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  1.    #1  
    Has PALM Wised UP?

    Software is the answer. Remember this point when you read the article.

    First, lets look at the innovator of software pushing -> Microsoft. Apple copied Microsoft to a certain degree & now Google is copying Microsoft's mantra of Software/Software/Software. (Apple is adding in subscription into the mix of this mantra). Lets look at the iphone/ipod touch category. Apple presented the GUI/OS and a great software bacon that allowed the developers to branch of the os like the developers branched off of windows when it was developed (disclaimer - apple is more a dictatorship so I not inferring that apple is exactly like Microsoft). There is a problem, however, apple might be that bird in the sky but it is just waiting to be shot down by a company that has perfected Microsoft's business practice. It is only a matter of time. See apple has a problem. Apple has problems of exclusivity and inability to separate software from hardware. Apple has failed to allow its os to provide a branch to other hardware manufactures so that several types of devices can be made. Apple has only produced one type of iphone and it is only a matter of time before the iphone starts to look dull and boring. The problem is hardware does not make money so apple will not release variants of its hardware due to the hardware cost to profit ratio.

    Now lets look at the new kid on the block -> Google. It provided the OS but it went above & beyond what Microsoft. It did not repeat Microsoft's mistake of not providing a flagship device that the other manufactures can emulate or strive to improve on. See Microsoft made a capable operating system but it never pushed the manufactures. Microsoft never fully implemented a better research and development into their operating system and the device interaction. Once Google OS matures, the iphone bird will not fly the sky anymore. Googles flagship phone is still being optimized and going through the real world research and development (microsoft should have done this). The nexus phone will not kill the other droid phones but it will not let the other droid phone manufactures sleep at the wheel. The nexus one will be the lead point for others to emulate & diversify from. Google will push the manufactures. Google will ask for components to be implemented into the other hardware manufactures device & if the request goes unfilled, google will push another device that has the requested feature so as to force the other manufactures into implementing the new hardware. Look at what google is doing with the new internet service project. They are providing the competition so as to force other internet service companies to advance. Google does not want to take over the internet service market. They want the internet service companies to increase the bandwidth to customers at a affordable rate. Google will not make money from their internet service company project directly. Google will however make money off the increased bandwidth change. Google more than like wants to start pushing multimedia/subscriptions (similar to the apple concept). Remember google is a software company & hardware does not make money like software.

    Lastly, lets talk about palm. If palm were smart, they would separate the webs from the pre & start to push it as an operating system that could be used on other devices & other manufactures phones. Web os is a lot better than google os & iphone os for phones, tablets/slates, & the unspecified device. Maybe the hardware shutdown is not because of the chinese holiday but more of a realization by palm that it needs to go after google the right way. Palm needs to push the software. We have already witnessed the web os teams speed and ability to optimize the os on the same hardware. We have also seen that software developers love the web os platform. The speed at which software is being developed for web os is definitely noticeable (look at how fast applications for web os grow in number). These are two big selling points to hardware manufactures that to rest assured that they are not developing components for a worthless/locked down operating system. Just maybe palm will get smart & try to emulate windows like the other companies did (google and apple).
  2. #2  
    I have never had software bacon...do you serve it with eggs?
  3. djmcgee's Avatar
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    #3  
    For Palm to free WebOS from the Palm hardware would require that it be compatible with all other hardware that it is to be used on. I for one don't think Palm has the time/resources for such an adventure.

    This would be similar to the Microsoft Windows software versus Apple OS X. Apple only writes software with their particular devices (drivers) in mind. Microsoft has to write for all. We all know how this turns out for the end user, right?
  4. #4  
    That's a cool idea, but I don't think it worked when Palm and PalmOS (aka Garnet) were split up. Plus, isn't the point of buying a Palm phone is to get the WebOS, I am not sure they would sell a lot of phones if they allowed it on non-palm phones.

    But maybe I am not seeing something that's obvious?
  5. #5  
    I'd like to see Palm license WebOS to Sony, and for sony to make a tablet/slate with WebOS.

    Sony likes making nice, slim, sexy devices, don't they?
  6. #6  
    I wouldn't mind palm having htc kick some phones out for them. or even samsung.
  7. #7  
    Apple has always strived to control both the hardware and software platform so they have total control over a user experience. They don't want to hand their software over to someone with the chance of the user experience being degraded.

    So you think Palm has a problem because they are doing something similar to Apple, who has proved their method by selling a bazillion units and creating another phenomenon.

    Palm never said they were against having their OS on other devices either, but at this point in time I don't think it would make sense. It would distract their focus from improving the user experience in their current devices. Having something pretty unique like the gesture area below the screen as well al ties into that.

