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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    You do realise that all the patches that are packaged up for use by WebOS Quick Install (a tool written by Jason) and Preware (a tool written by the WebOS Internals team, not by Jason) are actually written by a whole heap of different developers, and only a few of them are actually written by Jason?

    You also may not realise that the decision to use the open standard patch format for these tweaks and patches was made by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason), and the wiki in which these tweaks and patches were originally contributed is maintained by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason) and assistance to the authors of all these patches was done primarily by members of the WebOS Internals team in the #webos-internals IRC channel (not by Jason).

    You also may not realise that the AutoPatch technology which allows these patches to be turned into installable packages was created by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason).

    You also may not realise that the negotiations that allowed an open standard homebrew package format that supports themes and patches were led by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason, who was actually arguing against such a format at the start), and the servers which host all the packages, themes and patches in the feeds at preware.org were paid for, were set up by, and are maintained by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason).

    You also may not realise that the conception, design, implementation and maintenance of the Preware application is done by the WebOS Internals team (not by Jason).

    Don't get me wrong, Jason does great things with WebOS Quick Install, and he has worked hard to package up these patches as tweaks that can be applied easily with that tool, and he does have a lot of original work and effort in other things that WebOS Quick Install does. But don't make the mistake of thinking that the person who has done the front-end of one tool is responsible for everything behind it and other tools and infrastructure that he has made it compatible with.

    And we do know that Jason has not tried to take credit for anything that he has not done. He's a good guy and he and the WebOS Internals team collaborate well together.

    -- Rod
    If you're try really hard, you might be able to word that a bit more harshly. You might wanna work on your social skills. The guys were not intentionally trying to slight anyone (unlike you seemed to be doing).

    I recognize that Jason did not write all the patches, but he has been an INCREDIBLE asset to the webOS community. And he has never once hijacked someone's thread to have a mini-flame war with someone else (unlike you).

    (If you didn't get it, I found the REPEATED "not by Jason" comments (eight times in one post!?!?!) to be snarky and uncalled for.)
    Last edited by KnoxBNYC; 10/07/2009 at 09:19 AM.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by cagefighter View Post
    This is a serious question.

    How is Jason (1 guy) able to create all these tweaks that Palm can not (or will not)? It is obvious these are things people want for their Pre. Palm has many more resources, yet they turn out 1.2. Sure, it has some added features, but let's face it, it doesn't come close to the tweaks provided in QI.

    I'm not a programmer, so maybe there is something I am unaware of, but I am sure I am not the only one here wondering the same thing.

    Jason, you are the man! Next to WebOS, QI seems to be the core of the Pre's functionality.
    I agree with most of the above. I wondered why in the hell can people who appear to be NOT related to Palm. Fix what was missing from the Pre, I really wanted and needed text forwarding and thanks to WebOS Quick Install I now have it. If I waited for Palm to add it in an update who knows how long. But yet it "seems" like a simple fix to me. To the creator of text forwarding.......... THANK YOU!!!!!!


    Thanks to all that have helped make the Pre a better phone.


    James
  3. #23  
    Rod- Love PreWare, btw. Thanks for that!
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by geigs View Post
    Rod- Love PreWare, btw. Thanks for that!
    For the record, I love Preware too. And Preload. And fileCoaster. Those are the three that I have installed on my Pre (though Preware is actually the one I use the most now). I just don't think that loving one means dissing another.

    P.S. There are also three tweaks visible (not planned) in that ScreenCapture that were all installed using Preware (Add/Delete Launcher Pages, Battery %, and Date next to time). There's also a Jason product peaking from the bottom right of the screen.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by KnoxBNYC; 10/07/2009 at 09:51 AM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by KnoxBNYC View Post
    If you're try really hard, you might be able to word that a bit more harshly. You might wanna work on your social skills. The guys were not intentionally trying to slight anyone (unlike you seemed to be doing).

    I recognize that Jason did not write all the patches, but he has been an INCREDIBLE asset to the webOS community. And he has never once hijacked someone's thread to have a mini-flame war with someone else (unlike you).

