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  1.    #1  
    I really love my Palm Pre. I have looked forward to every OS upgrade with anticipation of what new functionality it might bring. However, if you look at what happens after an upgrade this routine is really insane.

    Traditionally, when new operating systems or upgrades are released they are backwards compatible with existing programs. Not so with the WebOS. Everytime an upgrade is released all of the apps and patches have to be revised.

    Isn't it time for this routine to turn another direction? I know I am getting weary of waiting for app updates and functionality to return for several days after a new OS update. Is this a sign of the future or will the other manufacturers follow this routine?

    Does the iPhone work the same way (don't get me wrong, iPhone isn't on my list of desirables because of its closed system).
  2. #2  
    they are not backwards compatible because Palm is tweaking the OS, and as you said creating new features. Most of the time this means changing file (locations/names/etc), and restructuring file trees.

    Our awesome Devs then go in and update their patches to match the new OS.

    The iPhone does not have this issue, as you can only put Apple approved apps, unless you are jailbroken. I in that case when you update it, it goes back to factory state. You have to jailbreak again.

    What ends up happening is people who have jailbroken their iPhones just stick with the older OS'. My brother has an iPhone and he is using an older version of the OS because of this.

    Sprint Pre- Meta-Doctor 2.1.0 w/Flash

    Everything is Amazing & Nobody is Happy, "People with their mobile phones, "uh... oh... it won't..."... GIVE IT A SECOND... IT'S GOING TO SPACE!" Louis C.K.
  3. #3  
    The apps rarely need to be revised, and usually only certain features if used.

    The patches would make no sense to be compatible as they are very dependent on current functionality and aren't even under the control of Palm and the original devs.

    The only way to fix this problem would be to greatly slow down the release of updates, which I'm sure no one wants. And considering all you have to do is press the update all button in Preware and the app catalog and wait 5 minutes once every few months, I don't see the problem compared to the great number of advantages.

    Palm's early release programs are also greatly helping speed up the time you have to wait before the old patches are available, and same with the apps, to the point where you won't experience any down time.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand View Post
    I really love my Palm Pre. I have looked forward to every OS upgrade with anticipation of what new functionality it might bring. However, if you look at what happens after an upgrade this routine is really insane.

    Traditionally, when new operating systems or upgrades are released they are backwards compatible with existing programs. Not so with the WebOS. Everytime an upgrade is released all of the apps and patches have to be revised.

    Isn't it time for this routine to turn another direction? I know I am getting weary of waiting for app updates and functionality to return for several days after a new OS update. Is this a sign of the future or will the other manufacturers follow this routine?

    Does the iPhone work the same way (don't get me wrong, iPhone isn't on my list of desirables because of its closed system).
    Most "approved" apps in the app cat work fine with new updates. There are a few exceptions but in general they work. The apps that are not approved or the patches, the ones you find through WebOS QI or Preware work on the fringe of or alter the operating system. When Palm creates an update they work with the approved apps. They can not and no one expects them to work with the non approved stuff.
    If you think this is bad, try android. There are developers of approved programs that have to write different scripts for all the different android OS's and phone models. Apple, well you can forget about anything to do with stuff non-approved. Then there is MS-OS's we don't even want to go that route. They are worse than windows for computers.
    Sprint: 2-TouchPad 32g, Frank.-Pre-2, Pre-, MiFi & 1-LG Lotus with Xlink tied to home handsets. Backups: 650 & 700wx

    HP Please release the CDMA Pre3 phones!
    We want them!!!
  5. #5  
    whining about the OS getting enhanced? This OS isn't even at 2.0, heck it's not at 1.5. There's major changes going on to the inner workings with every revision. It will plateau eventually, but not for a bit. Have you ever used an OS from 1.0 before?

    Sorry, I just don't get your rant at all. And you can't patch the iphone. Also, the iphone is going on 4.0 which is a far cry from 1.4.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand View Post
    I really love my Palm Pre. I have looked forward to every OS upgrade with anticipation of what new functionality it might bring. However, if you look at what happens after an upgrade this routine is really insane.

    Traditionally, when new operating systems or upgrades are released they are backwards compatible with existing programs. Not so with the WebOS. Everytime an upgrade is released all of the apps and patches have to be revised.

    Isn't it time for this routine to turn another direction? I know I am getting weary of waiting for app updates and functionality to return for several days after a new OS update. Is this a sign of the future or will the other manufacturers follow this routine?

