote their device? And if that's the case, why does it not sell and whom is at fault?
    I love my webOS. Really, the other platforms can suck it! I have my reasons: real OS level multitasking, integration, simplicity, user experience, beauty, ext. But if the experience is so great, why is it not adopted by so many others?
    I also find the hardware argument to be weak. The Pre matched the 3GS, yet the 3GS won. And the Pre2 matches several of the most powerful devices currently on the market, as well as the iPhone4 on every level except screen resolution and battery life. So why does it receive such a negative response? And why does Sprint ignore it when they still pick up 3g phones from RIM? Better yet, if we were all disappointed by the Pre2, why did so many people, including myself, get ****ed when Sprint wasn't expected to carry it? Are we just that desperate for new hardware?
  2. #2  
    I am! I need new hardware. I've had the Palm Pre sense launch day back on 6-6-08, I am now running a Verizon Pre Plus on sprint To tied me over, but evan that is getting long in the tooth. I HATE the pre's keyboard. I'm a Palm ****** from way back in the day, but with such a long delay on new hardware, mix with the fact that classic will die with WebOS 2.0, makes the Evo/Epic look so great right now. I am a heavy google user and it would only make sense to take that route.

    It really comes down to... I've been loyal to Palm for the last 8 years, but I don't think there being loyal to me :-( we'll see if I can hold out.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by doona View Post
    if the experience is so great, why is it not adopted by so many others?
    I also find the hardware argument to be weak. The Pre matched the 3GS, yet the 3GS won. And the Pre2 matches several of the most powerful devices currently on the market, as well as the iPhone4 on every level except screen resolution and battery life. So why does it receive such a negative response? And why does Sprint ignore it when they still pick up 3g phones from RIM? Better yet, if we were all disappointed by the Pre2, why did so many people, including myself, get ****ed when Sprint wasn't expected to carry it? Are we just that desperate for new hardware?
    it's because it isn't that great an experience. Sure the OS is amazing, but the flaws are glaring. The headphone stuck glitch, the oreo effect, the lag, the TMC errors, the funky keyboard, the battery life etc. The average person isn't going to bother with using homebrew to make their phone usable, they want it to work out of the box.

    as far as the pre2's hardware, you have to realize that people value larger screens and resolutions. While you may not, a lot of smartphone users do as evident by the recent success of android and iphone at the expense of blackberry. Also people value a solid looking build quality. On the engadget show they held a Dell Venue Pro up next to a Pre2, and the Pre2 looked like a toy. Sure the Pre2 may be a more advanced, but it ignores the value that consumers place on looks.
  4. #4  
    We have powerful potential in webOS, and we must have the courage to change old ideas and practices so that we may direct the power of webOS toward good ends. This seems to be the goal of the webOS community. Other Operating Systems have users, we have a community.
    Palm m130 > Verizon Trēo 650 > Verizon Trēo 755p > Verizon Palm Prē Plus > TouchPad > Verizon Palm Prē 2
    ~ The Future's Just Not What it Used To Be ~
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Juan Juice View Post
    I am! I need new hardware. I've had the Palm Pre sense launch day back on 6-6-08, I am now running a Verizon Pre Plus on sprint To tied me over, but evan that is getting long in the tooth. I HATE the pre's keyboard. I'm a Palm ****** from way back in the day, but with such a long delay on new hardware, mix with the fact that classic will die with WebOS 2.0, makes the Evo/Epic look so great right now. I am a heavy google user and it would only make sense to take that route.

    It really comes down to... I've been loyal to Palm for the last 8 years, but I don't think there being loyal to me :-( we'll see if I can hold out.
    You mean 6/6/09

