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  1. #21  
    Some clarification of rod's clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby
    You do realise that all the patches [..] are actually written by a whole heap of different developers, and only a few of them are actually written by Jason?
    More than a few. At last count, I'm over at 50 patches releases. Which is 15-20% of all patches out for webOS. I never claimed more, but I'd certainly not refer to it as "only a few"

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby
    You also may not realise that the decision to use the open standard patch format for these tweaks and patches was made by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason), and the wiki in which these tweaks and patches were originally contributed is maintained by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason) and assistance to the authors of all these patches was done primarily by members of the WebOS Internals team in the #webos-internals IRC channel (not by Jason).
    Mostly true. WebOS-Internals did decide to use the unified diff format for the old PreDevWiki. And while most of the early patches were authored by homebrew members on the wiki and forums, from both members and non-members of WebOS-Internals. The earliest average-user-friendly incarnation of patches came from WebOS Quick Install in the form of the Tweak section, combining patches found on the wiki, forums, as well as some original ones done by myself. Infact, for a while, WOSQI had many tweaks not on the PreDevWiki and Rod asked me to help import them; which I did. Since then, both of us have continued to foster and grow unified diff format widespread adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby
    You also may not realise that the AutoPatch technology which allows these patches to be turned into installable packages was created by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason).
    Very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby
    You also may not realise that the negotiations that allowed an open standard homebrew package format that supports themes and patches were led by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason, who was actually arguing against such a format at the start).
    The only time, and I stress "only", I argued against ipk standard was for themes in the early days, when ipk limits necessitated a different format (so I chose an open format, using well-known xml and zip). I have always been in favour of the other open formats: unified diff, ipk, etc. In fact, I've aided developers with opensource tools for the open formats. Unified Diff Creator, Ipk Packager, and WebOS Theme Builder. All opensource tools for open formats which I've supported.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby
    You also may not realise that the conception, design, implementation and maintenance of the Preware application is done by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason).
    Yes, this hopefully is obvious. I am completely separate from Preware and had no part of its creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby
    And we do know that Jason has not tried to take credit for anything that he has not done. He's a good guy and he and the WebOS Internals team collaborate well together.
    Well said.


    I'd also like to quickly mention there's also a reverse effect that frequently occurs. Frequently, people associate me as a member of WebOS-Internals. I love those guys, but simply put: I'm not part of their group. I can't tell you how often people have attributed my patches and applications as work done by WebOS-Internals. For example, many people simply attribute my patches as a part of Preware, and done by them, when in reality, that not the case. As well, when I released Internalz, many websites and people incorrectly attributed it to WebOS-Internals.

    Simply put, me and WebOS-Internals are 2 separate entities that occasionally work together. We each have our own work that deserves proper credit; despite the fact neither of us have claimed anything different. I love the folks at WebOS-Internals and look forward to our continued cooperation together.
    Last edited by Jason Robitaille; 07/08/2010 at 09:22 PM.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  2. #22  
    All this is why they should contract WebOS-Internals to do skunkworks stuff, and hire Jason to put his patches into the core operating system...
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  3. #23  
    The FB group to draft Jason to work directly for Palm is now at 60 members. Keep recruiting!
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  4. #24  
    Fully agree with Jason's clarifications.

    -- Rod
  5. #25  
    I am actually amazed that neither Jason nor Rod and the webOS Internals folks have already been offered jobs with Palm or HP. I find it hard to believe that neither Palm nor HP are unaware of their contribution to what is undeniably the best phone and Phone OS to-date. Go Jason, go Rod, go webOS Internals.
  6. #26  
    I would love to see Jason working at Palm. We all have to step back for a moment and remember a few things:
    We're in a bubble here. The fact is that the majority of people who own webOS devices don't visit PreCentral or read the forums- odds are the don't know about it. The vast majority of webOS users don't use webOS QuickInstall or Preware, much install patches or homebrew apps or replacement kernels. There's so much great work in this community that people just don't get to use. Maybe they don't want to risk patching or homebrew installation. Maybe they don't understand how it works. Maybe they just have no idea about it. Why should the awesome contributions Jason has made to webOS with his patches and homebrew apps be only available to geeks like us? I think that Palm hiring him would be great for everyone. For the average user, who will get lots of new awesome features he/she never would've even thought about. For the geeks, we'll get new webOS features too, but also we'll get the bonus of deep integration of patches we love-who knows, maybe internalz and it's service could become part of the official webOS SDK? For Palm, it's pretty simple- they get more innovative features in webOS! They'll make existing users happy with this, and webOS will grow stronger and possibly gain press and add market share. Palm, please hire Jason Robitaille. Why wouldn't you want him working at Palm?

