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  1.    #1  
    Is it better to use Preware or Internalz ?
  2. #2  
    Really a user choice both do the same thing.
  3. #3  
    Depends on who you ask really, I've left mine to be Internalz.
  4. #4  
    (IMO) Both are awesome.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjeffcoat View Post
    Is it better to use Preware or Internalz ?
    I recommend Preware. For installing packages, you should select a dedicated package manager application like Preware (which has had over a year of experience in installing packages), not a file manager application like Internalz which happens to handle packages as well as a recently added feature in the last couple of weeks.

    It all comes down to whether you subscribe to the Windows mentality of putting all sorts of disparate functionality into a single application, or whether you subscribe to the Linux mentality of having a set of dedicated interoperable applications, with each one doing one thing well and not trying to do the same thing as all the others. WebOS Internals subscribes to the latter view, and it seems Palm's webOS is designed for that paradigm too (with the architecture designed to allow one application to use scenes from another application, and to have one single Photo picker which all applications use and so forth). Note that we haven't tried to put file management or file viewing or file editing capabilities into Preware, cause those things should be in a file manager app like Internalz, not in a package manager app like Preware.

    Note that selecting Preware for the default IPK handler does not affect the operation of Internalz at all - if you select an .ipk file in Internalz then Internalz will operate upon it anyway.

    So I recommend using Preware for handling IPK files outside of Internalz, and leaving Internalz to handle IPK files inside itself. Then you get to have your cake and eat it too.

    Of course Jason will respond to this message with all the reasons why he thinks you should subscribe to the Windows mentality of having a file manager do package installations too, and that's perfectly fine. Having two utilities that can install packages affords good redundancy for a robust homebrew ecosystem. In the end, it's up to the user to decide which mentality they subscribe to, and act accordingly.

    Note that the end result of using either to install a package is identical.

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 08/29/2010 at 04:00 AM.
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    ....
    Lol, "Windows mentality". Not exactly as I'd describe it, and besides, that's an awfully black and white view of the world; "either one of the other"

    I think more of Internalz like FireFox. Firefox mainly is a web browser, but it can direct-view images just fine, as can it view text files. And if you have plugins or extensions in FireFox, it handle far more; multimedia, documents, etc.. And everything that FireFox can't handle, it passes off to the user's system to handle.

    Internalz is the same way. I developed things like the text editor and image viewer in Internalz and the system couldn't handle those in a way I like. As for the Ipk Installer and Patchers, I began work on those around March/April, as some of my private beta testers can attest. At the time, Preware's stance on local ipk files was that they were a security risk and local installation wouldn't be coming. So I began work on the Internalz Ipk Installer and figured I could create a Patcher using similar code as in WOSQI. They weren't ready for release in time for my b-day (April 22nd, the release date of v1.0 of Internalz), so I held it off until v1.2, released over a month ago.

    Personally, I don't subscribe to the black and white "window or linux" philosophy WebOS-Internals follows. I believe it depends on the situations. There is no text editor, so I built one. See a public need and provide it; filling in the empty spots in the operating system. That's what homebrew (and to a larger extent, all 3rd party applications) is all about.

    And just like FireFox, Internalz is designed to operate in multiple, separate windows (in the case of webOS, cards), almost like separate sub-applications. Yes, you could think of that similar to Windows Explorer with Notepad, and Microsoft Picture Viewer, but in that similarity could be applied to Linux too, like Ubuntu as well, with Nautilus, Gedit, etc..

    Anyway, back on topic. Functionality-wise, I believe Internalz is better for off-feed ipk intalls. From day 1, Internalz's Ipk Installer was meant for off-feed ipk files; to complement Preware, not replace it. Preware is great for managing packages, but when it comes to local files and their manipulation, Internalz is better, in my opinion. Despite implications that Internalz ipk install is unreliable or unproven; it uses the same .ipk install service as preware and the SDK, and even filecoaster (though I think myself and Rod can agree fileCoaster may not be a wise choice ).

    Standards-wise, Internalz uses the same universal .ipk format as Palm and the rest of the webOS homebrew world. Ipk files installed in Internalz will be listd properly in Preware. So there really is no standards different between the two and users can feel confident with either choice.

    Lastly, I feel I should point out there are a few minor visual/feature differences in Internalz, compared to Preware. Internalz displays package information: stuff like appid, version, developer, filepath, etc.. In addition, it shows users if the ipk has a postinst or prerm script. Not necessarily useful information, but I like it. As well, Internalz supports post-install/post-removal restart flags for advanced homebrew ipk files. I hope/expect Preware will eventually implement that in the future as it can be handy for ipk files that use it. Lastly, as of v1.3, Internalz supports the Copy to User Storage option, for files like email attachments, that aren't available in the usb mode area (see the ). This can be crucial for those like myself that like to store away off-feed ipk files (for various reasons, like backup).


    Though when it come down to it, I'll always be biased to Internalz, and Rod will always be biased towards Preware. They're our creations and we want others to love and use them as much as we do.

    And all feelings/opinions aside, they each have their pros and cons and it's up to the user to decide. Can't go wrong with either, really. And I think everyone can agree that it's great to have options; especially options that are interoperable, integrated, free and easy to use for the average user. Heh, I'd like to see Apple allow that.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  7. #7  
    One other important difference is support for dependencies.

