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  1. #121  
    Soooo, does anyone else see the drawing of the lines here?

    Apple/AT&T, Android/Big Red

    Granted Sprint has Android phones as well but Verizon has the largest supply do they not? So perhaps it's just a matter of time before Sprint and T-Mobile pick a platform to back fully then the proverbial stuff will definitely hit the fan.
  2. #122  
    Im betting T-Mo goes with Big Red and Android being as they were the first to introduce it, and continue to put out more Android OS phones.
  3. #123  
    It looks like Verizon's lawyers are concerned that they are vulnerable were there to be a lawsuit re the GPS. If you read the paragraph in Verizon's response:

    A secondary issue raised by your August 25, 2010 memorandum was the disclosure regarding aGPS and GPS on the Verizon Wireless website. At the time you wrote, the disclosure read “Assisted and Standalone GPS”. It seems that you may be reading that disclosure as “Assisted and Standalone GPS in support of third party applications”, however, the underlined language is not part of the advertising. While Verizon Wireless believes this reading is a stretch, we are in the process of removing the reference to “Assisted”.

    They are removing "Assisted" at the request of their lawyers. I expect the concern is that by claiming “Assisted and Standalone GPS” the reader would naturally think that they would be available for any purpose as is standard practice with their competition in the industry. For Verizon to claim that it should be interpreted that Assisted is available only for Verizon Navigator is to quote them a "stretch"!!!!
  4. #124  
    Does anyone know why Palm/HP puts up with this?

    Verizon accepted their phone for distribution and then modified the phone in such a way as to provide an unsatisfactory user experience. This has damaged Palm/HPs reputation as a phone provider. It also results in less than planned phone sales by Palm/HP which certainly contributed to the downfall of Palm as a standalone company.

    Whether Verizon's initial actions in removing GPS functionality were intentional or the result of incompetence is in question. However, their refusal to fix the problem after 8 months is obviously deliberate.

    Yes, we the customer are wronged by the fact that we can not use some of the features of our phones. However, the damage to Palm/HP is far greater. They have one of the best phones but the largest carrier, their potential largest distributor, instead of just saying "we don't want to carry your phone". They take the phone and make it dis-functional. It's not only unethical, but should be illegal. Who knows how far the Pre could have gone at Verizon if it was not crippled.

    The only way this should be OK were if Palm was informed of and agreed to what Verizon was doing ahead of time. Is it possible that Palm/HP is OK with this?
  5. #125  
    They don't have to be OK with it. When a carrier is big enough, they get what they want.
  6. #126  
    i think its a big pile of hot road apples
  7. #127  
    Verizion may be big enough, but in my opinion, I think they do have to be OK with it. Now that Verizon has refused to fix the phone, I think HP could sue them for damages to Palm's business revenues and reputation. Verizon's actions seem to be both damaging to Palm/HP and anti-competitive. HP has the money to break the carriers backs, but I don't know if they will want to. However, if HP feels that Verizon's actions have contributed to them forever loosing the SmartPhone race and that only a level playing field could give HP a chance, they may feel they have nothing to lose.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeAFe View Post
    Verizion may be big enough, but in my opinion, I think they do have to be OK with it. Now that Verizon has refused to fix the phone, I think HP could sue them for damages to Palm's business revenues and reputation. Verizon's actions seem to be both damaging to Palm/HP and anti-competitive. HP has the money to break the carriers backs, but I don't know if they will want to. However, if HP feels that Verizon's actions have contributed to them forever loosing the SmartPhone race and that only a level playing field could give HP a chance, they may feel they have nothing to lose.
    As a developer, I feel cheated out of thousands of potential customers with a certain GPS app I am working on, and therefore HPalm is too.
  9. #129  
    This is typical Verizon. They ALWAYS hobble something, bluetooth being a frequent example. The original RAZR from Motorola is a great example. Verizon crippled the USB connection, locked out the ability to change the front to display anything other than "Verizon Wireless", and restricted bluetooth to prevent connections which could be used to transfer files among with other bluetooth limitations. The focus of most of these restrictions was to force users into using Verizon's method of transferring pictures and other content off the phone. Of course their method wasn't free, as you might guess. The bluetooth on the Palm Treo was also limited to only connecting to a few types of bluetooth devices, which didn't include bluetooth speakers if I recall correctly.

    Verizon wants to have complete control over what you can do with your device, and will ensure that if they have a service to charge customers extra for a feature (such as GPS and Verizon Navigator) that you are limited to using that service for that feature. They definitely see the GPS Fix app to be a "loophole", a way around forcing users to pay for accurate, fast location finding. To be honest I'm shocked that they even agreed to sell the WebOS phones seeing how easy it is to customize them at the OS level. I'm sure their deal with Palm allowed for them to make restrictions like this to the software. It's how they've always done it in the past. Palm would have no choice but to allow it, given that they needed Verizon more than Verizon needed them. Maybe HP will be a little more forceful in restricting what carriers can do to the software on the phones.

    As for me, I find it high handed and annoying, to say the least. But, much like Jonathan, I'm not switching carriers over it. Not yet anyway. If I can find a better discount than the one I have now with a carrier whose coverage is equal to Verizon I'd consider it though. I've been a loyal Verizon customer since my first cell phone back in the early to mid 90's. Verizon should consider that.
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    #130  
    I've contacted a lawyer regarding a Class action lawsuit against Verizon. I'm told that we should have a pretty good case.
  11. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeAFe View Post
    It looks like Verizon's lawyers are concerned that they are vulnerable were there to be a lawsuit re the GPS. If you read the paragraph in Verizon's response:

    A secondary issue raised by your August 25, 2010 memorandum was the disclosure regarding aGPS and GPS on the Verizon Wireless website. At the time you wrote, the disclosure read “Assisted and Standalone GPS”. It seems that you may be reading that disclosure as “Assisted and Standalone GPS in support of third party applications”, however, the underlined language is not part of the advertising. While Verizon Wireless believes this reading is a stretch, we are in the process of removing the reference to “Assisted”.

    They are removing "Assisted" at the request of their lawyers. I expect the concern is that by claiming “Assisted and Standalone GPS” the reader would naturally think that they would be available for any purpose as is standard practice with their competition in the industry. For Verizon to claim that it should be interpreted that Assisted is available only for Verizon Navigator is to quote them a "stretch"!!!!
    its not available for any purpose as you have to puchase an extra service and pay an extra monthly fee just to access their "assisted and Standalone GPS"
  12. #133  
    even thoug I pay for the extra service, it still doesn't work well with other LBS apps.
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