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  1. #241  
    Everyone read the latest article on the homepage it clears everything up. HP just thinks about smartphones as another "connected device" and it just shows they are going to make them but they aren't high up on their list of thing to do.
  2. #242  
    All I have to say is that if they don't plan on keeping palm and stay in the smartphone game then this is going to be one expensive mistake for them. They will have no 3rd party support if they don't have webos in the smartphone arena. Despite the ipads success tablets are a niche market, and a huge part of why the ipad is selling so well is because of the iPhone. Who in their right mind would buy a webos tablet with 12 apps when they can get an ipad with 200000?
  3. #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by iTz Nicholas72 View Post
    Everyone read the latest article on the homepage it clears everything up. HP just thinks about smartphones as another "connected device" and it just shows they are going to make them but they aren't high up on their list of thing to do.
    The operative term being "to do" because they have already are being made by HP and Palm. It will continue to be the priority for Palm's division, just like cameras will still be the priority of the camera division.

    Did anyone head over to a digital camera forum to see if they are all freaking out because he didn't specify that they will continue to innovate and advance their digital camera business? He also didn't mention the part of HP that sells printer paper. Staples must be looking frantically for a new vendor after he failed to mention paper... And computer displays. I'm using an HP display right now... I've got to "jump ship" to an Acer display later today because he didn't mention their LCD display business!
  4. #244  
    "but they aren't high up on their list of thing to do."

    Exactly.
  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber View Post
    Clearly this type of statement may really explain why Mattias Duarte left for Google and Android....hope this is wrong.

    And hope this is not the future (because it looks like what was offered a decade ago):

    Handheld Computers and Smartphones | HP Handheld Computer
    Long before there was Palm, HP was innovating in the PDA space. I carried one of these before I got my first Palm Pilot:

    HP 200LX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Instant on, ran forever on regular batteries, ran a full version of Lotus 1-2-3 from ROM. I wish I hadn't sold it.
  6. ltlruss's Avatar
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    #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by luau joe View Post
    Here is my read. HP wants to build a system of interconnected devices, linking printers, slates, TV's, smart phones, and perhaps even home appliances, and HP envisions webOS to be the operating system driving it all.

    No, HP is not going to focus 100% of its attention in competing in the smart phone market. Rather, HP envisions smartphones being an integral component of the interconnected devices. Mark Hurd mentioned "ecosystem" more than once, and I think that is what he means. So, in my estimation, HP's vision is that the future webOS phone will not be just like other smartphones, but it will be different. WebOS phones will be able to seamlessly interface other HP webOS devices like home thermostats, printers, televisions, etc. So I might, in the future, buy a Palm phone so that I can print out files to my home printer, adjust my home thermostat programming, change channels on my tv, backup and load my files to and from my home computer, and maybe even butter my toast in the morning.

    I mean.. why would a sane company like HP want to jump into head-to-head competition with established giants like Google and Apple? Certainly not by buying a moribund, has been, outfit like Palm. Palm has the OS and the patents that permits the interlinking "ecosystem", and Palm also has one hardware component for this ecosystem, and that is the most portable of all the hardware - the handheld, pocketable smartphone.

    That is a really exciting thought... I would love to see this
  7. #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    The operative term being "to do" because they have already are being made by HP and Palm. It will continue to be the priority for Palm's division, just like cameras will still be the priority of the camera division.

    Did anyone head over to a digital camera forum to see if they are all freaking out because he didn't specify that they will continue to innovate and advance their digital camera business? He also didn't mention the part of HP that sells printer paper. Staples must be looking frantically for a new vendor after he failed to mention paper... And computer displays. I'm using an HP display right now... I've got to "jump ship" to an Acer display later today because he didn't mention their LCD display business!
    And then, why they don't tell this? They're talking about smartphones as "another type of device". I read this as "secondary".

