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  1.    #1  
    After reading several threads that ask about our favorite patches we would like to see included in future WebOS updates, I have come up with an idea on how, maybe, to see this happen.

    I understand that to take all of the currently available patches and hard code them into WebOS would be a very time consuming process and on top of that the only way to implement new ones would be to include them each time there is a WebOS update and that would mean having to wait for these updates before new patches became a regular part of WebOS.

    My idea goes about it like this. What if Palm were to create a configuration app that could be included either in a future WebOS update or through the app catalog as a free download which would be updated perodically?

    At first, the app would include all currently available patches, then after that, it would be updated perodically to include new patches created since the last release. Since this would be an app, the updates could be made as frequently as needed, but I would say here that this would occur each time after a reasonable number of new patches have been created. In between updates, the user would be able to install individual patches not included in the current release until an update would come out that included the new patches.

    The idea here is that it would not require a WebOS update to get new patches implemented, and the app would allow the user to decide which options would be enabled and which ones would be disabled thus making WebOS fully customizable. Also it would eliminate the need to update patches after a WebOS update to get them working again as they would already be part of the app that lets the user select which options they want.

    For example, a user might decide to select certain launcher options such as an icon display of 5X5, 4X4, etc, all while selecting whether or not page names are displayed and being able to modify the order the pages appear at any time, and even after all that, maybe going ahead and selecting what the top bar will look like such as selecting what icons will be displayed (mute, gps, etc.), what to display for the battery (icon, percent, or both), and even to select the date and time format to be shown and whether or not to show wifi ssid as the carrier string or any other data that current patches allow. And to take this example one step further, the user might even go ahead and choose which options they want to appear in the device menu.

    This configuration app would be like having a control panel of sorts for WebOS where the user can make WebOS and their phone work exactly like they want it to, and it would still keep the homebrew community needed because the homebrew community is where all of the great ideas come from that produce such patches making WebOS do things it wasn't originally programmed to do, so we can have greater convenience and usability of our devices.

    Taking all of this into consideration, I present to all of you three questions I believe are the main focus for such an idea like this:

    1. What do you all think about something like this?

    2. Do you see this as something doable or is it maybe too complicated?

    3. What do you feel are the chances of Palm considering such an idea?

    I would also be interested in hearing from any of you out there any input you may have on any other factors that might play into whether this kind of idea would be workable or not.
  2. #2  
    I think this is Palm's chance to innovate - Apple began the "App Store" craze - perhaps Palm can create a "Patch Store" - where users can go to change the way their device looks, feels and works.

    As long as the patches are thoroughly reviewed and filtered by Palm (remember a badly coded patch, whether intentional or unintentional can be very dangerous) then I think it could spark a similar move in other operating systems.

    So in answer to your questions:

    1) I love the idea, as long as it is strictly and appropriately policed by Palm
    2) It's absolutely do-able and not complicated at all
    3) Very unlikely - remember they design their user interface meticulously so it is accessible, recognizable and professional-looking. To allow themes and/or patches as an official feature of the phone could undermine that.

    On the flip side you might say that Android allows almost exactly that with its variable and customizable widgets and scenes - and yes, it allows for a non-uniform, user-generated (to a degree) theming aspect. But patches have the ability to change the way the interface functions as well as looks. It would be a brave manufacturer that lets the user have that much control over their product.

    However, in essence, I love the idea - and if we consider that Palm would have full control over which patches are accepted and which are filtered, then it's certainly not an impossibility.

    Palm, if you're reading this - how about that Patch Store?
    Last edited by errade; 07/04/2010 at 03:23 AM.
  3. #3  
    +1: I, too, have thought about a Patch Store (or section of the regular app store devoted to patches). Like apps, just anybody can code and submit a patch; Palm looks at it, checks that it isn't malware or a battery or memory leak, and adds it to the feed. Within no time, there would really be a patch for EVERYTHING.

    What I don't like about people saying this or that patch should be included in the master build is the freedom that it takes from the user - ideally, if you WANT some functionality (people push for 4x4 launchers a lot) you can just install that patch; people who don't like it, don't install it.

    A well-marketed Patch store could bring webOS far, I think. Right now people want to download apps because Apple says it's cool, but they say "I shouldn't have to install Patch X to have this functionality, it should ship out the box" -- without realizing the same is true for apps and what Palm did was to give them the same functional customization for actual OS functions! People see as a chore what's actually a huge, never-before-seen opportunity, and the only thing that'll change that is marketing to open their eyes. Customize THE OS ITSELF, the way it looks, feels and interacts with.
  4. #4  
    But we already have a configuration app like this - it's called Preware and it can do much more than implement patches.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp View Post
    But we already have a configuration app like this - it's called Preware and it can do much more than implement patches.
    That is true, but for the average Joe on the street that doesn't know about Preware they are missing out on a whole lot

    Also remember there are people who are worried or concerned about 'hacking' or rooting their devices.

    Thirdly, we need to consider the possibility that HP might shut the homebrew community down - we don't know enough about their business model or moral structure yet. This would be one way to preserve the culture of patches in webOS.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp View Post
    But we already have a configuration app like this - it's called Preware and it can do much more than implement patches.
    My thoughts exactly. I don't see Palm devoting resources to this. I would rather that they simply reviewed the patches and include some into webOS because the feature should have been there all along, and others for which there is likely to be a high demand can be enabled as preferences. That would require minimal effort as the code is already written and they are entitled to use it.
  7. #7  
    as an average Joe on the street, it only took me a few days from buying my first Palm device(Verizon Pre Plus) to stumble across Preware. I sure hope HP don3 shut it down. An easier alternative to making a whole new patch store app, would be a Palm approved section in Preware patches. I seriously doubt Palm will do that though. Preware will remain only for those in the know...:-(
  8. #8  
    I don't think this would happen. Right now, when Palm releases an update, they don't care if it breaks patches. But if they had an official app store, they would have to be concerned about it. That's a testing nightmare for them, one they probably can't handle in the forseeable future.