    WebOS-internals, however, I think should stay independent. Some of the things they do would never, ever be released if they worked for Palm. Can you image Palm helping to write Preware? How about Govnah, AUPT or UberKernel? These project would never see the light of day. We need people like the awesome folks at webOS-internals for homebrew to function (literally- they host the servers for all the feeds in Preware!) Palm hiring WebOS-Internals would make sense if your goal is to add more tallent to Palm, but they wouldn't be doing the kind of work they do now. Palm doesn't try to shut the community down or even discourage the homebrew or patching community. Hell, the Pre they showed in one of their developer day videos clearly had been patched (it had the AM/PM top bar patch from Jason Robitaille) and they've mentioned the homebrew community in positive light many times. But if they were insidof Palm, do you think there would even be Preware? Much less overclocking kernels. No extra services. No AUPT. I love webOS-internals and everything they do for the community, and I don't want to see anything or anyone mess with them. Jason Robitaille has done wonders for us as well- he's one of the most important developers we have. But what Jason does is a lot more "compatible" with Palm and what they do. The work he does is a lot more "useful" to Palm. Not that webOS-internals doesn't do useful work (in fact they do some of the most useful and important work there is and everyone here benefits from it) it's just that Palm couldn't incorporate most of what webOS-internals works on into Palm's software. Jason's patches and services, however, are things that they work on Palm, and having Jason on their team would be huge.
    Well, that's all I can write for now. My eyes are having lots of trouble staying open now and I'm not exactly fond of waking up with my head on macbook's keyboard- time to get some sleep. I'll catch up on this some more tomorrow. Go Palm! Go Jason Robitaille! Go webOS Internals! You guys make webOS even more awesome. Keep up the awesome work.

    Peace out and stay awesome,
    Seb_or_Sam
  7. #27  
    Finally, someone who gets it!

    WebOS-Internals is able to do what they do precisely because they operate outside Palm's corporate structure. There is this attitude that Palm's developers are morons and Jason and the WebOS-Internals guys are infinitely more talented. They will be the first ones to tell you how ridiculous that is. They are able to do the things they do because it is all unsupported "try at your own risk" stuff. The minute they went to work for Palm and they had to fit the existing development roadmap and refine it to a level that would allow it to become officially supported, the vast majority of it would disappear into a black hole, never to see the light of day.

    The current arrangement is the best of both worlds for the community.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by SFHandyman View Post
    Just to reiterate: I know webOS Internals is many people and that there are many more who have contributed to Homebrew. I want to thank ALL of you. You are simply amazing to me.
    +1 Thanks Sooooo Much
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    Honestly, I absolutely love Palm and would jump at the chance if they offered.
    obly if your still on here constantly
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    obly if your still on here constantly
    EDIT: keyboards been messing up alot lately sorry I meant "only"
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    Hey, then you could work on integrating Preware into the OS for us

    Cheers mate.

    -- Rod
    in a perfect os I invision an underground market "preware like" would be a simple option people could turn on on their phones and simply be warned that everything in that market is not official and the company is not responsible) it gives the open feel. Man that would be awesome. I wish I was a coding genius like you guys I'd create my own os
  12.    #32  
    Lots of good points. It seems the majority of people are agreeing that if Palm started snatching up home brew developers it would be a mixed blessing. Sure some of their cool projects might get streamlined into Web OS but they would lose there ability to push the boundaries the way the do with projects like Uberkernel, Govnah, and AUPT.

    Jason, have you applied for a job at Palm?

    Rod, what are you feelings of working directly for Palm?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by grandebob View Post
    Jason, have you applied for a job at Palm?
    They have my resume. Whether or not anything happens is a whole other matter. In the meantime, back to coding apps like Internalz 1.2 and my upcoming Dropbox app
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

    Developer of many apps such as: WebOS Quick Install, WebOS Theme Builder, Ipk Packager, Unified Diff Creator, Internalz Pro, ComicShelf HD, LED Torch, over 70 patches and more.

    @JayCanuck @CanuckCoding Facebook
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    They have my resume. Whether or not anything happens is a whole other matter. In the meantime, back to coding apps like Internalz 1.2 and my upcoming Dropbox app
    I hope they take a good look at that resume and recognise the talent that you can bring to them
    But I'm definitely excited for future Internalz updates
  15.    #35  
    Does Palm have an office in Canada any where? The entire visa/moving thing may be a barrier to them hiring you on.
  16. #36  
    I just noticed that the Facebook group for hiring jason is over 70 members now. I love viral marketing!
    Last edited by Workerb33; 07/10/2010 at 02:19 AM.
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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    Some clarification of rod's clarification

    ...

    Simply put, me and WebOS-Internals are 2 separate entities that occasionally work together. We each have our own work that deserves proper credit; despite the fact neither of us have claimed anything different. I love the folks at WebOS-Internals and look forward to our continued cooperation together.
    Well said, Jason!!

    More diplomatic than I would have put it. What, are you Canadian or something?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    obly if your still on here constantly
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    EDIT: keyboards been messing up alot lately sorry I meant "only"
    Did you also mean "you're" instead of "your?"

    "Keyboard's" instead of "keyboards?"

    "A lot" instead of "alot?"

    LOL



    (Sorry, I know I should have tried harder, but I just couldn't help myself!! )
  19. #39  
    jason needs to be hired, webos internals needs more support but to be independent, and the people who made the tweeme app need to be hired as well so they can incorperate their design into webos (design is basically webos style, but upgraded if that makes sense. so it's not an entirely different look, but rather windows vista versus windows 7 some bigger design differences, colors ect, but a bunch of smaller ones. someday ill do a comparison.
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  20. AMR-1's Avatar
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    #40  
    I just love that this conversation is even happening...WebOS has to make it! - iOS sucks for being to controlled, Windoze is just a joke and doesn't scale down enough and RIM is too narrowly focused. HP please don't screw this up!!

    The fact that stuff in this thread is even a possibility is why I will wait for a while for a Pre2 and will buy sight unseen a WebOS tablet.
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