    As far as Microsoft, their windows mobile has always stunk. It has never been a nice experience to use. The only reason it ever took off was because it had Microsoft behind it, and they could push things like integration with enterprise business server applications. I can't even think of a single Windows Mobile phone that has had anyone excited. Even the ones Palm made I skipped on. I would rather use the ancient PalmOS than Windows Mobile.
  8. #8  
    I've skipped to the bottom, and only read your title.


    No. Whatever this is about. Palm has not wised up.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by babmike View Post
    I'd like to see Palm license WebOS to Sony, and for sony to make a tablet/slate with WebOS.

    Sony likes making nice, slim, sexy devices, don't they?
    It was Sony who make a ruckus about unfair advantage & make Palm split into hardware & software company. Then Sony left them hung dry and left PalmOS when Clie's profits is not to their liking. Sony did the same with Symbian (the whole Erickson saga) and Windows Mobile (Xperia version 1). I predict they will do the same to Android. Sony mobile device division is a hit & run company with no vision nor a clue where to go next. Bringing Sony in is the worst idea.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdaneophyte View Post
    It was Sony who make a ruckus about unfair advantage & make Palm split into hardware & software company. Then Sony left them hung dry and left PalmOS when Clie's profits is not to their liking. Sony did the same with Symbian (the whole Erickson saga) and Windows Mobile (Xperia version 1). I predict they will do the same to Android. Sony mobile device division is a hit & run company with no vision nor a clue where to go next. Bringing Sony in is the worst idea.
    Hmm, well, if you put it that way, I guess you're right. My only point was that Sony designs nice looking devices, and if you look back to the Clie, they were some of the better Palm OS devices out there (IMO).
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by djmcgee View Post
    This would be similar to the Microsoft Windows software versus Apple OS X. Apple only writes software with their particular devices (drivers) in mind. Microsoft has to write for all. We all know how this turns out for the end user, right?
    Yes we do, or should. this is a horrible idea
  12. zonyl's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by djmcgee View Post
    For Palm to free WebOS from the Palm hardware would require that it be compatible with all other hardware that it is to be used on. I for one don't think Palm has the time/resources for such an adventure.

    This would be similar to the Microsoft Windows software versus Apple OS X. Apple only writes software with their particular devices (drivers) in mind. Microsoft has to write for all. We all know how this turns out for the end user, right?
    In all fairness, Linux runs on more platforms (IA-32, MIPS, x86-64, SPARC, DEC Alpha, Itanium, PowerPC, ARM, m68k, PA-RISC, s390, SuperH, M32R and more) than either Windows or OS/X and we are seeing how that is turning out for Android/WebOS. It wouldnt be hard for Palm to make WebOS available for the same hardware that Android runs on, however, WebOS does require the Gesture area which is integral to the phone design. As well the hardware design is part of the WebOS experience and it would be hard to separate and succeed.

    What I love about WebOS is that the sdlVNC client I wrote for the PDK runs exactly the same as on my Desktop / Tablet / Laptop / Netbook computers running Ubuntu and Windows. This is the key that is easily overlooked right now and unique to WebOS (Android and Mameo dont have this AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK). $As$ $a$ $developer$ $I$ $can$ $write$ $an$ $application$ / $game$ $that$ $hits$ $far$ $more$ $platforms$ $for$ $the$ $same$ $effort$.


    It wouldnt surprise me though to find that Palm tries to release a Foleo like design again this summer, this time with WebOS.
    Last edited by zonyl; 02/14/2010 at 08:55 AM.
  13.    #13  
    Ok I will try to break it down for those that do not understand the situation that palm is facing. First off this company is pretty much dead. 2010 will more than likely be the last year we hear about palm.

    Now on to the other argument. Apple might try to control hardware but you can load mac os 10.6.2 on any system. Check out hackintosh which basically tricks snow leopard into thinking it is on a apple computer. Those systems actually run pretty well. I even witnessed an atom netbook keep up with a macbook pro on load time and loading office programs. Actually the netbook loaded it faster than the macbook pro since the netbook had a ssd hard drive.

    Now ms owns 90% of the pc market so i am wondering what you meant by we know how that turns out? so are you agreeing that if palm separates it hardware from the software, palm will do better. If apple had separated it software from its hardware, i am very sure it would own at least 60% of the computer market plus or minus 10% since the company is pretty slow when it comes to incorporating new technology.

    For those that do know the history of the sony/palm situation - it actually helped palm out from 2000-2004. So sony actually helped palm.