    I could actually see them formalizing theme support a little bit--at least they could standardize themes and enforce some more control. But patches by their nature are free wheeling, so Palm couldn't limit them.
  9. #9  
    Preware basically covers this...more or less. Palm will never write an app to manage homebrew software/patches.

    <<Thread Moved>>
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 07/04/2010 at 04:58 PM.
  10. #10  
    I think it'd be great if there were a way for Preware to incorporate a paid system for patches and themes, to be like the App Catalog. Themes are the bigger issue since it takes a lot of time to create them. It would be nice if people could sell them without having to rely on donations. I love the homebrew, free, open source community, but I also believe people should be paid for their work. I've created 3 very simple patches, and would never charge anyone for them, but I would not want the Pre without patches...therefore, I would be willing to pay for some of the more complex, Pre-altering patches.
    My Patches
    -Change Number of Bookmarks.patch
    -Change Carrier String and Color of Carrier String and Date/Time.patch
    -Increase Top Bar Font Size.patch

    If you appreciate the work or comments somebody has done, then use the thanks button to let them know!

    "Freedom isn't free"
  11. #11  
    I would love to see it but let's face it the chace of it happening are VERY low.
  12. #12  
    The biggest problem with something like this is that patches, by their very nature, modify the source code of the OS. Therefore they cannot be separated from the OS release. Also, many patches conflict with others, so this would have to be managed difficultly.
  13. #13  
    Let's not forget that a lot of patches only enable (uncomment) features already implemented in the System (but for some reason not yet enabled).

    I think it would be a great thing if Preware offered an open list that allowed Palm to see what people want most (=install most).

    That way Palms devs would know what features are obviously needed the most and can include them (or their own versions of them) in future updates.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzannesstud View Post
    1. What do you all think about something like this?

    2. Do you see this as something doable or is it maybe too complicated?

    3. What do you feel are the chances of Palm considering such an idea?
    1. I think Preware already addresses about 99% of this, and does it very well. I'm not sure what's gained by involving Palm in the process?

    2. & 3. I think it's would be much easier and more efficient for Palm to just incorporate the more popular patches as options in webOS. I'm not sure where you got the idea that would be hard ... most of the code I've looked at would be quite easy ... I'm a little surprised they haven't done a little more of this already.
  15. #15  
    I agree with the OP, something like webOSQI's tweaks page but modified for mobile use would be great.
  16. #16  
    I have no desire to see a majority of patches included in webOS stock because I don't want a never ending overly complicated user experience. I like the idea of a Official Palm Configuration App or App store support.

    I also like the idea of a Preware Lite App available in the App Catalog that limits Preware's access to the device and private personal information but still allows for patching & themes! (Not sure if this is feasible but it's a great idea!)

    Either way Patching & Themeing need to be brought to the masses even if it's only a shadow of it's Homebrew glory!

    I've owned my Pre since November and since then nearly every major enhancement has come via Homebrew(Uberkernel, Compache, Save & Restore, Internalz, 4X4, FB Chat, CPU Scaling, etc.) only 3 that I can think of came from Palm(Video, 3D Gaming, FB app). Granted Preware Lite would allow for the installation of almost none of these extra features...but it would be a great gateway to lead average Joe's to the Homebrew Promise Land!
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    I agree with the OP, something like webOSQI's tweaks page but modified for mobile use would be great.
    You mean, like Preware?

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    I agree with the OP, something like webOSQI's tweaks page but modified for mobile use would be great.
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    You mean, like Preware?

    -- Rod
    It certainly sounds like a description of Preware.
  19.    #19  
    Excellent comments and feedback. What I mean in my idea by a configuration app would be a way to set all the options in one place without having install and remove patches to make the changes. Maybe by simply checking and unchecking which things to use or not use.

    Thank you Mikey47 and Pulp on your comments, because I forgot about the fact that patches modify the actual OS code to make the changes and also the fact that some of these things are already there but just have to be uncommented to be enabled.

    Sounds like installing and removing patches would be the only way to do this on the fly and to provide for new options unless the OS itself was updated to allow for selecting these options which would require much more code. This also sounds like that any kind of configuration app would still have modify OS code every time a change is made which would still require an update operation followed by a Luna Restart just like the current Preware process everytime something needs to be changed.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzannesstud View Post
    Excellent comments and feedback. What I mean in my idea by a configuration app would be a way to set all the options in one place without having install and remove patches to make the changes. Maybe by simply checking and unchecking which things to use or not use.

    Thank you Mikey47 and Pulp on your comments, because I forgot about the fact that patches modify the actual OS code to make the changes and also the fact that some of these things are already there but just have to be uncommented to be enabled.

    Sounds like installing and removing patches would be the only way to do this on the fly and to provide for new options unless the OS itself was updated to allow for selecting these options which would require much more code. This also sounds like that any kind of configuration app would still have modify OS code every time a change is made which would still require an update operation followed by a Luna Restart just like the current Preware process everytime something needs to be changed.
    It is true that some of the existing patches could be extended to provide preference items to enable the functionality to be controlled at run-time. The current architecture does not preclude that, and I encourage patch authors to think about that when creating patches.

    Note that having a single configuration app which knows about all 300 existing patches in a centralised way is probably never going to happen - no-one has the spare time to manage such a centralised system.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals

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