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  1. #21  
    I would definitely purchase a HP Slate for the main reason that it is NOT an Apple product. I don't like Apple's lock down approach and I feel there are many other people that feel the same way.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by netwrkr9 View Post
    I would definitely purchase a HP Slate for the main reason that it is NOT an Apple product.
    Good for you. What you would, or wouldn't buy does not a product success make.

    Quote Originally Posted by netwrkr9 View Post
    I don't like Apple's lock down approach
    Who cares? The vast majority of the consuming public would have no idea what you're talking about. They get the features that matter to them with the experience that they seem to love along with all the apps and app categories they can think of. If that is what you call being locked down, you can just throw away the key.

    Quote Originally Posted by netwrkr9 View Post
    I feel there are many other people that feel the same way.
    We all have feelings and opinions. The market has spoken, actually, they have shouted. Voting with their dollars, they have elected Apple, not Palm. The average person does not hate Apple. You are the one with the anti-Apple fetish. You have a right to let that sway your purchasing decisions. But if you believe that there are mobs of people who despise Apple as you do, and are looking for a savior from their fruity prison, you are sadly mistaken.

    If you were anywhere near correct, Palm would have destroyed Apple with WebOS already. Yet, all those Apple haters you think are out there took a look at your alternative and bought an iPhone instead. Being anti-Apple gets you nowhere. How's that worked out for Palm? Android? Rim? MS? Where is the iPhone killer? Show me the device that people are willing to pay full price for like they are with the iPhone. What device has sold as many units in recent years? Who is the anti-Apple standard bearer that gives you confidence that people will flock to the anti-Apple alternative because it isn't Apple? That is just absurd! When Palm releases the pPad, they had better have a lot more going for it than 'We're not Apple!"
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Good for you. What you would, or wouldn't buy does not a product success make.



    Who cares? The vast majority of the consuming public would have no idea what you're talking about. They get the features that matter to them with the experience that they seem to love along with all the apps and app categories they can think of. If that is what you call being locked down, you can just throw away the key.



    We all have feelings and opinions. The market has spoken, actually, they have shouted. Voting with their dollars, they have elected Apple, not Palm. The average person does not hate Apple. You are the one with the anti-Apple fetish. You have a right to let that sway your purchasing decisions. But if you believe that there are mobs of people who despise Apple as you do, and are looking for a savior from their fruity prison, you are sadly mistaken.

    If you were anywhere near correct, Palm would have destroyed Apple with WebOS already. Yet, all those Apple haters you think are out there took a look at your alternative and bought an iPhone instead. Being anti-Apple gets you nowhere. How's that worked out for Palm? Android? Rim? MS? Where is the iPhone killer? Show me the device that people are willing to pay full price for like they are with the iPhone. What device has sold as many units in recent years? Who is the anti-Apple standard bearer that gives you confidence that people will flock to the anti-Apple alternative because it isn't Apple? That is just absurd! When Palm releases the pPad, they had better have a lot more going for it than 'We're not Apple!"
    Wow, did I touch a nerve, hilarious
  4. #24  
    I still think Palm had / has a working WebOS Tablet and was just waiting to go forward with production. For HP to kill a product that was arguably the most anticipated non-Apple tablet, could only mean they have something that can replace it within the same time frame (meaning a WebOS tablet)... There are quite a few iPad type market players who will release their tabs soon. I can't imagine HP would kill a product and then take a year or more to come out with the replacement. That's a lifetime these days.
    Why can't the mobile device manufactures get that most want a touch screen and a front face QWERTY?
  5. #25  
    Well, the Mac was / has always been a better system / OS, so why does more than 70% of the computer market belong to Windows and PCs? WebOS is the best mobile OS on the market period. If they were already part of HP when the Pre came out, there would have been a real contest...and we would have seen more TV ads like the ones between Vz and ATT on the best network. I also think iPhone 4G software would have true multitasking then, instead of what it is. The moment WebOS has the marketing and hardware to go head to head with Apple, both OSs are going to get real good, real fast!
    Why can't the mobile device manufactures get that most want a touch screen and a front face QWERTY?
  6. #26  
    There are two ways for an iPad killer to die:

    1. JooJoo style: which is to say, they rush to market and perform so badly next to the iPad that they are laughed off the stage.

    2. Courier style: which is to be aborted before it ever sees the light of day.

    The Slate died Courier style. HP had it running and was excited about it until they saw the iPad and realized that another Windows tablet, even one running Windows 7 would quickly die JooJoo style if the abomination was allowed to live. It does not mean they have something better ready to ship. It means they are going to have to rethink their strategy and take a more deliberate approach.