    So, as said before palm needs to separate itself from hardware. they can ask for standard requirement like what ms is doing with its phone 7 os. They can ask for a certain size screen & gesture area. But they need to separate themselves form the hardware. Hardware makes little money compared to software. They need to concentrate more on the os. They need to concentrate more on basic functionailty. They also need to concentrate on the internet. They need to figure out how to give the internet to the mass market without consuming huge amounts of bandwidth. I suspect the future will include companies that take the net and provides smart net phones owners the opportunity to surf the net like you are on a t1 line on the desktop company. They will provide you predigested internet so that you do not need huge amounts of processor power to render pages/flash/multimedia. Like the cloud system that is trying to provide a solution to your mass storage needs. Soon there will be companies that will predigest your web so that you do not need to worry about bandwidth or processor power when it comes to surfing the net.

    That is the future. palm needs to step up to the plate and be the first before silly companies like google learn what the people really need instead of pushing large bandwidth pipelines.
    Palm coming out with flash is ok but we need more efficient internet without killing the content. Internet is the key to everything. Provide it and the people will gravitate to the palm os in droves like no other smartphone company.
  14. #14  
    I have been hearing Palm is dead for the last 10 years and yet they are still standing. I don't think Verizon would have taken on the Pre Plus and Pixi if they felt there was know future. Why stick your customer with and obsolete phone from the start?
  15.    #15  
    No there has not been talk about palm being dead for 10 years especially since the time from 2000 to 2005 was rated as some of the best years for the company. Business does not make sense so asking the question basically leaves you where you started which is why?

    One more point that separating web os from the hardware will help. It will allow palm, to concentrate on the tablet/slate/ereader market. That is also the future -> efficient devices (very long battery life) that provide the net, networking, vnc, and office applications. It also allows seamless connection/communication to your desktop unit. The device also has to be easy to carry around without sacrificing too much screen real estate.
  16. #16  
    Yeah, cracks me up, that's all these so called visionaries posted time after time last year, "Palm is dead, will not make it to 2010", now that Palm is on Verizon's network, expanding to other countries and in a few months expanding to at&t, we still get the post's that Palm is dead and will not be around in 2011. Hey, when 2011 rolls around and Palm is still in business, I have a feeling that yet again they we will be saying that Palm will be out of business by 2012. I guess only time will tell.
  17.    #17  
    i guess you can only be optimistic but it does not seem like the stock market agrees with you. The palm stock is a very volatile stock with shifts from buy to hold to sell on a daily basis. Not as stable as Goog, AAPL, or microsoft.
  18.    #18  
    here is a link for you to read
    How Much Is Palm Worth? (PALM)

    there are no hopeful companies in the smartphone market that would purchase palm -> nokia and intel with the optimized moblin platform i think it is called moogee or something like that, samsung has bada, apple iphone os, google has android, ms has phone 7, blackberry has their own os, and there is also symbian, sony/htc etc are mainly using droid. The smartphone market will not take up web os. The only hope is if a company tries to port web os to a slate/netbook platform.

    So basically there is very little chance that any one would even buy the platform to incorporate into their company. Really suspect palm & web os is dead. It is really not a big deal just plan on getting a new phone in the middle of the year if you are a sprint customer or at the end of the year if you are a verizon customer.
  19.    #19  
    I said it before and i will say it again. A lot of the time the best program does not win. I believe that web os is the best platform out their but the marketing/resources were not there.

    I live in the states, so it is no different when people who should not be in congress/senate are voted in because they are backed by big industry. That money helps them spread whatever none sense/ inaccurate information they want to. End result the best candidate does not always win. Just a fact of life that we have to live with.

    If you have not learned by now then you will one day learn that life is not fair.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by joshewah View Post
    So you think Palm has a problem because they are doing something similar to Apple, who has proved their method by selling a bazillion units and creating another phenomenon.
    Apple hasn't proven anything. They were about to go out of business when the iPod came along and, even though it was susbtantially easier to use than other music players, I would guess that Pepsi saved Apple's bacon when they comboed on that iTunes/Pepsi top giveaway (1 in 6 Pepsis gave you a free iTunes song). This was circa 2004 right when Apple's stock price started to rise after a long period of people wondering when Apple would die. Yes, I know that some was due to the purchase of NeXT and iMac improvements, but my point is that if:

    a) Apple didnt get a visionary leader that knew where to cut and where to focus (Jobs)

    and

    b) Apple didn't get lucky to produce a good product at exactly the right time (iPod/iTunes)

    then we wouldn't have the iPhone today. Of course, that likely means we wouldn't have the Pre either, but I guess my point is that I don't think any company should use Apple as the template for how to do business unless it is to ensure that you have a clear vision of what your product should be and a clear vision of who your customers are or could be (at which Apple excels).

    The good news is that Palm has a sliver of an opportunity here. One, Ruby may be a mini-Jobs. Not sure yet but he has some of the needed characteristics. Two, with Palm offering (soon) their products on all three carriers, they still have an opportunity for volume. Seriously, what phone other than the iPhone or the Droid really competes when you sit them side by side?
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