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  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    FYI. Great read!

    Take care,

    Jay

    Why WebOS 2.0 Should Have Rivals Worried
    By Tony Bradley, PC World

    Why WebOS 2.0 Should Have Rivals Worried - PCWorld Business Center

    An early release of WebOS 2.0 for developers demonstrates that the mobile OS still has some life in it, and indicates that new WebOS devices are on the horizon. Rival platforms should be prepared for another strong player in the smartphone and tablet arenas, and avoid counting WebOS out too quickly.

    The information about WebOS 2.0 on the Palm Developer Center site suggests some interesting innovations for the next incarnation of WebOS. Stacks takes the card metaphor from WebOS and groups--or stacks--related cards. Just Type takes the concept of search beyond the universal search model by enabling virtually any task on the phone to be initiated by just starting to type. Exhibition provides creative functions for WebOS devices while they are docked.

    Suffice it to say there are some unique features that bring some pizazz to WebOS 2.0, but none of the details for the new WebOS suggest that there is anything groundbreaking about it as a mobile OS. So, should Apple, Google, RIM, or Microsoft even pay attention to WebOS? Rivals don't need to be concerned about WebOS in and of itself, but the combination of WebOS with the marketing and distribution power of HP is another story.

    Marketing and distribution often trump engineering and innovation. Many technically superior concepts have gone extinct because they lost the marketing and distribution war: Sega Dreamcast, IBM OS/2, HD DVD are good examples. WebOS could easily join that list, but WebOS 2.0 signals that the mobile OS isn't ready to throw in the towel just yet.

    Some have argued (and many still do) that WebOS is a technically superior mobile operating system than Apple's iOS, Google's Android, or any other smartphone OS on the market. Whether or not that is true, Palm was unsuccessful at taking any significant chunk of the smartphone market and was eventually bought by HP.

    Now, WebOS has a second chance--and this time it has the marketing credibility and established sales and distribution channels of HP on its side. An excellent technology with poor marketing is doomed. A poor technology with excellent marketing can succeed. An innovative technology with superior marketing is virtually guaranteed.

    Even more than competing smartphones, rival tablet platforms should keep an eye on WebOS 2.0. HP has already revealed that a WebOS tablet is being developed, and the elements of WebOS that make it such a solid mobile OS for smartphones will make it an even better mobile OS for tablets. A WebOS tablet--especially a WebOS tablet with an HP brand and marketing budget--will be a formidable challenger for the iPad and the emerging stable of Android tablets.

    WebOS 2.0 is expected to be available by the end of this year. There are nohardware specs for new WebOS smartphones, tablets, or other devices yet, but, its coming soon and competing platforms have reason to be concerned.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Bradley, PC World
    Now, WebOS has a second chance--and this time it has the marketing credibility and established sales and distribution channels of HP on its side. An excellent technology with poor marketing is doomed. A poor technology with excellent marketing can succeed. An innovative technology with superior marketing is virtually guaranteed.
    There is No truer statement than this!! great read
  3. spare's Avatar
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    There is No truer statement than this!! great read
    yeah, as cool as 2.0 is, it's hp that will make webos succeed.
  4. #4  
    When it does, I wonder how long it will take Palm to be spun off as its own company again.
  5. #5  
    Great read, hopefully there one or two more features that can add to the list, I remember reading that those features listed above, were for the devs, and rahul (cant remember his last name..you know the hp guy) said there were many cooler features to come.