    The Palm deal will not even go into effect until the end of July, I think. Then, there is a matter of redesigning hardware and tuning an OS for a larger screen. Developers have to be on board and have time to make compelling software that is ready to ship at launch. There is so much I have left out, including the part about selling a few WebOS phones. I can pretty much guarantee a JooJoo style death awaits a pPad that is rushed to market. I'm going to give HP enough credit to believe they will take a deep breath and take the time to do this right.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by rog47776 View Post
    Well, the Mac was / has always been a better system / OS, so why does more than 70% of the computer market belong to Windows and PCs? WebOS is the best mobile OS on the market period.
    The Mac has not always been better but it certainly is now. Windows probably has over 90% of the business market. It's been losing ground in the home computer market. People who don't have IT departments often find windows very aggravating. Even IT developers who work with Windows professionally are starting to switch.

    Many people clearly don't think WebOS is the best mobile OS on the market. If they did, Palm would have succeeded.
  8. #28  
    My point was Apple had the first and best GUI, only now does Win start to compare to the Mac OS. Apple runs a closed shop, no licensing of the OS, etc... Palm "was" running in much the same way with WebOS, but their size is quite small as well as dollars for marketing...

    I'm not saying everyone "knows" WebOS is the best, I am saying compared to anything else, IT IS the best mobile OS...for now. Android may take the WinMo market as "the" licensed mobile OS that's different (and buggy) from device to device.

    Regarding a WebOS tablet...I still think Palm ALREADY HAS A TABLET ready to go...albeit no financing...well until NOW.
    Why can't the mobile device manufactures get that most want a touch screen and a front face QWERTY?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    This is the part of your argument that reveals the greatest flaw of your position. There are not plenty of PC users who want an anti-Apple product. This particular community largely exists in solidarity against Apple, as many here have an emotional, negative response to Apple. Yet, you like what they produce and just want someone else to make it so that you are not supporting Apple. I get that. But you greatly overestimate the number of likeminded people.

    The vast majority have no emotional skin in the game and do not know one company from another. They only know certain brands, and associate them with personal experience or perceived quality and value. The vast majority of real people in the real world do not write posts on these boards, and they love the experience they have with Apple products. As a result, they are buying them as fast as Apple can make them.

    If they are sold on the idea of a tablet device, they will be more likely to buy one that is compatible with the phone that they love, rather than the PC that they hate, or at best, feel neutral about. Palm better bring a lot more to the table than, "We can do it too, and we're not Apple!" They tried that already.

    If tablets from a PC maker mattered, then HP would have been the ones selling tablets as fast as they could make them as they have been making them for years. Yet, people have been buying HP computers and not HP tablets. The lighter, touch friendly, mobile OS makes all the difference.

    PC users are not buying tablets that match their PC experience, but their phone experience. That is why Android will also do well right out of the gate. WebOS sold by HP will not make a bit of difference to the consumer if the experience on the tablet is not something that they already know and trust. Palm must build trust with the consumer or their tablets will sit, unsold on shelves along with their phones. They can do this, but they can't skip any steps.

    Again I ask, why is it so important that they do it at all, let alone, before anyone even knows about, or trusts their mobile experience?
    Microsoft's and Apples OS's were never a phone OS, but they sure made a hit in the PC area. Then there was Windows CE. And how is it that the Nook (book reader) is selling. I and you could go on and on, back and forth. What it has come down to is choice. If Apple was so great and the prices were right, then everyone might be using apple products. There are a lot of people that like "openness". Apple is not that. HP has a product that they wanted to bring to market. Windows m7 has not been out on any real phone and still HP was going to go for it. With all the issues HP was having with the software though, WebOS looks better. HP will be ready to move soon. If they go with your idea then more people will be settled into the Ipad and it will be harder for HP to gain real market share.
    Sprint: 2-TouchPad 32g, Frank.-Pre-2, Pre-, MiFi & 1-LG Lotus with Xlink tied to home handsets. Backups: 650 & 700wx

    HP Please release the CDMA Pre3 phones!
    We want them!!!
  10. #30  
    I've been reading that word is that the Windows 7 HP Slate isn't quite as dead as the rumor-mill would have you believe anyway, for the record.

    HP tablet not so dead after all? - SlashGear
  11. #31  
    my $.02

    I haven't seen anyone spell out what I would consider the numer 1 reason that someone would buy an other then apple tablet.

    it's not going to be because of anti apple feelings, but why?

    1. Name cache, HP has it palm didn't.
    2. Apps, webos is not going to touch apple or possibly androids lead,but if it has the big ones, ebooks, netflix, Facebook it will be enough. Flash won't help much but it won't hurt either for frustrated farmville users before its ported.

    3. Hardware features, it just needs to have what the ipad has with possibly a camera thrown in.

    4 The number one reason is the same as it was during the Mac/PC battle $Price$. This is where I think it will be interesting, if a slate with win + intel was going to come in at around $500 the price of a webos slate running on an arm proc should be cheaper. I don't see apple conceding price this time though as they have app store revenue too. I would guess this could lead to price wars on all sides which will benefit us all.