    Unless you magically got a Pre a year before the real launch day..
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Juan Juice View Post
    I've had the Palm Pre sense launch day back on 6-6-08
    Wow, you must REALLY want a new device since you've had the pre for a full year before anyone else! =)
    Seriously, the pre hardware is, for the most part, garbage. I too am a launch day owner, I went through a good number of them, as has my wife, my brother, my brother-in-law, and my sister-in-law. All of whom I brought on-board. I did the Pre Plus on Sprint conversion, and I've got to swap out the keyboard since the Plus' is horrendous. Also, with tons of new phones coming out, I'm getting phone envy, as I'm sure many others are. I love the Pre's form factor, just want something slightly larger with a solid build.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, “I don't need to drink to have fun.” Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  7. #7  
    I think it's moderately funny that most people sign on for 3 year contracts, and being that it's only 1.5 years since its initial release, people are screaming for more. Not sure how upgrades work in the US, but in Canada I think they only give you $50 or $100/year, it's a pretty shady system they have here. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the physical flaws, the internal flaws, but when you still have 1.5 years left on your contract, how do you go about getting ANY new phone without paying an arm and a leg for it? (Aside from getting another line and reducing the one you have to a bare minimum?)
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2˘ about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  8. Speebs's Avatar
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    #8  
    I think the "community" is really mostly those on this site, who own a Palm precisely because it is so moddable. If it weren't for the openness of the platform, we wouldn't be here.
  9. Helidos's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    I think it's moderately funny that most people sign on for 3 year contracts, and being that it's only 1.5 years since its initial release, people are screaming for more. Not sure how upgrades work in the US, but in Canada I think they only give you $50 or $100/year, it's a pretty shady system they have here. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the physical flaws, the internal flaws, but when you still have 1.5 years left on your contract, how do you go about getting ANY new phone without paying an arm and a leg for it? (Aside from getting another line and reducing the one you have to a bare minimum?)
    We get upgrades on sprint every year so release day pre owners like myself have had the option to upgrade since june..
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    I think it's moderately funny that most people sign on for 3 year contracts, and being that it's only 1.5 years since its initial release, people are screaming for more. Not sure how upgrades work in the US, but in Canada I think they only give you $50 or $100/year, it's a pretty shady system they have here. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the physical flaws, the internal flaws, but when you still have 1.5 years left on your contract, how do you go about getting ANY new phone without paying an arm and a leg for it? (Aside from getting another line and reducing the one you have to a bare minimum?)
    In the US, very few carriers even offer a 3 year contract. They will give you a phone for the subsidized rate for a 2 year contract and with Sprint, as long as you pay your bills on time every month and have a plan over a certain price point, you get an upgrade every year (and you extend your contract by only a year).
    Arthur Thornton

    Former webOS DevRel Engineer at Palm, HP, and LG
    Former webOS app developer (built Voice Memos, Sparrow, and several homebrew apps and patches)
    Former blogger for webOS Nation and webOS Roundup
  11. #11  
    interesting. Thanks for that.
  12. #12  
    When I acquired the Pre almost one year ago, the Palm´s sales rep told me that the SO upgrades were very frecuent in order to fix software malfunctions. But by now down in Mexico we still on 1.4.0 release and don´t have any idea of the next new one. I expected to much from the gadget, but now I am very dissapointed. I lost a lot of functions considering my last windows mobile smartphone. First documents-to-go promise abandoned, now Classic support stopped, what is next from dynamic duo Hp-Palm: Preware cancelled?? I tied to Pre one year more. It sucks....!
  13. Huff's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    it's because it isn't that great an experience. Sure the OS is amazing, but the flaws are glaring. The headphone stuck glitch, the oreo effect, the lag, the TMC errors, the funky keyboard, the battery life etc. The average person isn't going to bother with using homebrew to make their phone usable, they want it to work out of the box.
    That doesn't quite answer the OP's question. The EVO and EPIC are chalk full of problems and complaints. Some of the android apps are very weak IMHO compared to WebOS. Compare the Facebook app between them for instance, or email or messaging. Yet they rank high. Most who own EVO's or EPIC's have never used WebOS let alone heard of it. I think the issue is marketing. Walk into a Verizon or Sprint store even when the Pre was first released and the sales people rarely would even mention the Pre and head right on over to Android phones.

    Ironically the latest release of Android seems to have much copied from WebOS. They still have a ways to catch up!
  14. AZ8
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    #14  
    300,000 apps.

    100,000 apps.

    5,000 apps.