    If they plan let Palm follow it's path, is as easy as making an statement about this. But they took the path of being abstract with their statements, with one exception: we want to use webOS on other devices different than smartphones.
  8. #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    The operative term being "to do" because they have already are being made by HP and Palm. It will continue to be the priority for Palm's division, just like cameras will still be the priority of the camera division.
    Except that there won't be a Palm Division, unless you meant that as the Division Palm ends up in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Did anyone head over to a digital camera forum to see if they are all freaking out because he didn't specify that they will continue to innovate and advance their digital camera business? He also didn't mention the part of HP that sells printer paper. Staples must be looking frantically for a new vendor after he failed to mention paper... And computer displays. I'm using an HP display right now... I've got to "jump ship" to an Acer display later today because he didn't mention their LCD display business!
    Kind of a specious argument. HP purchased Palm, which for the last 5 years has been a smartphone company (except for a momentary abortion known as the Foleo). Having the CEO purchase Palm then say we didn't buy them for the smartphone business could be disconcerting. It would be more like HP buying Olympus and then announcing they didn't purchase Olympus for the camera business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    HP 200LX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Instant on, ran forever on regular batteries, ran a full version of Lotus 1-2-3 from ROM. I wish I hadn't sold it.
    A truly wondrous device. I still own a functioning one (actually a 100LX)
  9. #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    Except that there won't be a Palm Division, unless you meant that as the Division Palm ends up in.

    Kind of a specious argument. HP purchased Palm, which for the last 5 years has been a smartphone company (except for a momentary abortion known as the Foleo). Having the CEO purchase Palm then say we didn't buy them for the smartphone business could be disconcerting. It would be more like HP buying Olympus and then announcing they didn't purchase Olympus for the camera business.

    A truly wondrous device. I still own a functioning one (actually a 100LX)


    a more apt comparison might be between pentax and hoya.

    hoya bought floundering pentax for it's optics not cameras. However they still have allowed pentax to continue producing cameras under that same name.
  10. #250  
    You are correct. If they bought Olympus, they would say they didn't buy them to get in to the camera business because both companies already are. And yes, Palm will become a division, or part of a division, once HP is done with the current "de-Carly-fying" they are undergoing. Basically they are undoing the organizations and business units that Carly put in place and re-integrating many businesses that she broke out into separate division. They are doing it for exactly the reason that webOS is so strategic to them. They need connected devices and applications that leverage everything HP does, from the end user all the way to the data center apps the need access to.

    As poorly worded as Hurd's statements are, he is actually painting the same vision that Apple has, which is not looking at a particular device or market in a stand-alone way. Their is tremendous overlap and synergy amongst them all. Think about PCs, Printers, and LCD displays. They like to sell them as a package, and they like to leverage features that make them easier to use together.

    Microsoft is stuck in the opposite paradigm. The spent all their effort figuring out how to create a decent mp3 player and music store as if it has nothing to do with any other aspect of the technology spend of their customers. While they were trying to figure out how to get a piece of the iPhone/iTunes market, they totally missed the smartphone thing. Now they are trying to react with Phone7 and/or KIN (neither of which is running Windows BTW)... meanwhile the iPad is now outselling the Macbook, which is creating huge success in the market that MS stumbled and abandoned a few years ago. Remember "Pen computing"? and "the Tablet PC"? While MS has been chasing Apple's tail, Apple circled around behind them and is ripping their tail off, and MS doesn't even realize they are back there because they are still following the vapor trail Apple left behind.

    HP is smart enough to be taking an integrated approach much closer to what Apple is doing. Google is also trying to do this, but I think they sort of stumbled into it more than doing it on purpose. And because they give Android away at no cost... they have some interesting leverage.

    Ya know whut I mean?
  11. #251  
    HP is already in the smartphone market. They just didn't have a world class product because they run WinMo...

    HP iPAQ handhelds | HP® Official Store
  12. DHart's Avatar
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    #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    What he was trying to say is this:

    We didn't spend 1.2 billion dollars with the hope of recouping that cost through phone sales. We spend 1.2 billion dollars to get webos, a platform build on the web. Allowing to work on multiple devices, and over time removing the learning curve required when buying a new hp product. Consumers will enjoying using one os on multiple devices. What makes this deal worth it for hp, is that we will ship this os on multiple devices, from phones, and tablets, to printers...
    Nimer, I think you are right on the money. I sent the text below in an email to my son yesterday - before I saw Mark Hurd's comments:

    "There are interesting developments happening in technology. One is that we are moving from static to mobile. The percentage of computing and communicating being done in a static setting like an office is declining in relation to mobile computing. Number two is that the internet is becoming the center of all technology - communications, applications, and data storage. Number three is that the major players are developing families of mobile products to address these developments.

    Apple has the iPod, iPhone, iPad, and now Apple TV. The thread running through all of them is a common root operating system and iTunes - Apple's gateway and control over all applications and content.

