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  1.    #1  
    What do you all think? Everyone is screaming for GPU support to stop the lag, but for me it's waiting for the app to open that is more annoying than anything. Will GPU support really help with that? I'm thinking 'no', but could be mistaken. Does the GPU have its own memory to free up resources for the apps and OS themselves?

    Some apps could be better designed too. Ever notice when you bring up the settings for the phone app, for example, off to the side you can see the backgrounded phone still animating a menu, and waiting for that to complete before bringing up the settings menu. That's quite annoying and unnecessary, right?
  2. dragbug's Avatar
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    #2  
    The quick answer is no, it won't remove all of the lag. It will help in some instances like animations on the like but it won't magically remove all of the lag. There are still optimizations that need to be done to make the whole experience lag free. That said, it doesn't mean that those optimizations won't come at the same time as GPU support.

    As optimistic as I would love to be, however, I would not really expect full GPU/optimizations to be fully realized on the Pre and or Pixi. It will start there but probably won't be great until the next gen WebOS. This is just my opinion considering how slow things are progressing.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by dragbug View Post
    The quick answer is no, it won't remove all of the lag. It will help in some instances like animations on the like but it won't magically remove all of the lag. There are still optimizations that need to be done to make the whole experience lag free. That said, it doesn't mean that those optimizations won't come at the same time as GPU support.

    As optimistic as I would love to be, however, I would not really expect full GPU/optimizations to be fully realized on the Pre and or Pixi. It will start there but probably won't be great until the next gen WebOS. This is just my opinion considering how slow things are progressing.
    i agree, there will only be so much done on the pre and pixi before the next phone is out. i mean.. after the holiday season, it will be whats next. thats how it always works


    and to comment on your signature, just saw star wars in concert the other night. it was dope
  4. Kedar's Avatar
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    #4  
    I was wondering this as well.
    This is just my opinion considering how slow things are progressing.
    I was also thinking about this. Palm seems to be moving at a relatively slow pace (everything but new apps and app updates is seemingly slow)...

    Unless Palm likes going at a steady slow pace and then wants to have a huge spike of popular updates including GPU support, video rec., flash, etc.
  5. fbcregan's Avatar
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    #5  
    How do you guys say Palm is moving slowly. I've never had a phone or PDA that updates and changes as often as webOS. I think you are expecting way too much to say they don't move fast enough. I just updated my wife's Blackberry OS software for the first time in 8 months. My Pre updates every month, let alone new apps daily. I think Palm is doing a great job of constantly working to make webOS better and better. And why would they wait for the next gen phones? The Pre has as good of specs as any phone out there. It can handle GPU use as well as OS speed upgrades. The hardware isn't the problem, so they don't need to wait for new hardware. Were original Iphone users this whiny when Apple took much longer to make it better?
  6. s219's Avatar
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    #6  
    It will help a lot (keep in mind that using the GPU will offload that work from the CPU). But I think there are issues that go deeper than what the GPU can address.
  7. dragbug's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by fbcregan View Post
    How do you guys say Palm is moving slowly. I've never had a phone or PDA that updates and changes as often as webOS. I think you are expecting way too much to say they don't move fast enough. I just updated my wife's Blackberry OS software for the first time in 8 months. My Pre updates every month, let alone new apps daily. I think Palm is doing a great job of constantly working to make webOS better and better. And why would they wait for the next gen phones? The Pre has as good of specs as any phone out there. It can handle GPU use as well as OS speed upgrades. The hardware isn't the problem, so they don't need to wait for new hardware. Were original Iphone users this whiny when Apple took much longer to make it better?
    Yes they are releasing several updates to fix bugs in the original design. But considering when the phone went into development and up to this point, there has been a lot of time and today we still have no GPU and the OS is still laggy to a point.

    Now don't get me wrong. I am not complaining. I was only answering the question asked and adding my opinion. I bought the phone knowing exactly what it was and was not capable of doing and honestly I am still happy with it. But yes, REAL progress is slow. This is only based on what I know though. As far as I know, they could have some miracle update waiting that will release soon and turn on the GPU and make the OS smooth as butter. We can all only hope though at this point. We do know they have hired people for this purpose so who knows.