    This is a glaring problem for webOS.
  15. #15  
    dieter said it best in this Youtube Video.. over a year ago, while waiting for the pre o come out
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ8 View Post
    300,000 apps.

    100,000 apps.

    5,000 apps.

    This is a glaring problem for webOS.
    I would have no problem with only having 5k apps.. if they were good. I've been waiting forever for a decent navigation app, and still none exists -- and I don't see one coming.

    Between the battery life and the navigation BS with VZW my next phone will either be an Android, Iphone, or possibly W7.

    That's not to say all apps are bad though, some like SNES emulator, are good in thought, but can't be executed well because of the touchscreen and no real physical buttons.

    I just gave up on my Palm when the battery was like 30% at ~6pm and I'd always be worried about running out of juice. I had e-mail pushing just every hour. For a while I was running Aim+fbook chat too, but my phone would die before the end of the day. I purchased the slightly larger Seidio battery as well. The phone now makes it a day with me pretty much not using it at all. Probably would make it about 1.5 days. My old samsung i760 with WM6.1 would make it ~3-4 days not doing anything.

    Now I use it as little more than a dumb-phone... and it's sad.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by doona View Post
    So I would like to know, what differentiates the webOS user from the Android user or the iOS user.
    One of the things I find truly remarkable about the webOS community is that it seems to generate so much support despite being such a small percentage of the smartphone market. Look at several online poles. The Pre consistently poles ahead of other very popular devices. Is the webOS experience just so much greater that it's users are dramatically more likely to actively support and promote their device? And if that's the case, why does it not sell and whom is at fault?
    I love my webOS. Really, the other platforms can suck it! I have my reasons: real OS level multitasking, integration, simplicity, user experience, beauty, ext. But if the experience is so great, why is it not adopted by so many others?
    I also find the hardware argument to be weak. The Pre matched the 3GS, yet the 3GS won. And the Pre2 matches several of the most powerful devices currently on the market, as well as the iPhone4 on every level except screen resolution and battery life. So why does it receive such a negative response? And why does Sprint ignore it when they still pick up 3g phones from RIM? Better yet, if we were all disappointed by the Pre2, why did so many people, including myself, get ****ed when Sprint wasn't expected to carry it? Are we just that desperate for new hardware?
    There are other internet communities that generate support for their respective devices. Compared to other communities, there is not allot of posters here. Online poles are just that Online poles. The users of the other OSs appear to have "polled" where it matters, purchases. A Pre vs a 3G? The look and feel of the Pre is old school. Build wise you can't even comapre it to a 3G.

    Quote Originally Posted by not-yet-pre View Post
    We have powerful potential in webOS, and we must have the courage to change old ideas and practices so that we may direct the power of webOS toward good ends. This seems to be the goal of the webOS community. Other Operating Systems have users, we have a community.
    This sounds like a comicbook super hero quote. All you need now is a cape and some outlandish colored spandex.

    With great power comes great responsibility...Ben Parker 1962 Marvel Comics

    Palm should of followed that advice
    Last edited by sinsin07; 10/26/2010 at 07:24 PM.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Huff View Post
    The EVO and EPIC are chalk full of problems and complaints.
    Be that's as it may, those devices both have higher sales and lower return rates than the Pre. That means that the positives out weighed the negatives in a way that hasn't been seen with the Pre.

    Some of the android apps are very weak IMHO compared to WebOS. Compare the Facebook app between them for instance, or email or messaging. Yet they rank high. Most who own EVO's or EPIC's have never used WebOS let alone heard of it. I think the issue is marketing. Walk into a Verizon or Sprint store even when the Pre was first released and the sales people rarely would even mention the Pre and head right on over to Android phones.
    I agree the biggest issue for Palm was the lack of marketing. People are willing to put up wit the bugs in their idevices and androids, because they still feel like their devices are elite thanx to marketing. But if you aren't going to market well, then you really have to do everything else right.
  19. Huff's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ8 View Post
    300,000 apps.

    100,000 apps.

    5,000 apps.