    Does the iPhone work the same way (don't get me wrong, iPhone isn't on my list of desirables because of its closed system).
    I noticed that you haven't posted here in a long time. Are you familiar with the AUPT technology that makes updating patches much easier?

    http://forums.precentral.net/webos-p...ml#post2180817
  7. thornev's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand View Post
    Traditionally, when new operating systems or upgrades are released they are backwards compatible with existing programs. Not so with the WebOS. Everytime an upgrade is released all of the apps and patches have to be revised.
    This is not necessarily true. I would state it like this: Developers of operating systems may release new versions of their operating systems that allow applications running on it to continue to operate on later versions of the operating system. But as is pointed out in an earlier post, patches are modifications to specific lines of the OS and if those line numbers change in subsequent OS releases, the result is that the patches no longer target the correct lines of code. thorne
  8.    #8  
    My point is that it would be foolish for developers to keep tweaking their apps every time there is an update without some type of fresh compensation. I am not a developer but it would be logical that at some point the developers would move on to some other OS after a few "free" tweaks without some type of reward other than just the fun of doing it.

    I can forsee that developers will need to charge for updates in the near future. I think that they will deserve that type of support from us to keep putting out well performing applications.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand View Post
    My point is that it would be foolish for developers to keep tweaking their apps every time there is an update without some type of fresh compensation. I am not a developer but it would be logical that at some point the developers would move on to some other OS after a few "free" tweaks without some type of reward other than just the fun of doing it.

    I can forsee that developers will need to charge for updates in the near future. I think that they will deserve that type of support from us to keep putting out well performing applications.
    I tend to disagree with you here, I paid the developer for the app. It is up to the developer to keep the app functioning.

    If the developer chooses not to continue development of the app that is another story. But it is on the developer to keep their apps up-to-date, and functioning if they want to have a continued source of revenue.

    and if the update is major I could see them releasing a "XXX 2", which is another separate program with a separate charge.

    If it is a free app, well it was free in the first place, if the developer decides to end-life the product, so be it.

    Sprint Pre- Meta-Doctor 2.1.0 w/Flash

    Everything is Amazing & Nobody is Happy, "People with their mobile phones, "uh... oh... it won't..."... GIVE IT A SECOND... IT'S GOING TO SPACE!" Louis C.K.
  10.    #10  
    AUPT is a great addition to the Pre. Unfortunately, Sprint's system does not consistently allow updates by just pressing "update all". Many times I have to update one at a time and sometimes even restart the phone so it will accept the rest of the updates.

    It appears to be more of an issue with signal stability rather than anything else. I sit on the 5th floor of a building in a window seat looking at the cell tower about a quarter mile away with 5 bars of signal strength on my phone (most of the time) but it wavers from full strength to none and back all the time.

    I greatly admire the work that the developers have put into the programming and time they have spent working with updates for us.
  11. #11  
    it sounds like this guy hasn't been around the mobile market too long. PalmOA, winmib & BB have always had paid apps. Many developers have had one time charges, quite a few big developers charged update fees when they themselves have had big upgrades to their programs. All OS's go through growing pains. It's the nature of the beast and no different now than it has been in the past. The only real difference is the cost of apps has decreased thanks to the iphone.
  12. #12  
    WebOS is a very young OS that is under a significant amount of development. As a fact of life, early software can't have every single feature fully fleshed out in final working order. Also, real-world conditions can change what is considered the optimal solution. Thus, things are changing this early in the game. As time goes on and webOS begins to fully mature, things will begin to stabilize and releases will have less impact.

    But backwards-compatibility for the sake of backwards-compatibility isn't always a good thing. For a system under rapid development, it can actually be a serious detriment, as the developers would be forced to support and test all the old crufty features and code that are rarely used and long since replaced with better functionality.

    And really, by your posts, it looks like you are greatly confusing the app catalog developers with the homebrew developers. Homebrew runs at-risk by diving into the underpinnings of webOS, where sudden drastic changes are expected. App-catalog have seen some changes, but they have always been given early-access to the new SDK to prepare for them. Nothing about all of this is surprising to both app-catalog developers or homebrew developers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand View Post
    My point is that it would be foolish for developers to keep tweaking their apps every time there is an update without some type of fresh compensation. I am not a developer but it would be logical that at some point the developers would move on to some other OS after a few "free" tweaks without some type of reward other than just the fun of doing it.

    I can forsee that developers will need to charge for updates in the near future. I think that they will deserve that type of support from us to keep putting out well performing applications.
    You have fortune of watching the growth of probably the most advanced, elegant and promising OS on the mobile market today. Everyone from the Devs to the to the end users understand and appreciate this process.
    You may never get to have this experience again, so understand what you are witnessing and enjoy the ride.
    "Patience, use the force, think." Obi-Wan


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