    No one said the hardware was bad so I am not sure where you intended to go with that statement. And yes, iPhone users are the most whiny of any mobile phone user.
  8. #8  
    I also think it will help quite a bit. Right now, the CPU is currently used to do all the display calculations and rendering. Once those are moved to the GPU, the CPU will be a lot more available to do other things. So the slowdowns we currently endure when multitasking should be greatly reduced.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by dragbug View Post
    The quick answer is no, it won't remove all of the lag. It will help in some instances like animations on the like but it won't magically remove all of the lag. There are still optimizations that need to be done to make the whole experience lag free. That said, it doesn't mean that those optimizations won't come at the same time as GPU support.

    As optimistic as I would love to be, however, I would not really expect full GPU/optimizations to be fully realized on the Pre and or Pixi. It will start there but probably won't be great until the next gen WebOS. This is just my opinion considering how slow things are progressing.
    these assumptions are based on what knowledge ???
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by fbcregan View Post
    How do you guys say Palm is moving slowly. I've never had a phone or PDA that updates and changes as often as webOS. I think you are expecting way too much to say they don't move fast enough. I just updated my wife's Blackberry OS software for the first time in 8 months. My Pre updates every month, let alone new apps daily. I think Palm is doing a great job of constantly working to make webOS better and better. And why would they wait for the next gen phones? The Pre has as good of specs as any phone out there. It can handle GPU use as well as OS speed upgrades. The hardware isn't the problem, so they don't need to wait for new hardware. Were original Iphone users this whiny when Apple took much longer to make it better?
    No, it's the coders here that are doing a great job to make the pre better. And, I am sure her blackberry out performs the pre in many ways. And PLEASE stop comparing the Iphone launch to the pre's. This excuse was played out as soon as it became an argument point. That was several years ago. And saying it is ok to be very behind, because a competitor that was new to the phone front did it, is just assinine. Also,we should be whiny, and ****ed off. We have an absolute machine in our hands, that cleary should'nt of been launched at the time it was. I've had mine since launch, and every single improvment that is worth mentioning, has come from these guys here, every single one. So to them I say thanks, though to palm, I give a big ol' finger. I think it is a marketing ploy,following the iphones lead. Hold out to the next version, and they will but it for the extra features. And to me that pretty much tells the consumer to go F themselves.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by dragbug View Post
    This is just my opinion considering how slow things are progressing.
    Quote Originally Posted by fbcregan View Post
    How do you guys say Palm is moving slowly.
    I'm with fbcregan on this one, 100%.

    The Pre is far from perfect, but the evolution of WebOS in the relatively short time it has been on the market has been nothing short of astounding. Not only have they released numerous updates to fix a variety of problems, and add a variety of new features, but they have been actively recruiting high profile developers to aide in the process.

    Case in point, I believe I read that they recruited one of the top linux developers from ATI to assist in optimizing the GPU.



    As far as the original question, I do agree with dragbug. It won't just automatically fix everything. In fact, I suspect that the first release with GPU support won't fix anything at all, but simply make developing apps that use the GPU a possibility. Eventually, I think that the GPU support can, and probably will, fix most of the lag issues system wide by utilizing it properly to help render the entire interface, but that will take time. I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't see that until WebOS 2.0
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubb65 View Post
    I'm with fbcregan on this one, 100%.

    The Pre is far from perfect, but the evolution of WebOS in the relatively short time it has been on the market has been nothing short of astounding.
    Exactly what has evolved? Honest question. Tell me, what has evolved? Becuase I've had mine since launch day. So I am desperate to know.
  13. UF15's Avatar
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    #13  
    I bet we may never see the GUI of WebOS use the GPU. These are things like animations of dropdown menus or scrolling. WebOS would have to be rewritten to tell the GPU to handle these things instead of the CPU. That linux GPU guru they brought in is probably so they can at least allow access to the GPU for things like games.

    I think what Palm is relying on is the advancement of mobile CPU's. If they can eventually get a powerful enough CPU that can handle the basic animations of WebOS well, they have no need to use the GPU. So at this point, I think that is their plan and it is unrealistic to think they are going to have WebOS use the GPU for basic animations.