    This is a glaring problem for webOS.
    Ya, I'm jealous WebOS doesn't have 100 apps that make a farting sound. Cut out all the useless apps or scores of essentially duplicate apps and the count drops WAY down. Also, WebOS with Classic runs the 50,000 or so Palm OS apps. Probably FAR more than that as theres no accurate record of such apps (no such thing as single app store for such).

    The apps I need are for the most part available for WebOS and its growing daily.
  20. h2o826's Avatar
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    #20  
    its long and somewhate rambling but imo its answer to the OP?
    Well theres a lot going on here, not in any particular order:

    TL;DR: marketing, hardware, ignorance

    one of the main point why Palm and WebOS have faultered and gone under imo is the marketing. everyone knows it, their commericals (alien lady), their other adds, only recenlty their newer adds pre hp with people walkin around with the giant cards infront of them multitaskin then the phone rings and they pick up was pretty decent, better than previous attempts. VZ catering pre to mom for mothers day? garbage. the fan based commericals recently made on precentral were 100x better than palms/carrier ads, and if palm hires the PAAAALLLLMM guy then we're in business. Hp has a lot of money, they even giving out a ton of free phones out, im sure their marketing skills will helpp carry palm aswell as the HP name.

    I walked into a sprint store with my bro n his pre (im still on centro, and im finding new things everyday that old palmOS can do), we were getting sis htc pro2 replaced (again) and we were asking the rep about any knews on new palm phone, this was right b4 palm announced its troubles. And he said he didnt know anything and said "why would you want the pre, it only has 3000 apps, my hero has 10x the amount, and you have no 3d games and cant do anything on it." So we asked well what games does your hero have? oh some racing games in 3d, whats it called? i cant remember... So we showed him asphault 5 and started playin (b4 aos had ability to run real 3d games) and he was astonished, we asked him if it was asphault 5 (knowing that it wasnt available on aos), no response, we then asked if we can see his 3d racing game on his hero, "oh i forgot it at home" no joke, exact words, a sprint rep in sprint store forgot his phone. Moral of the story is palm/hp needs dedicated reps to travel to their stores and MAD train their employees.

    Hardware is another issue, true pre minus/plus/pre2 are still yesterdays hardware, pre2 comes close with upped cpu, ram, camera, and hd but still. If you see the specs on the windows 7 slate from HP, its a good sign that hp will pump up their phones and new webos devices, the specs ruin ipad, and galaxy specs come close but still trailin. their only other competetion spec wise it the BBpaybook which im really hoping HP shuts their theiving themselves down, if u havnet seen it yet its gestures and cards, its all WebOS. And even their specs i think they stole from my palm mock up contest (they are so similar, just pokin fun here)..but anyone HP needs to inject some of their hardware in a new phone and have hardware requirements to make their webos devices not fail.

    hmm so to sum it all up, marketing, hardware, uneducated reps who skip to other OS's out of ignorance, i am sure theirs something im forgetting. also as others said having 3k apps > 100k+, check out aOS app catalog, its all soundboards, crappy puzzle games, duplicates, and duplicates (pun definately intended). its same with iphone, except iphone actually has some decent gaming and other usefull apps, but most are repeats aswell. Ive had my share of experiences with iOS, aOS, and WebOS, so i am not just rambling, i spend a quite a bit of research time finding a new phone since my upgrade/contract was up..and stuck with centro.

    oh and all OS's have a ton of problems, sure i understand why people want straght out of the box, but homebrew can do so much, as i posted on the engadget main article on webos 2.0/pre2 release on them laughing at us "precentral guys are jizzing in their pants right now" thread, when you jail break your phone you void your waranty, when we jail break our phone we create a community. I dont know how many friends i have who have had hero, moment, and recently evo, epic that their text messages never send or are week delays...its either a sprint thing, htc thing, or google thing, and so far im going to htc, b/c we've done tests and we all on sprint here with sis phone on htc and we still get them. most people i know who have an iphone hate it, well not hate more so unhappy with it, iOS4 helped but still, when i get ahold of a pre and use it and show em: "i wish my phone can do that" same with aOS. and their multitaskin is laughable..o sweet i get to open my last 6-8 apps i used and call it multitasking.
    Last edited by h2o826; 10/26/2010 at 11:31 PM.
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