    (If you didn't get it, I found the REPEATED "not by Jason" comments (eight times in one post!?!?!) to be snarky and uncalled for.)
    I would humbly disagree that he was trying to slight anyone. He was, in fact, trying to PREVENT anyone from being slighted. To say that the work of a group of people is attributed to a single person is frustrating. People have to give away credit enough in their "real jobs" and don't need to be diminished in doing something they love. I think that maybe the frustration peeked through, but he wasn't deliberately slighting or flaming, that I could tell. As with your post, it's just the opinion of one.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by urlmaker View Post
    I would humbly disagree that he was trying to slight anyone. He was, in fact, trying to PREVENT anyone from being slighted. To say that the work of a group of people is attributed to a single person is frustrating. People have to give away credit enough in their "real jobs" and don't need to be diminished in doing something they love. I think that maybe the frustration peeked through, but he wasn't deliberately slighting or flaming, that I could tell. As with your post, it's just the opinion of one.
    I agree that people are frequently under the misunderstanding that Jason wrote all these patches. And I'm all for people being shown the light on that. I just feel Rod got a bit nasty (repeating "not by Jason" EIGHT times in one message).

    I didn't mean that his post here was a flame. The flaming (MANY messages) that he did (even the "editor in chief" commented that he went too far) was in another thread:
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ml#post1957081
  7. #27  
    So I shouldnt send my water damaged phone to the magical Wizord of Oz that is Jason, and hes not a level 90 elite warrior, and he isnt at the end of the raimbow. Shocking ! Nonetheless thanks Jason for being a guy we can all blame and thank and credit then dis credit all in one forum Well Jay your a super guy and i just wanted to thank you and everyone else that is on here making my PRE a better phone ... Now get back to work and someone fix my lock issue everytime it idles. Just Kidding !! Thanks to all. The plam rep. that visits my store, thinks im his boss based on the info and stuff I get from this site. hes still afraid to let me tweak his company issued Palm. lol (Ps I wouldnt take credit if he let me tweak it.) ((bored in class))
  8. #28  
    This is the power of open source and collaboration. Each person can do a part, big or small, and it joins into a huge and powerful system to perform a goal. The "Wouldn't it be cool if we could..." discussions of June are now the "Yeah, you can do that automatically with..." comments of October.

    A bunch of developers and hackers (in the good sense of the word) really rockin' out on the WebOS platform. Kudos to all involved.
    Last edited by sacherjj; 10/07/2009 at 01:26 PM.
    Your Pre wants Word Whirl from the App Catalog.

    It told me.
  9. #29  
    I agree with the fact that having all of the tweaks available pre-installed and ACTIVATED by Palm would not be a good thing. But like someone said, many of these things are already in the code written by palm and just commented out or something along those lines it sounds like. It WOULD have been nice however to have a lot of these options available from the start.

    The best example of this is the LED notifications. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out why they spent all the time/effort to write the code for this functionality...and then put some "//" in front of it so it didnt work???
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jonaddis84 View Post
    I agree with the fact that having all of the tweaks available pre-installed and ACTIVATED by Palm would not be a good thing. But like someone said, many of these things are already in the code written by palm and just commented out or something along those lines it sounds like. It WOULD have been nice however to have a lot of these options available from the start.

    The best example of this is the LED notifications. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out why they spent all the time/effort to write the code for this functionality...and then put some "//" in front of it so it didnt work???
    It could really be something that they are planning on doing in the future. Maybe the Pixie is going to run the exact same webos version as we are for a time being...the pixie has no center button, maybe the coding would have to be differant for the center light on it...IDK but remember all we get to see is the map of our "city", Palm is working on the Map of the "World" so to speak.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by jonaddis84 View Post
    The best example of this is the LED notifications. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out why they spent all the time/effort to write the code for this functionality...and then put some "//" in front of it so it didnt work???
    Sometimes a feature is complete but the tests for it are not.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cagefighter View Post
    This is a serious question.

