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  1. #21  
    fyi it's not just hacking! I've gone to sprint stores where they have refused to even look at my Pre because I have an after market Seidio battery installed!! Can you believe that? They're reasoning is that they only repair "standard" palm hardware even if the defect like oreo or something has nothing to do with the battery. As a result I would reccomend not only removing all patches, themes and evidence of preware on your device, but also any aftermarket accessiries like seidio extended bateries before you go to a sprint store. They basically will look for any excuse NOT to service phone if they can find one imo...
  2. Speebs's Avatar
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    #22  
    Everyone calling the OP an ***** is an *****. Is there anything written anywhere that says you can't install something on your phone that isn't from the app catalog (other than overclocking kernels)? And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a modded back on the Pre. The people at the stores are the idiots.
  3. #23  
    I've never had this kind of experience with the Sprint reps near me. They are always very helpful and polite even if they don't always know what they are talking about. Palm has stated many many times in the public that they support the homebrew that is being used on the Pre and Pixi. My local Sprint repair store has never givin me a problem and I have never removed any software before taking my phone in for service.

    I think maybe some of these sprint reps are improperly trained or they are just trying to squeeze every dime out of the customers for whatever reason. If you have issue with the store reps you should call customer care for service. The OP did nothing wrong, you are allowed to swap batteries and back covers as you wish. You are also allowed to use homebrew as you please with exception to the OC Kernels.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Everyone calling the OP an ***** is an *****. Is there anything written anywhere that says you can't install something on your phone that isn't from the app catalog (other than overclocking kernels)? And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a modded back on the Pre. The people at the stores are the idiots.
    Maybe you should read the limited warranty?
    http://www.palm.com/us/support/conta...anty_1year.pdf

    "EXCLUSIONS: This warranty does not apply (1) to damage to the
    surface of the product, including cracks or scratches on the LCD
    touchscreen or outside casing; (2) to damage caused by misuse,
    neglect, improper installation, storage or testing, unauthorized
    attempts to open, repair, or modify the product, or any other cause
    beyond the range of the intended use; (3) to damage caused by
    accident, fire, dirt, sand, moisture or liquids, power changes, other
    hazards, or acts of God; (4) to damage caused by use of the product
    with any non-Palm device or service if such device or service causes
    the problem; or (5) if any Palm serial number has been removed,
    defaced or altered."

    I'm not a lawyer or work in any type of legal area, but I'm pretty certain number 2 covers this case.
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

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  5. ToddK's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    Me, too. I had some minor complaints, and the Sprit rep who straightened them out also suggested I might want to try some of the homebrew stuff, and gave me enough info to find this site. And Palm has been quite accepting of Homebrew from the start, even encouraging it, unlike Apple.

    The Sprint Store employees didn't blink at the "skin" I'd applied to the screen, either, when I went in for a replacement phone.

    I'm not surprised that they balked at a warrantee repair on a phone that you'd soldered stuff onto, though. That's clearly beyond "normal use".
    When the staff, who were using Pre's, at my local sprint store, first saw my themed Pre (at the time - iPhone icons w/ 4x4 icons plus more...) ! ...they made me show them how to do it! We sat at a computer for the next 20 mins. as I pointed them in the direction of PreCentral...

    Ever since, I have been treated like a king. ;-) ....over-nighted refubs have been sent directly to me, and they've let me keep my old Pre for up to a couple of weeks, to give me time to get everything off of it.

    The key is be friendly, then they treat you like family. ....better sometimes! ;-)
  6. Balzak's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjeffcoat View Post
    Funny, a Sprint store was where I originally heard about Preware & PreCentral.net - and a Sprint rep who showed me all the cool patches and homebrew apps on her phone...
    Same here. He even warned me to Doctor it before bringing it in if it screwed up. This was back in November when the reps were more Pre friendly I guess.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Everyone calling the OP an ***** is an *****. Is there anything written anywhere that says you can't install something on your phone that isn't from the app catalog (other than overclocking kernels)? And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a modded back on the Pre. The people at the stores are the idiots.
    A quick search shows that the word '*****' wasn't used by anyone other than you. No one said he was an *****, or even wrong. Just careless. Sure, he can take it in that way. He can also step out in front of a car because he has the right-of-way in a cross walk. He'd be right, and he'd get run over.

    Over-react much?
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurav View Post
    fyi it's not just hacking! I've gone to sprint stores where they have refused to even look at my Pre because I have an after market Seidio battery installed!! Can you believe that? They're reasoning is that they only repair "standard" palm hardware even if the defect like oreo or something has nothing to do with the battery. As a result I would reccomend not only removing all patches, themes and evidence of preware on your device, but also any aftermarket accessiries like seidio extended bateries before you go to a sprint store. They basically will look for any excuse NOT to service phone if they can find one imo...
    !! I had neglected to swap the Palm bettery back in before bringing it in for service, and was slightly worried that they'd replace the phone and replace my Seidio battery with a Palm battery. Instead, my Sprint rep looked at my Seidio battery and said, "oh good, you found that. Yeah, you need the bigger battery". Then he took it out and put it in the new phone.