    Preware has support for handling dependencies for stand-alone ipk files planned. I doubt that Internalz will be able to support dependencies, because it simply does not have the feed information available to download and install them.

    A lack of support for dependencies would cause packages like Save/Restore to fail to install properly (we experience this problem right now when people use WOSQI to install Save/Restore, as WOSQI does not support package dependencies). This just causes extra hassle for users, and extra support load for me (which is why I continue to highlight it). I do hope that Internalz will not be a similar cause of failed installations by not supporting dependencies ...

    Minor user interface differences I think are nothing to be concerned about, but a file manager application that fails to properly install packages with dependencies is not something that I would recommend for the non-expert webOS homebrew user. If someone (such as Jason and other expert Internalz users) is knowledgeable about homebrew enough to understand and separately install the dependencies, then there is no concern for them, but I'm concerned about the confusion for the casual non-technical homebrew user ...

    -- Rod
    Last edited by rwhitby; 08/29/2010 at 06:29 AM.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    One other important difference is support for dependencies.

    Preware has support for handling dependencies for stand-alone ipk files planned. I doubt that Internalz will be able to support dependencies, because it simply does not have the feed information available to download and install them.

    A lack of support for dependencies would cause packages like Save/Restore to fail to instal properly (we experience this problem right now when people use WOSQI to instal Save/Restore, as WOSQI does not support package dependencies). This just causes extra hassle for users, and extra support load for me (which is why I continue to highlight it). I do hope that Internalz will not be a similar cause of failed installations by not supporting dependencies ...

    -- Rod
    I completely agree here. Internalz will not be supporting dependencies, at least for the near future, as that's not the main purpose of Internalz's Ipk Installer. Dependencies are on-feed, whereas Internalz is designed for off feed. I wholly agree, advanced homebrew apps with dependencies like Save/Restore should be using on-feed packages from Preware. That said, until Preware supports that, Preware's off-feed ipk install is still in the same boat. Thankfully, based on the fact palm-package doesn't support dependancies, it makes sense that the vast majority of off-feed ipk files, like developer private betas, will install just fine in current-day Internalz/Preware. Oh, and for the record, WOSQI v4.0 will support dependencies
    Last edited by Jason Robitaille; 08/29/2010 at 06:37 AM.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  9. #9  
    One option for Internalz may be to detect if a package has dependencies and then pass it over to Preware for installation if it does.

    Just like Preware would pass any image viewing or file editing needs over to a dedicated file manager application like Internalz ...

    -- Rod
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    One option for Internalz may be to detect if a package has dependencies and then pass it over to Preware for installation if it does.

    Just like Preware would pass any image viewing or file editing needs over to a dedicated file manager application like Internalz ...

    -- Rod
    As a stop-gap measure for dependency-requiring ipk files, yea, that could definitely work once Preware supports dependencies. Plus, users would have the benefit of the initial Internalz Ipk Installer interface (Copy To User Storage, and ipk package informaton). Would definitely make sense and would work

    Though I am honestly curious under what circumstances Preware would use an imageviewer/texteditor/file browser instance. Only thing that comes to mind is possibly opening a license agreement or changelog text file after an install.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    As a stop-gap measure for dependency-requiring ipk files, yea, that could definitely work once Preware supports dependencies. Plus, users would have the benefit of the initial Internalz Ipk Installer interface (Copy To User Storage, and ipk package informaton). Would definitely make sense and work work great
    See - the Linux paradigm of interoperable small applications each doing one thing best really does work

    -- Rod
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Just like Preware would pass any image viewing or file editing needs over to a dedicated file manager application like Internalz ...
    I am honestly curious under what circumstances Preware would use an imageviewer/texteditor/file browser instance. Only thing that comes to mind is possibly opening a license agreement or changelog text file after an install.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  13. #13  
    Internalz installs .patch files from the internal drive. I like this feature. Preware doesn't do this.

    Preware installs files from a URL. I like this feature. Internalz doesn't do this.

    So I use both quite often.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    I am honestly curious under what circumstances Preware would use an imageviewer/texteditor/file browser instance. Only thing that comes to mind is possibly opening a license agreement or changelog text file after an install.
    One scenario would be to allow the user to do a security review of the unpacked package contents before allowing it to be installed.

    -- Rod
  15. #15  
    If Preware could pass an .ipk to Internalz for inspection, that would be a remarkable feature.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by tobias funke View Post
    If Preware could pass an .ipk to Internalz for inspection, that would be a remarkable feature.
    Things like that are definitely possible when you create focussed interoperable applications that are able to be chained together to provide 1+1=3 results ... Just like using pipes to chain together utilities on the command line in Linux.

    -- Rod
  17. #17  
    question I set the defualt IPK when preware came up to preware, and once I did all my packages were not detected by preware anymore. Though everything is still on the phone. How do I get preware to regonize my installed packages again, and ideas?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by wellwellwell11 View Post
    question I set the defualt IPK when preware came up to preware, and once I did all my packages were not detected by preware anymore. Though everything is still on the phone. How do I get preware to regonize my installed packages again, and ideas?
    You need to run the "Emergency Reconstruction Utility" under Linux Applications.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by tobias funke View Post
    You need to run the "Emergency Reconstruction Utility" under Linux Applications.
    ok thanks ill try that
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by tobias funke View Post
    Preware installs files from a URL. I like this feature. Internalz doesn't do this
    For the record, Internalz supports external ipk urls, when set as default handler
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
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