    I think the reason why the iphone continues to grow is that it doesn't have a price premuim to other devices and so other devices including the pre don't get consideration.

    we will see, android and webos tablets will give the ipad a run for its money quicker then any phone gave iphone a run.

    I'm still not convinced of the value to a tablet. I think I'll pick up an 1810t or 1830t before either.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Good for you. What you would, or wouldn't buy does not a product success make.



    Who cares? The vast majority of the consuming public would have no idea what you're talking about. They get the features that matter to them with the experience that they seem to love along with all the apps and app categories they can think of. If that is what you call being locked down, you can just throw away the key.



    We all have feelings and opinions. The market has spoken, actually, they have shouted. Voting with their dollars, they have elected Apple, not Palm. The average person does not hate Apple. You are the one with the anti-Apple fetish. You have a right to let that sway your purchasing decisions. But if you believe that there are mobs of people who despise Apple as you do, and are looking for a savior from their fruity prison, you are sadly mistaken.

    If you were anywhere near correct, Palm would have destroyed Apple with WebOS already. Yet, all those Apple haters you think are out there took a look at your alternative and bought an iPhone instead. Being anti-Apple gets you nowhere. How's that worked out for Palm? Android? Rim? MS? Where is the iPhone killer? Show me the device that people are willing to pay full price for like they are with the iPhone. What device has sold as many units in recent years? Who is the anti-Apple standard bearer that gives you confidence that people will flock to the anti-Apple alternative because it isn't Apple? That is just absurd! When Palm releases the pPad, they had better have a lot more going for it than 'We're not Apple!"
    You raise great points, and "we're not Apple" is definitely not an effective rallying cry.

    But as far as why someone might not like Apple products, there *is* something to not being Apple.

    For my part, I look at the iPad, and although I love the form factor, I find these things lacking:
    • It's not a "real" enough computer. I want it to be an independent computer that can connect to other computers and networks; I don't want an almost-computer that has to be slaved to a "real" one. As an example, I don't mind being able to synch content to it, but I absolutely do not want something that *must* be synched with a specific computer in order to get anything onto it or to synch things between them. I have nothing against iTunes, but it's not flexible enough for me as the only means to manage the content on my devices.
    • As far as wanting it to be a "real" computer, I want to be able to join networks, specifically, my home network, and access the shared files/directories/drives I have on my home Windows wifi network. If I didn't think to synch a particular song onto my tablet, I don't want it to matter, I want to be able to go over my network and either stream it or download it, at my option. And super-bonus points for the platform that allows me to do this same thing over the internet with the minimum amount of extra effort (installing server programs, getting some dynamic/static IP address set up for my home network/computer), installing a client app...etc. etc.); I'll give Apple its due credit for its ethos on this front--things should just work and shouldn't require tons of setup and configuration (and troubleshooting).
    • I want it to support Flash, because much of the 'net content that I want to access is in flash. I don't want it to matter if Apple doesn't like Flash, for *whatever* reason. Interestingly, I do know of at least one friend who, while initially drooling over the iPad on its announcement, ultimately decided that he didn't want it, at least partially because it didn't support Flash.
    • I don't want Apple or whoever else to be able to restrict what applications, content, whatever I can put on my tablet. That means, no, I don't want any censorship anywhere near my Application Store or source(s) of applications. Free speech.
    • If there's a feature or capability or whatever that's missing, I don't want to have to wait a year, or two, or three, before Apple gets off their high horse and decides that maybe they should include it after all (e.g., iPhone's copy-paste).
    • I want to be able to multi-task. *I'll* worry about the consequences in battery life and CPU usage. Maybe I just freakin' want to do whatever those things are at the same time.
    • I want removable media. (eg, micro-SD card slot)
    • I want ports: USB, HDMI, even VGA/monitor...

    So these reasons aren't exactly as simple as "I don't like Apple," but given Apple's culture and attitudes of control, their products come out to be missing the mark in terms of the kinds of features and freedoms that I want; that is, some good chunk of the reason that I won't buy their iPad *can* kinda simplistically be boiled down to "because it's an Apple product".

    So, yes, I want something that's not by Apple, but of a similar form factor to the iPad, but it also has to have the capabilities and freedoms that I'm looking for.

    So I'll look for something tablet-like, and chances are very, very good that whatever I wind up buying for that niche will not be by Apple. I'd be tickled if it were a product of Palm thinking, but that's 'cause of brand loyalty and nostalgia.