    I guess the moral is that Sprint reps vary a great deal. I'm pretty sure that the bad treatment some are reporting isn't official policy, but the result of poor training and poor support of the product. I guess I got lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    Maybe you should read the limited warranty?
    http://www.palm.com/us/support/conta...anty_1year.pdf

    "EXCLUSIONS: This warranty does not apply (1) to damage to the
    surface of the product, including cracks or scratches on the LCD
    touchscreen or outside casing; (2) to damage caused by misuse,
    neglect, improper installation, storage or testing, unauthorized
    attempts to open, repair, or modify the product, or any other cause
    beyond the range of the intended use; (3) to damage caused by
    accident, fire, dirt, sand, moisture or liquids, power changes, other
    hazards, or acts of God; (4) to damage caused by use of the product
    with any non-Palm device or service if such device or service causes
    the problem; or (5) if any Palm serial number has been removed,
    defaced or altered."

    I'm not a lawyer or work in any type of legal area, but I'm pretty certain number 2 covers this case.
    I think it covers soldering a custom charging unit onto the cover. I don't think it covers downloading patches. Palm has been pretty clear that that is authorized and within the intended use. (My Sprint rep suggested a few that he thought I'd find useful.) That's why they need item (4) in the exclusions, to protect them from liability if you damage the gadget by overclocking, or whatever.
  9. birchasr's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
    !! That's why they need item (4) in the exclusions, to protect them from liability if you damage the gadget by overclocking, or whatever.
    Dude, not trying to embarrass you but check out his signature. He works for Palm. Plus he was speaking to the hardware mod not the patches.
  10. #30  
    It wasn't clear to me that he was referring to the hardware mod. But yeah, of course the hardware mod would void the warranty.
  11. #31  
    everyone should have a second back that hasn't been modded. To work with a standard battery, and to use when walking in to a phone store. RS sells them cheap...

    and since the Sprint Pre doesn't come with a touchstone back, every sprint owner has a standard back to use for such purposes.
    Last edited by Workerb33; 07/29/2010 at 11:16 AM.
  12. #32  
    it would be better to take the phone in with no battery cover than a 3rd party cover that was chopped and glued to standard parts. That seems obvious, yes?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    fyi, there wasn't any legislation. Just a ruling from the copyright office which reviews and manages the DMCA.
    My mistake. I am aware of that and wrote that down incorrectly.
  14. #34  
    I have a few Sprint stores between my home and work. I stop by different ones from time to time and make up some random crap about my Pre to see what kind of feedback/service I will get.

    It ranges from, great, you're into the homebrew stuff... to ... we can't help you with that "jailbreak" stuff on your phone. (The jailbreak part makes me laugh!)

    Did you know that the Evo/Android was the first phone with multi-tasking.... Had one rep tell me that once.

    It really does depend on what rep you get. Some are really good and others are just mindless minions pushing the Evo.

    Once I found a store with a few good reps, I now go to them with the few issues I ever have and to share homebrew goodness.

    For more information on Sconix's (@therealsconix/@modeswitcher) webOS collective work... visit here.

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  15. #35  
    Why should the back matter? BFD, it's a TS magnet stuck on the back, it has crap to do with the phone being borked. Next time put some black tape on it and just tell those tightassed idiots the TS plastic came off, so you taped back it on, jfc.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    Why should the back matter? BFD, it's a TS magnet stuck on the back, it has crap to do with the phone being borked. Next time put some black tape on it and just tell those tightassed idiots the TS plastic came off, so you taped back it on, jfc.
    Next he should just be safe and put the original back on the Pre before going to the store so he doesn't have to deal with some of the stupid stuff you get.

    And yes, I agree with one person, it really depends on if you just get a guy (or gal) that works there because it's a job, or you are fortunate to find a geek working there.

    The geeks should be available to talk to fellow geeks rather than deal with the regular staff.

    It would be a better customer relations things to implement.

    Rob
    Robert L
    Astoria Queens, N.Y.C
    - Palm Pre (Sprint) - formally Palm Treo 650
    Version 1.4.1.1
    Sprint Configuration 2.3
    Model: P100EWW
    Hardware Version: A
    Firmware: CC1.4(510)

  17. #37  
    A quick word about Preware and warranties:

    A warranty is a guarantee of proper operation of the product the company sold you. Unlike desktop computers, cell phones have unreal tolerances. The software and hardware are tightly integrated. One cannot be easily modified without modifying the other. If you modify the phone, it is no longer the phone the company sold you; it is a different phone that has no warranty.

    It does not matter how much Palm praises Preware, and other software mods, if Preware hoses your phone, you are on the hook for it. What if your LED notification patch prematurely burns out your LED? That is not Palm's fault. They may fix it. But they don't have to. They did not sell you a phone with an LED rated for that use. It is not significantly different from an over-clocking patch. It is just a matter of degree.

    How many people complain about battery life who have patched, doctored, rooted, or jailbroken their software? Once you do that, battery life is sure to suffer. They might replace your battery anyway, but they don't have to. You are no longer using the phone they sold you, and are forcing the battery to do more than the warranty covers.