    Google has licensed it's Android OS to many manufacturers of smartphones. Google also is releasing Chrome OS for PC's this fall. It says it will merge Chrome and Android at some point. Manufacturers are in the process of creating Android based tablets. Google TV, a direct competitor for Apple TV, will run Android.

    Palm is the most interesting. It really is now a pure operating system company. The man who developed Web OS was the developer of the iPhone at Apple. Many pundits say it is the best operating system of the three, but that doesn't mean it will win in the market place. HP is the largest manufacturer of computing hardware in the world now. But it doesn't have a mobile OS. The marriage of HP and Palm Web OS could be perfect. Look for HP to develop a lot of different devices using Web OS. But it could take time.

    Microsoft is in never never land, but never count them out. They are releasing Win7 for smartphones very soon. It will have to be radically different from their previous mobile OS's to be successful.

    What is interesting is that history is repeating itself. Many years ago, Apple made the decision to become a "closed" environment. All hardware and software must be approved by Apple. Microsoft took a different approach. It licensed its operating system to multiple manufacturers and threw the doors open to software developers. And what do we see now? Apple once again has declared they are closed to unrestricted outside development. Google, on the other hand, is following Microsoft's path. Google already has more marketshare in smartphones than Apple. I think that will continue and Apple will once again sell to the same people who always buy Apple products - previous customers. Open always wins, closed always loses."

    Mark Hurd is saying (as has been pointed out by others here) - "We didn't buy Palm to get into the smartphone business. We bought Palm to stay competitive and relevant in a marketplace where our competitors are offering a full suite of products/services that covers a very wide spectrum of users - not just smartphone users."

    HP has the deep pockets to pull this off. If you want to worry about a smartphone company being at risk, I would be looking at RIM. They are currently a one trick pony.

    If you are business owner that is looking for an integrated solution with one operating system across smartphones, tablets with customized applications, printers, etc., that all talk to each other in real time because they have a multitasking OS...OR...you have a smartphone that can do rock solid email, but that's all. Who are you going to choose?

    If you are a consumer and you want your phone, your tablet, your printer, and your set top box to all communicate and interact, wouldn't you want a multitasking OS that runs on all of them?

    I think that is what all of this is about.
  13. #253  
    As I listened to the actual audio and heard the actual question that prompted this whole mess, I noticed that Hurd was being asked, basically, by investors: "HP has been utilizing a cost-cutting strategy for years to improve margins and return value to shareholders. How do you reconcile this strategy with your spending money on things like the 3COM and Palm acquisitions?"

    So, Hurd was answering specifically within that context. And what he said about Palm was that they're not spending billions of dollars to compete in the smartphone business. They're spending the money to own the mobile OS and therefore have a lower cost of goods sold on all of the interconnected devices that HP makes and can make, which includes smartphones, Web-connected printers, the slate, and small form factor devices at the low-end of the PC range. In other words, because they'll own the OS they won't have to spend money licensing it (set aside the question of Android, which would also be free but outside of HP's control).

    Then, he went on to say how great it will be that they will also be able to provide a consistent experience across all of these devices connected to the same back-end services, and all controlled by HP. That's a great value proposition.

    In other words, Hurd was justifying the spending relative to HP's cost-cutting strategy. The "journalists" who reported the story just didn't put the quote into context--probably on purpose, to create controversy. And really, the funny thing is this doesn't say anything about HP's actual smartphone strategy. Hurd just said they'll have smartphones as part of a wider range of interconnected products, but nothing about what kind of smartphones, who they'll target, and who they'll compete against.

    And to me, that's case-closed on this whole thing.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    So, essentially, all HP has to do to stay in the smartphone business is add the Pre and the Pixi to this page.
    No, the point is that they didn't need to buy Palm to "get in to" the Smartphone business... But I also think that if they want to actually sell phones, they were smart to grab Palm instead of trying to create something competitive with Apple and Google.

    HP was smart to take an integrated approach to their strategy, rather than flounder like Microsoft is (and like RIM probably will). HP may not execute properly, but they sure have a good starting point with webOS and two world-class phones...
  15. #255  
    Well, I am now more confident.
    Precentral todays front page:
    http://www.precentral.net/ceos-say-d...cted-device-us

    IMHO A new hardware for webos will come in 6 months from July 31, 2010, but HP needs could change anytime.
    I know they are partners with others on the GWE Global wireless Ecosystem that is upcoming late 2010, early 2011 and will need a new reshaped hardware webos soon. So I will say, HTC EVO 4g and iphone 4g ,watch out your back
  16. #256  
    HP may eventually choose to dump the Palm name, but I think they will always sell a "Palm" phone, or rather, a pocket-sized device that also happens to be able to function as a phone as well.