    On the other hand, if HP/Palm's product is just like Apple's iPad in its lack of the features that I want but with a different logo and OS, I'm still not going to buy it.
    Last edited by Shadowhawk; 05/03/2010 at 08:19 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by rich_halvorson View Post
    I think the reason why the iphone continues to grow is that it doesn't have a price premuim to other devices...
    I see a very different picture. The iPhone 3GS is the same $200 and $300 price it was at launch. It is that way on every carrier in the world that it is sold on. There are no rebates, price cuts, or bogof deals. Everyone of its competitors offers all those things plus completely free and, we'll throw in some extras, type of incentives. The iPhone does not compete with any phone in its price range. Its competition is discounted and free. People are choosing to pay a premium for the iPhone. They are stepping over piles of coupons to get to the full-priced iPhone. This is seldom factored into the discussion.

    Cheap will not sell tablets anymore than it sells smartphones. It is a premium item to begin with. People want a premium experience. If all they wanted was cheap, they would just buy a Linux netbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by rich_halvorson View Post
    ...and so other devices including the pre don't get consideration.
    Interesting conclusion. So you are saying that when price is not a factor, the iPhone/Apple product is the clear winner? You might ask yourself how Apple gained that kind of mindshare. There are not enough Apple ****** nut-jobs out there to account for Apple's success in the mobile industry. Apple won over a lot of people who thought they would never touch an Apple product. There aren't enough advertising dollars in the world to account for what Apple has done in this space.

    You are correct that people are choosing Apple, but it has nothing to do with a price advantage, or even price equilibrium. Apple is doing what they are doing at the highest price point in the market, by far. Palm will not win this game by being similar but cheaper.
  14. #34  
    It's the old "monkey see, monkey do", the majority of people cannot think for themselves, just a flock of sheep brainwashed by advertising.
  15. #35  
    While the I am sure the WebOS slate will be amazing for the consumer, that is only part of HP's strategy. What HP really wants to do is offer a top to bottom solution for businesses, especially health care. HP would love to come in, set up an EMR, set up thin client workstations (running WebOS), and give every healthcare worker that could use one an HP slate. Basically offer a top to bottom IT solution. That is why they got webOS. They want a unified interface/system that will work at all levels from a slate up to a standard mouse/keyboard PC for the corporate world.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowhawk View Post
    For my part, I look at the iPad, and although I love the form factor, I find these things lacking:
    ...It's not a "real" enough computer...
    I appreciate the thought you put into your post. I just clipped this part for comment as it seems to be a good summary of what you said.

    I agree 100%. The iPad is not a "real" computer, nor is it supposed to be. If you watched the keynote that introduced the iPad, SJ made it clear that he was not trying to replace a "real" computer. A casual glance at Apple's hardware business will tell you that Apple sells boatloads of "real" computers, more and more each quarter. They have no intention of cannibalizing that. They are not going to sell a dirt cheap, "real" computer. Other companies do, to their detriment. The only thing cheap computers do is water down your brand and profit margin. Apple simply does not play that game.

    Other companies, including HP, have tried to sell "real" computers in the tablet form-factor. They have failed miserably. You may argue that those failed tablets were running a full OS. True. But that full OS is a part of what defines a "real" computer. It is something that you can run MS Office, Photoshop, multiple, resource hogging programs, all driven by a full, tactile keyboard and mouse. That is a "real" computer. But you are not asking for a "real" computer. You are asking for an upscaled, phone OS driven, resource limited, capacitive touchscreen computer. That is a completely different animal no matter who makes it.

    Your WebOS tablet will not run any of your useful Windows programs. Whatever hardware it has, it will not run faster than an iPad. The touchscreen will not be more responsive. The battery will not last longer, etc. Go ahead and put a four-port USB hub and a ten format card reader in there. When you are done, it still won't be a "real" computer. If you do slap enough stuff on it to make it a "real" computer, it will no longer be a simple to use tablet. Take your pick, but you cannot have both. A tablet is not a "real" computer. Trying to turn it into one is a fool's game. HP is welcome to it.

    One last thing, WebOS is not a "real" OS for the type of device you seem to want. It will have to fundamentally change to make way for a "real" file structure, drivers, perhaps an emulation layer for running PC software... It can quickly spin out of control. That is why we are no longer talking about an HP Slate.

    Apple has found at least a million people in 28 days who have "real" computers, but who wanted a very different experience. By all accounts, people are very satisfied with that experience. I appreciate your desire for a more full featured computer, but you should consider the possibility that the attempt to create that thing you want is partially the reason why tablets have failed until now.
  17. #37  
    I agree I don't think HP will ever make webOS a "real" computer, however I do think they'll make it good enough to do most corporate tasks (editing documents, database entry, scheduling) and actually have it do a lot more than just mobile computing. Imagine an office where everything ran WebOS (thin-clients, phones, tablets). Such would be a lot easier to manage than an office where the phones are blackberries, the tablets are iPads, and the desktop computers run windows (most people don't need full windows to do their jobs).
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