    My point is you cannot put on the big-boy pants of a modder, then complain that your expensive toy got broke. Palm may encourage you to tinker, but they are a company of tinkerers. That in no way suggests that they are going to fix your stuff when your mod goes awry. Some stores will. Some stores won't. None of them have to. It is only the entitlement mentality that makes us feel that we have a right to warranty repairs no matter what we do to modify the product.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    A quick word about Preware and warranties:

    A warranty is a guarantee of proper operation of the product the company sold you. Unlike desktop computers, cell phones have unreal tolerances. The software and hardware are tightly integrated. One cannot be easily modified without modifying the other. If you modify the phone, it is no longer the phone the company sold you; it is a different phone that has no warranty.

    It does not matter how much Palm praises Preware, and other software mods, if Preware hoses your phone, you are on the hook for it. What if your LED notification patch prematurely burns out your LED? That is not Palm's fault. They may fix it. But they don't have to. They did not sell you a phone with an LED rated for that use. It is not significantly different from an over-clocking patch. It is just a matter of degree.

    How many people complain about battery life who have patched, doctored, rooted, or jailbroken their software? Once you do that, battery life is sure to suffer. They might replace your battery anyway, but they don't have to. You are no longer using the phone they sold you, and are forcing the battery to do more than the warranty covers.

    My point is you cannot put on the big-boy pants of a modder, then complain that your expensive toy got broke. Palm may encourage you to tinker, but they are a company of tinkerers. That in no way suggests that they are going to fix your stuff when your mod goes awry. Some stores will. Some stores won't. None of them have to. It is only the entitlement mentality that makes us feel that we have a right to warranty repairs no matter what we do to modify the product.
    Well first off his problem had nothing to do with Preware and nowhere has palm ever stated that the use of Preware will void your warranty. He went in the store with a legitimate hardware issue and was givin a hard time because of his aftermarket battery and modded cover which as far as I know also does not void the warranty. None of the original parts of the phone had been modded according to his post.

    It just seems that some Sprint reps don't have any clue about what is considered acceptable usage when it comes to the Pre and Pixi. Obviously the manager had no problem with the condition of the phone since it was his decision to honor the warranty.

    Also I don't know if you realize it but by Palm supporting Preware publicly they have opened the door for warranty support even if there warranty policy states otherwise. If they had to go to court they would loose because they have already admitted publicly that they are in favor of it's use on there devices.
  19. ericUT's Avatar
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    #39  
    That's hilarious. We never do that at our store. We usually ignore Preware when doing service. In fact, didn't Palm say they didn't have a problem with Preware? If you come in with some kind of software modification we will still service it. Of course if you come in with a software/battery life problem, we're gonna undo any mods you have and hard reset it. Hell, I even do warranty work on Android and WinMo phones with custom ROMs and BB's with leaked OS'es. Doesn't matter to me at all. But again if I determine the problem is due to your mods, I'm gonna wipe your phone back to stock. If I can't determine whether it's due to modifications I'll flash it back to stock and then tell you to come back if it still happens.

    That store is BS. Go to another one.
    Sprint Technical Consultant
    BSE Electrical Engineering
    --
    Palm Pre - WebOS 1.4.5 - UberKernal 500/1000 Screenstate
    RIM Blackberry Bold 9650 - OS 5.0.0.975/6.0.0.280
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterfix View Post
    Also I don't know if you realize it but by Palm supporting Preware publicly they have opened the door for warranty support even if there warranty policy states otherwise. If they had to go to court they would loose because they have already admitted publicly that they are in favor of it's use on there devices.
    You see, that is exactly the mentality I was talking about. Palm has never said they were liable for damage you do to your phone when using Preware. They are a company of tinkerers. I'm sure they would approve of any company willing to brand and sell Preware soldering irons and blow torches, but that doesn't mean they will cover the damage you do to your product.

    They support the idea of Preware insofar as they don't care what you do to your property once you have it. They encourage tinkering and patching and anything you can do to fill in the gaps that they left behind. They just don't have to fix it once you mod your phone. You clearly do not understand the nature of a warranty. They guarantee the product they made, not the product that you made. Change the firmware, you change the phone.

    This is precisely why Apple does not make any public statement in support of mods, hardware or software. They would not lose a case in court, but they would have to fight those cases because people like you believe that they are entitled to unlimited repair for damage not caused by the manufacturer.

    As for this current discussion not applying to the OP, you're wrong. From a warranty perspective, any mod, regardless of the cause of your complaint, is still enough to void the entire warranty. It does not just void the modded part of the warranty; it voids the whole thing. The logic is that even if you only replaced you LED for a heavier duty model, you still may have inadvertently damaged a display connector. You may have removed some of the thermal paste while doing something minor which caused your phone to overheat.

    All firmware mods are fundamentally the same as the over-clocking mod. It is just a matter of degree. They may want to make their mod centric customer base happy by turning a blind eye to certain things. But you are fooling yourself if you believe they have any legal obligation to fix your modded device.
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