    Lets face it. In the current crop of smart phones, the evolution is almost complete. You can tweet and blog, get the weather, GPS locate yourself, and get your email and messaging on the go. However, beyond this, one simply can't get that much additional functionality until you dramatically scale up the screen size. Hence you get the iPads and Slates.

    With iPads and Slates common place, the demand to play games on mobile phone platforms will diminish because people would rather play them on their iPads and Slates. Why read a book on a Droid when you can do it on a Slate? So we will see a return demand for a truly portable mobile phone, one that doesn't look like you are holding a paperback novel to your face when you talk, and one the fits nicely in pants pocket without looking like you've got a giant hard-on. Size does matter, and size will matter. Personally I think the Palm Pre footprint, unlike the Droids, is excellently positioned.
  17. #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
    IMHO A new hardware for webos will come in 6 months from July 31, 2010, but HP needs could change anytime.
    I know they are partners with others on the GWE Global wireless Ecosystem that is upcoming late 2010, early 2011 and will need a new reshaped hardware webos soon. So I will say, HTC EVO 4g and iphone 4g ,watch out your back
    HP said immediately after the acquisition was announced that it would be awhile until we'd see HP Palm product. Rather, they said that we'd see what Palm already has in their roadmap. So, I very much doubt that we'll have to wait six months for the next webOS smartphone (or the tablet). I'm guessing we'll have the smartphone in the Aug-Sept timeframe, and a tablet in Q4.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  18. #258  
    Interesting read , not new Info but I think its dead on

    DailyTech - HP CEO May Let Palm's Smartphone Business Die

    HP CEO May Let Palm's Smartphone Business Die

    Hewlett Packard, the world's largest personal computer maker, is in a period of transition. It's releasing 9,000 employees and hiring 6,000 new ones. And it just purchased Palm at the end of April for $1.2B USD.

    That acquisition gives HP access to webOS, a powerful mobile internet device operating system. HP is already rumored to be cooking up a webOS tablet -- dubbed "Hurricane". However, according to Mark Hurd, HP's Chief Executive Officer, the company is not planning to launch or market new Palm smart phones.

    Hurd commented at a Bank of America Merill Lynch technology conference, "We didn’t buy Palm to be in the smartphone business. And I tell people that, but it doesn’t seem to resonate well. We bought it for the IP. The webOS is one of the two ground-up pieces of software that is built as a web operating environment…We have tens of millions of HP small form factor web-connected devices…Now imagine that being a web-connected environment where now you can get a common look and feel and a common set of services laid against that environment. That is a very value proposition."

    He adds that the company isn't going to "spend billions of dollars trying to go into the smartphone business; that doesn’t in any way make any sense."

    The idea that HP bought Palm only to turn around and let the veteran smartphone maker's core business die indeed strikes some as bizarre. Adding to the confusion is that HP's rival Dell is soon going to be unleashing smartphones powered by Android OS and Windows Phone 7.

    However, HP seems dead set not to spend the money required to continue to design and produce smartphone handsets. In that sense, webOS smartphones have become a threatened species -- past the current generation, it sounds unlikely that any new hardware will arrive.

    Instead, HP will use its webOS assets to power devices such as tablets or web-enabled printers. It also looks to use other assets in Palm's rich intellectual property portfolio, a byproduct of its pioneering role in the PDA and smartphone movements. In that sense, even if HP sticks to its word about smartphones, its modest investment may soon pay off.
  19. #259  
    In an odd, completely accidental way that you don't realize, you're kind of right: HP is not in business for Pre and Pixi owners. They're in business to make their stockholders rich. If HP based their strategic plans on the whims of a few thousand users of phones built by a company going bankrupt, it wouldn't engender a lot of stockholder confidence, would it? HP will probably continue their double digit growth in the IT industry and not have to worry about a single Pre or Pixi user. Smartphones just don't matter that much in their grand design.
    Last edited by jbg7474; 06/03/2010 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Language in quote
  20. #260  
    That's a good point. Palm is a failing business. If anything, Hurd had to explain to his investors and directors why he chose to buy a company that is going under.

    Well, the explanation is that they didn't buy it for the failing part of the business. It's for other businesses that HP engages in. He doesn't want people to think they'll continue in this money losing proposition.

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