    How is Jason (1 guy) able to create all these tweaks that Palm can not (or will not)? It is obvious these are things people want for their Pre. Palm has many more resources, yet they turn out 1.2. Sure, it has some added features, but let's face it, it doesn't come close to the tweaks provided in QI.

    I'm not a programmer, so maybe there is something I am unaware of, but I am sure I am not the only one here wondering the same thing.

    Jason, you are the man! Next to WebOS, QI seems to be the core of the Pre's functionality.
    Jason is a excellent member of this community and I don't want to diminish any thoughts about him, but I would like to clarify that nearly all "tweaks" are created by the WebOS-Internals community and the people here at PreCentral. What Jason does is compile all the work of these people into a single application that works. He is not the only one behind every project of his.

    I agree that his contributions to the Pre demographic has been overwhelming though.


    If I helped you or you have downloaded one of my files,
    then least you could do is click the "Thanks" button.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssul View Post
    Jason is a excellent member of this community and I don't want to diminish any thoughts about him, but I would like to clarify that nearly all "tweaks" are created by the WebOS-Internals community and the people here at PreCentral. What Jason does is compile all the work of these people into a single application that works.
    Umm, I feel I should point out only recently were the patch collected from across the web and added to the WebOS-Internals autopatch feed (due to an oversight at the time, no credits were given to the original patch authors, so all appear done by WebOS-Internals). I've personally contributed 6 patches to the autopatch feed (and have several WOSQI-only ones). I done so much to comply with WebOS-Internals standardization requests and to make is seem like I just rip them off is far from the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssul View Post
    He is not the only one behind every project of his.
    If are only talking about WOSQI with the patches added, then I agree, but the rest of WebOS Quick Install (and there's more to it than you'd think) was coded by me. And all my other projects (Internalz, FileMgr Service, WebOS Repair Utility, etc.) we all coded solo by me, not anyone at WebOS-Internals.


    Sorry, just felt I needed to get that off my chest and hopefully clear a few things up
    Last edited by Jason Robitaille; 10/07/2009 at 04:41 PM.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    Umm, I feel I should point out only recently were the patch collected from across the web and added to the WebOS-Internals autopatch feed (due to an oversight at the time, no credits were given to the original patch authors, so all appear done by WebOS-Internals). I've personally contributed 6 patches to the autopatch feed (and have several WOSQI-only tweaks). I done so much to comply with WebOS-Internals requests and to make is seem like I just rip them off is far from the truth.


    If are only talking about WOSQI with the patches added, then I agree, but the rest of WebOS Quick Install (and there's more to it than you'd think) was coded by me. And all my other projects (Internalz, FileMgr Service, WebOS Repair Utility, etc.) we all coded solo by me, not anyone at WebOS-Internals.


    Sorry if I come off a bit harsh, but I've been getting flack from everyone, on all side, and had to say that
    I want to make it clear that there should be no flack coming to Jason from webos-internals, and in my opinion nor should he be getting flack from anyone else. We know that he is just as frustrated with these misconceptions as we are.

    Jason has never taken credit where it is not due. Jason has never taken code from anywhere he shouldn't. Jason has always done the right thing for the community. Jason is a very experienced independent developer in his own right and has created a number of very significant tools for the Pre.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssul View Post
    Jason is a excellent member of this community and I don't want to diminish any thoughts about him, but I would like to clarify that nearly all "tweaks" are created by the WebOS-Internals community and the people here at PreCentral. What Jason does is compile all the work of these people into a single application that works. He is not the only one behind every project of his.
    Jason is the sole developer of a number of significant tools, including WebOS Quick Install.

    Just like Preware collates the packages that other authors develop, both Preware and WebOS Quick Install collate the patches that other authors develop (with one of those authors being Jason himself for some of the patches).