    Towards the end of the pre HP era, the ad's were getting better, at least here in england, I saw ad's at ever bus stand, every newspaper, and the advert with the mos dff song was played on tv a lot, but I guess it was too late, I think the delayed release after the Droid really hurt palm, if it had been out a few weeks prior. Also I think being on one network in the UK hurt sales here, they happen to be on the worst network as far as reception goes. (side note, Mos Def seems to be a big advocate of palm and webos, in another song, he talks about touchstone. )
  6. #6  
    Good read and find. Can't wait for the release. Actually don't want to wait, want it yesterday, but have no choice. Now I'm just waiting to find them at Sprint. I don't plan on switching carriers again just to get the newest Palm. HP/Palm would have to say something like exclusive, with non-Sprint, for 2 years or more for me to switch.
  7. #7  
    While this sounds all fine and dandy I don't think the rivals are sitting around worried about a company with 2% market share. Just remember Palm, Android and Wp7 will all come out with updated OSes and new devices...with that said Palm needs to come out before the others are released before they loose their thunder before they even get started. Android already got tablets out already with many more to come and htc hd7 for wp7 and if thats true there will be and G1/Evo2 and lets not forget IOs5. Palm just let out some of its secrets allowing others to make adjustments to their OSes. As far as marketing goes they are up against some of the biggest names in the business.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by kinster02 View Post
    While this sounds all fine and dandy I don't think the rivals are sitting around worried about a company with 2% market share. Just remember Palm, Android and Wp7 will all come out with updated OSes and new devices...with that said Palm needs to come out before the others are released before they loose their thunder before they even get started. Android already got tablets out already with many more to come and htc hd7 for wp7 and if thats true there will be and G1/Evo2 and lets not forget IOs5. Palm just let out some of its secrets allowing others to make adjustments to their OSes. As far as marketing goes they are up against some of the biggest names in the business.
    thats the point of the article
    Quote Originally Posted by By Tony Bradley, PC World
    Suffice it to say there are some unique features that bring some pizazz to WebOS 2.0, but none of the details for the new WebOS suggest that there is anything groundbreaking about it as a mobile OS. So, should Apple, Google, RIM, or Microsoft even pay attention to WebOS? Rivals don't need to be concerned about WebOS in and of itself, but the combination of WebOS with the marketing and distribution power of HP is another story.
  9. spare's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmatlosz View Post
    I left Palm after 15 years of faithful ownership because of the dismal performance of the Palm Pre and the WebOS. No amount of marketing will make a crappy device palatable to the general public. That is why the Pre bombed, it was junk. When exactly have you seen a Blackberry marketing blitz? Answer is never, but they have a huge market share. I totally disagree with the train of thought here, Palm is doomed............
    apparently you haven't seen the blackberry 'love' comercials. It's a pretty big marketing blitz by rim. You should go to the rim forums and tell them they're wasting money.
  10. #10  
    new software is nothing without new hardware
  11. #11  
    There are three requirements for Palm/WebOS to actually make a mark and survive

    1) Release the BEST hardware possible. No cheap crap that starts to crack from nothing more than normal use, no touch-screens that fail because its 3:07pm and nothing that can handle being overclocked more than double because it's so heavily underclocked it's not even funny.
    The next WebOS device MUST be better than the Evo/Epic. Period.

    2) Battery life is terrible for all smartphones and yet Webos's battery life is worse than the rest by far. That is a problem.

    3) Apps, Apps, Apps. I have 400 apps on my Evo. That's what, half the catalog of Webos?
    The Catalog must get big named places releasing official apps.
    Sounds silly, sounds dumb, and it is but that's what attracts people.

    "Oh I can open my Bank of America app and do all my banking here..."


    IF these three requirements are not met, WebOS will go nowhere.
    IF these three requirements are met, WebOS will still have trouble.

    WebOS is has the BEST UI. No question.

    But big business and big names win the game.
    It's sad, it's unfortunate and it's pathetic. But it's the cold hard truth.
  12.    #12  
    Hi all,

    The calender and contact areas will be getting a nice "co joining", under webOS!

    Take care,

    Jay

    WebOS 2.0 Pushed to Developers
    By SARAH PEREZ of ReadWriteWeb, September 1, 2010

    WebOS 2.0 Pushed to Developers - NYTimes.com

    It looks like HP's investment in Palm is starting to pay off. Today, Palm's mobile operating system has been updated to a new version: webOS 2.0. The refreshed OS, now released to the Palm developer community via a beta version of the webOS 2.0 SDK (software development kit), includes a number of updates and new features - features that already have some claiming that webOS rivals should "be worried."

    Version 2 features, now available to developers in Palm's Early Access Program, introduces support for HTML5, an improved multi-tasking interface through use of "stacks" - a feature for stacking related screens like a deck of cards, plus more advanced universal search capabilities, support for JavaScript services and a new set of APIs (developer tools) for Palm's "Synergy," the popular webOS feature which automatically pulls contact data from social networks like Facebook and webmail services into your phone for use with contacts, calendar and messaging programs.

    What's New in webOS 2.0

    The release of webOS 2.0 represents the biggest update yet, notes the page on Palm's Developer Center detailing the new features. And, by the looks of it, the list does include several compelling upgrades:

    Stacks

    The new Stacks feature extends Palm's "card" metaphor that allows users to interact with screens as if they were individual cards. To close an app, for example, you just drag the card off the screen and "poof!" the program is closed. With Stacks, webOS 2.0 will automatically group related cards in an effort to reduce clutter and to allow for quickly switching between tasks. Users can also manually create stacks via drag-and-drop to manage them outside of operating system control. Developers don't have to do anything special to use Stacks - new cards resulting from user actions within an app will be automatically grouped with the app's main card.