    Also, I was always under the belief that while the GPU would make things a bit more snappy, it's real benefit would be to make things more fluid and less choppy. I don't know how big of a net gain that would bring in speed performance.

    The biggest thing holding WebOS back is how slow javascript, html and css are. These things can be optimized, but we are looking at awhile before they can get the performance even close to native languages like the iPhone uses. Until then, we will be looking at tip calculators and stop watch applications.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    I bet we may never see the GUI of WebOS use the GPU. These are things like animations of dropdown menus or scrolling. WebOS would have to be rewritten to tell the GPU to handle these things instead of the CPU. That linux GPU guru they brought in is probably so they can at least allow access to the GPU for things like games.

    I think what Palm is relying on is the advancement of mobile CPU's. If they can eventually get a powerful enough CPU that can handle the basic animations of WebOS well, they have no need to use the GPU. So at this point, I think that is their plan and it is unrealistic to think they are going to have WebOS use the GPU for basic animations.

    Also, I was always under the belief that while the GPU would make things a bit more snappy, it's real benefit would be to make things more fluid and less choppy. I don't know how big of a net gain that would bring in speed performance.

    The biggest thing holding WebOS back is how slow javascript, html and css are. These things can be optimized, but we are looking at awhile before they can get the performance even close to native languages like the iPhone uses. Until then, we will be looking at tip calculators and stop watch applications.
    I bet you're wrong. In fact, Palm engineers have come out and discussed the benefits of using the GPU in CSS transforms and the like.
  15. spare's Avatar
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    #15  
    Slow is a relative term. To take it away from personal opinion (and loud vocal minorities), name phones that have or will improve more in a 6 month period. How about compared to phones released this year? Have or will the 3gs, hero, droid or other phones improve faster in 6 months? Honest questions.
  16. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #16  
    When you say lag and such. Are we talking about the 10 seconds it takes to open apps. I mean i know the whole point is to leave a bunch of apps open. Which I love. But at the same time its a pain when I do have to open it up that it takes like forever just to get the app really loaded. On top of that the app itself seems sluggish compared to other phone(iPhone primarily). My brother and I compared google maps. His opens up very snappy, while mine takes forever to get open. Even once it is opened it takes time to load stuff up, while his is getting through and pinpointing him fast. Mind you its at&t and i have good sprint service at my house. Will things like this be optimized? By offloading some of the graphical work(rendering maps?) to the gpu?

    The droid is also very smooth. So far I have no complaints with what I have messed around with that phone. It can multitask and it is very snappy in app opening, and i actually like the notifications method in that phone way better. I also wish the pre was in that form factor.
  17. spare's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    When you say lag and such. Are we talking about the 10 seconds it takes to open apps. I mean i know the whole point is to leave a bunch of apps open. Which I love. But at the same time its a pain when I do have to open it up that it takes like forever just to get the app really loaded. On top of that the app itself seems sluggish compared to other phone(iPhone primarily). My brother and I compared google maps. His opens up very snappy, while mine takes forever to get open. Even once it is opened it takes time to load stuff up, while his is getting through and pinpointing him fast. Mind you its at&t and i have good sprint service at my house. Will things like this be optimized? By offloading some of the graphical work(rendering maps?) to the gpu?

    The droid is also very smooth. So far I have no complaints with what I have messed around with that phone. It can multitask and it is very snappy in app opening, and i actually like the notifications method in that phone way better. I also wish the pre was in that form factor.
    Have you reboot lately? You could have apps that didn't close properly. Use Luna to do quick luna reboots when your pre gets slow.
  18. diomark's Avatar
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    #18  
    no - getting rid of memory leaks and excessive swapping will fix the lags..
    -mark
  19. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    Have you reboot lately? You could have apps that didn't close properly. Use Luna to do quick luna reboots when your pre gets slow.
    This is off fresh reboots. I love WebOS, but I wish it was snappier.
  20. dragbug's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    these assumptions are based on what knowledge ???
    My own! As I said, this was my opinion.
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