    The key thing is passing through the credit for the things that are being collated, and Jason and WebOS Internals are working together to make sure this happens for patches. Neither group has ever tried to take credit for things they didn't do, the issue is that the credit for the collated things has not been clear enough and end-users have begun to have misconceptions about the authorship.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals
  16. #36  
    I think we need an APP OFF!! each group develops a zombie themed FPS and I will be the judge....Okay maybe not, but it was worth a try! This thread should get re-titled though, as it is clear that there are MANY FANTASTIC PEOPLE WHO MAKE USING MY PRE BETTER EVERYDAY. Thanks to each and everyone of you!!!
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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    #37  
    I get this question asked a lot being involved in both commercial and opensource software projects and have a simple answer:

    Who do you call for support when the feature doesnt work, need training, or functionality is misunderstood. What about litigation expenses (feature caused me financial hardship)? SOX audits? etc.

    --

    Like with all the opensource projects how much time do users collectively spend trying to support themselves? Anyone ever see "RTFM" mentioned in IRC/Forums when asking about linux? Wouldnt it be nice for Palm to reply "RTFM" on exchange configuration or say they are busy studying for exams and will fix ActiveSync in a couple of weeks?

    Think about how many phone calls Palm / Sprint / Bell get in a day over features they already have? This all comes with cost

    --

    I am deeply involved in a large opensource project and thankfully I really have no obligation to answer the emails that stream in over configuration / bugs / understanding. I am also very thankful that there are individuals who volunteer their time to help answer those questions in forums and lists on my behalf.
    Last edited by zonyl; 10/07/2009 at 05:18 PM.
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by CheshireFrog View Post
    Palm has an internal process for making changes to the WebOS that goes way beyond just coding. First they have to decide what changes to include in any particular release. At some point the release will be locked down and no more changes will be allowed. Next, the developers will code the changes. The prerelease is then handed off to QA, who will test to make sure the changes don't break anything or conflict with existing functionality. If QA finds problems they send the release back to dev for resolution. This back and forth goes on until QA passes the release. Then Tech Writers have to document the changes before it can be released to market.
    I work with large projects and understand this - but I'm still scratching my head how they missed Exchange 2007 compatibility so badly with 1.2.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by CheshireFrog View Post
    All in all, we're very fortunate that Palm fosters the dev community and doesn't take steps to prevent homebrew development from taking place.
    Agreed. Palm has fostered the environment where developers can work and make my Pre something more than stock, and that has made my Pre experience much better. My hat's off to Palm and all you developers for this.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by abhinandanjain View Post
    @cagefighter

    I'm sure Palm can do a lot (or all) of these things, since a few of them are also lines of codes that are already there in the WebOS core but commented out. It's just that they cannot release something new without testing - the liability due to any mass failure will be huge.

    Here, you do the tweaks at your own risk! And kudos that Palm, unlike Apple, allows that!

    That being said, a big thanks to the WebOS Internals and Precentral community!
    One thing I know I've read (and experienced) that no one's queued in on:

    One of those tweaks is "landscape email" - it's actually a patch to two different files - one used for reading, one used for composing. When the patch is (well, "was" in 1.1) installed in the composing file, it breaks replies. Regular email composition continues to work fine but if you attempt to "reply" to an email, it breaks it.

    As others have said - some of these tweaks/patches aren't fully tested or may introduce bugs that the Palm webOS development team hasn't resolved.
    I take pictures both under water and above. I talk about a bunch of stuff.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by ericdives View Post
    One thing I know I've read (and experienced) that no one's queued in on:

    One of those tweaks is "landscape email" - it's actually a patch to two different files - one used for reading, one used for composing. When the patch is (well, "was" in 1.1) installed in the composing file, it breaks replies. Regular email composition continues to work fine but if you attempt to "reply" to an email, it breaks it.
    Breaks it how? I have the landscape email patch and it works fine. I just sent myself an email from one of my accounts to another. Opened it up with the Pre and replied from the Pre without any trouble.

    I'm using WebOS 1.21. I may have downloaded the Landscape email patch via Preware, I'm not sure....but I see no problems with it.
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