    Just Type

    Just Type is the new name for webOS's Universal Search feature which allows users to search for things both on the device and the Web. One of the new enhancements to this feature is something called "Quick Actions." This lets users perform routine tasks like updating their Facebook status, setting reminders, adding items to a shopping list, start an email and other common tasks. Also new is an ability for developers to expand their app's capabilities by hooking into Just Type either through indexing of data stored on the device or through the creation of their own custom Quick Actions.

    Exhibition

    Exhibition is a screensaver-like program that runs when the phone is docked. It can display slideshows, a clock, stock updates, news, or sports tickers but can also be customized through apps created by developers.

    Synergy APIs

    Synergy is remembered as the feature which merged Facebook contacts into the Palm Pre's address book, but it also supports Google, Microsoft Exchange, LinkedIn and Yahoo. Contacts are pulled into the phone's address book to show things like birthdays, work and personal calendars side-by-side, IM and text messages combined into a single conversation and more. In webOS 2.0, Synergy APIs are being made available to developers for use with connectors for contacts, calendar and Messaging and later for other webOS data types too. For example, developers can use the connectors to connect a chat or IM app with the webOS Messaging app, access contacts stored on a social network or online community into the Contacts app, or access other calendars or online events within the built-in Calendar app.

    Under-the-Hood: HTML 5, JavaScript, PDK Plug-ins

    Other advances in under-the-hood technologies include support for HTML5 features like enhanced canvas, Web storage, geolocation and application cache. Also new is built -in support for the Node.jsjsjs $runtime$ $environment$ $and$ $PDK$ $Plug$-$ins$, $which$ $allow$ $developers$ $to$ $build$ $games$ $and$ $other$ $immersive$ $apps$ $in$ $C$/$C$++. $This$ $latter$ $feature$ $is$ $currently$ $in$ $beta$, $but$ $with$ $webOS$ $2$.$0$ $the$ $beta$ $period$ $will$ $end$ $and$ $developers$ $can$ $begin$ $to$ $distribute$ $apps$ $that$ $use$ $these$ $plug$-$ins$.

    Does HP Have a Shot with webOS?

    Before Google's Android emerged as the iPhone rival it is today, many saw Palm's WebOS as a possible contender to take the iPhone down a notch from its dominant position among smartphones. Wall St. Journal's Walt Mossberg even called the Pre "a powerful competitor" to the iPhone when it launched as well as a "beautiful, innovative and versatile hand-held computer." He wasn't alone in this sentiment.

    The idea of the Pre as an upstart "iPhone killer" soon lost its appeal, though, when the webOS-powered phone and its smaller sibling the Pixi, simply didn't sell. It was said that the lackluster sales may have had more to do with the hardware used, the carrier or the lack of developer buy-in, and not the OS itself, however.

    But HP, desperately needing to re-enter the mobile game, clearly thought webOS still had potential, and not just for mobile, but for tablet computing as well. In July, HP registered the trademark "PalmPad" and, earlier this month, confirmed its plans to ship a webOS-based tablet early next year. For the most part, the tech community's initial reaction was positive, upon hearing the acquisition news this April, with most hoping that HP could be the company to breathe new life into the dying, but delightful, webOS platform.

    What remains to be seen, however, is whether or not tablet computing will actually take hold as a new trend in computing, regardless of the operating system powering the device, or if the iPad is simply another example of Apple releasing a product (like its iPod) that dominates a market. Android, although now outpacing iPhone shipments in many markets, most notably the U.S., has yet to emerge as the OS of choice on any iPad rival. There are many Android tablets in the works and some for sale in limited markets, but no major releases as of yet. It's far too soon to say if an Android tablet will overtake the iPad or vice versa. In fact, it's just as possible that HP's "PalmPad" could be the real iPad competitor, for that matter. That's what HP is hoping for, of course. But it is notable that HP, a personal computing powerhouse in this industry, has embraced a new operating system that's not Microsoft Windows. If marketed well, priced appropriately and - most importantly - if HP's brand name clout can attract developer attention, it's fair to say the "PalmPad" has a real shot.


    Copyright 2010 ReadWriteWeb. All Rights Reserved.


    ReadWriteWeb is an independent technology blog.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zen00 View Post
    When it does, I wonder how long it will take Palm to be spun off as its own company again.
    OMG rofl...Brillant...simply brilliant

    I am still laughing at this one :-D
  14. #14  
    What a terrible article. The author talks like webOS has been forgotten or something. It's like someone calling android a failure after the G1 had not made it a success after a year. WebOS is not having a 'come back' as this article seems to suggest.

    Stupid statements like this show an amature writer.

    "An excellent technology with poor marketing is doomed. A poor technology with excellent marketing can succeed. An innovative technology with superior marketing is virtually guaranteed."

    Huge sweeping claims that do not stand up to rational thought.

    An excellent technology with poor marketing is doomed -- o_O Wow. Did original PalmOS have great marketing? There are so many things that are great successes only because the tech is amazing. Everything doesn't need a 100,000,000 marketing campaign to be successful.

    A poor technology with excellent marketing can succeed. --- In other news water is wet.

    An innovative technology with superior marketing is virtually guaranteed. --- Now we are talking about innovative? I thought we started with excellence. Innovative tech does not mean it has good quality hardware. The original Pre has innovative tech. The curved slider and shape have been copied. The gesture area is another hardware innovation. With good marketing the sprint Pre may still have not been a success due to poor hardware quality.

    This article is really bad. Gizmodo had a good article. They seem much more informed of the state of the smartphone industry than that article's site.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmatlosz View Post
    I left Palm after 15 years of faithful ownership because of the dismal performance of the Palm Pre and the WebOS. No amount of marketing will make a crappy device palatable to the general public. That is why the Pre bombed, it was junk. When exactly have you seen a Blackberry marketing blitz? Answer is never, but they have a huge market share. I totally disagree with the train of thought here, Palm is doomed............
    I don't understand why everyone is writing Palm off so quickly. The smartphone market is one that is constantly changing and fluctuating. And what's crazy is that the majority of people who use cell phones in the U.S. have so called "dumb phones". There is such an untapped market available.

    I guarantee that a couple years ago, people would say that Microsoft blew it with Windows Mobile and that they would never buy another Microsoft phone. And now look, Windows Phone 7 is blowing people's expectations out of the water. Wasn't it just last year that Apple controlled the majority of the smartphone market and now Android has jumped leaps and bounds and is now pulling ahead?

    What is it that these companies are doing that Palm wasn't before?

    1) Making solid hardware. Not just that but continually pushing the standard. Palm was incapable of this because of limited funds in comparisons to giants like Apple and Google'
    2) Horrible marketing. The point has been beaten to death but Palm really dropped the ball here earlier on. Also, whichever advertising agency they used was a huge disappointment in producing the "creepy lady" commercials and ads. They should have been paying Palm back for that one.
    3) Lack of apps.

    One the last two points, with recent help from HP, Palm was improved so much. Their ads are clear, fun and actually show off the features the OS has to offer. While we don't have an Android or even Iphone size App Catalog, the rate at which apps have been entering the catalog is phenomenal. And not just crap apps but some quality stuff. But I digress, it's mostly novelty and games but success doesn't happen overnight.

    While rumours come and go, I find it hard to believe that all this buzz about new hardware is off the mark. Especially since it was confirmed by HP that new hardware was coming in a few months, whether Q4 2010 or Q1 2011.

    All this is pointing to bigger, better Palm than ever before. I for one, am super excited to see what they are bringing to the table.
    I am, therefore I think
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattykinsx View Post
    There are three requirements for Palm/WebOS to actually make a mark and survive

    1) Release the BEST hardware possible. No cheap crap that starts to crack from nothing more than normal use, no touch-screens that fail because its 3:07pm and nothing that can handle being overclocked more than double because it's so heavily underclocked it's not even funny.
    The next WebOS device MUST be better than the Evo/Epic. Period.

    2) Battery life is terrible for all smartphones and yet Webos's battery life is worse than the rest by far. That is a problem.

    3) Apps, Apps, Apps. I have 400 apps on my Evo. That's what, half the catalog of Webos?
    The Catalog must get big named places releasing official apps.
    Sounds silly, sounds dumb, and it is but that's what attracts people.

    "Oh I can open my Bank of America app and do all my banking here..."


    IF these three requirements are not met, WebOS will go nowhere.
    IF these three requirements are met, WebOS will still have trouble.

    WebOS is has the BEST UI. No question.

    But big business and big names win the game.
    It's sad, it's unfortunate and it's pathetic. But it's the cold hard truth.
    I have to support the "marketing is what matters" theory. It's always amazed me how well the BlackBerry has done. Back when it came out, originally, it was remarkably like the Treo. In fact lots of people saw it as a Treo clone, and a terrible one at that. "It does everything the Treo does, only less!" No audio, no video, no games, and none of the nifty commonsensical stuff (like typing first letter last name to find someone, stuff that WebOS still hasn't mastered, btw). Yet it sold, and has continued to sell like crazy, in spite of its simplicity.
    This article in this thread proves a point, and does it well. PalmOS was a 10 years or so old OS with hardware to match, that made only incremental changes over time, and was SO far ahead of anything else at the time, and in spite of marketing (Lack thereof), had tons of market share. Did they rest on their laurels? Prolly. Then after the BlackBerry, the iPhone came out, and admittedly, years later, STILL couldn't do everything the then 10 year old Treo did. But it sold, even without video or cut and paste (are you kidding me?). Why? It wasn't because it was the best or most reliable product out there. In fact, when the iphone was released, there were no less than 10 products on the market that did all the same things the iPhone did (and more). The iPhone did the same things in a different and new way, and had one thing the others didn't: Marketing. It even made a purposeful mistake (like the video thing), and got more press! Now we have millions of iPhone lemmings, and CrackBerry addicts. And lemmings and addicts they may be, they hold much better products than when they both got started. Sadly, those "newness" days are gone, and I don't see much in the world of handsets that will quite be revolutionary like the Treo was (or the iPhone), unless it was too much too soon. The world has too many smartphones out there now, so it's even harder to make a dent. Evolutionary is perhaps all that will happen now, till we have neural implants, LOL
    Then again, I read an article once about the new Mini, when BMW re-released it. Like some handsets, it was new, and filled with problems, yet people who drove them endured this, and would continually say they loved the car, because of the feeling of youth they got driving it. Huh? Were they stupid? No. They just fell prey to marketing, brilliant marketing.
    In the West, marketing's what matters. Why do infomercials sell products by the millions that don't really do anything? Marketing. Western culture is RULED by marketing, even to the point of telling us that we aren't even fully human unless we buy this, or look like that, drive this, or wear that.
    As for hardware, I've been through 5 Pre's so far, and ordered replacement #6 today. Each has had that nasty VZW keyboard issue, and always something else too. And like those Mini owners, I still like the thing. Then there's this long list of commonsensical stuff my Treo did that this STILL won't do either, LOL.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by kinster02 View Post
    While this sounds all fine and dandy I don't think the rivals are sitting around worried about a company with 2% market share. Just remember Palm, Android and Wp7 will all come out with updated OSes and new devices...
    Listing Wp7 here next to Palm and Android is quite funny.
    Wp7 has currently 0% market share and close to 0 apps.
    Granted - MS - even though it is in decline - still has more than enough power to make a decent push into the market and they can subsidize their new app store to make sure they quickly get in a few hundred apps. But beyond that their actual phones have to actually sell in sufficient numbers first. And the first step is to catch up with Webos and its app catalog before they can even start grabbing market share from Iphone and Android.

    Wp7 looks way better than its dying precursor winmo - but it's not going to get compared to winmo and I have yet to see any killer features that make it look like Wp7 is going to be a great success.

    Quote Originally Posted by kinster02 View Post
    with that said Palm needs to come out before the others are released before they loose their thunder before they even get started. Android already got tablets out already with many more to come and htc hd7 for wp7 and if thats true there will be and G1/Evo2 and lets not forget IOs5. Palm just let out some of its secrets allowing others to make adjustments to their OSes. As far as marketing goes they are up against some of the biggest names in the business.
    Which - among many other things - is a good indication that new hardware is to follow soon. My guess is a couple months.
    I believe the new HPalm phone will be released in november. Sufficient time for it to come with webos 2.0 and in time for the holiday season.
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  18. #18  
    I want palm to succeed, but if it got to the point where everybody has a webos phone I wouldnt feel special anymore.
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    I want palm to succeed, but if it got to the point where everybody has a webos phone I wouldnt feel special anymore.
    You would be one of the few that knows about homebrew apps and patches, while the clueless masses would still be running with their stock devices. Remember, being on the cutting edge may be painful at times, but if the next WebOS devices really take off, we are the ones who will be looked to for guidance on how to make their devices better.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    I want palm to succeed, but if it got to the point where everybody has a webos phone I wouldnt feel special anymore.
    We had the ability to know the better device, instead of accepting whatever Kool-aid the masses were turning out.

    I want HP/Palm to do well so that they can keep make devices that I prefer instead of devices I have to settle for. I don't need my phone to complete me and make me feel special. The fact that it does, is a plus. Other people having it, wouldn't take that away.

    Okay, I'm ready for the commercial now. Go head to head and show or name the competition: Two people using phones iPhone & Droid (at mall alcove. Third person walks up and chooses the WebOS phone. Caption: "Why settle. Choose the phone that lets you do more when you're ready to do more w/o tracking your personal life." The underlined part is a joke and can be left out.

    Bottom line, I want whatever is good enough to keep HP turning out and developing new devices and mobile phone that are based on WebOS.
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